weapons

[dave54]

http://www.doi.gov/issues/Final%20Rule.pdf

This thread may start a flame war!   

How many out there carry a firearm (or have ever carried a firearm) on your bike?

I rarely do.  I could count on one hand and have fingers left over.  But it is nice to know that I no longer must worry about crossing into a National Park or National Wildlife Refuge.

[ScottM]

Interesting ruling change.  Good to know.

Nope, never carried any sort of weapon, never felt the need to, and have never run into any situation where a weapon would have been useful.

Now, what sort of gun would an ultralight bikepacker carry?  What's the lightest titanium pistol?   

[dave54]

...Now, what sort of gun would an ultralight bikepacker carry?  What's the lightest titanium pistol?...

Several 'backpacker' guns are on the market, but they all have a common problem -- a handgun with sufficient stopping power and very lightweight = bad recoil.  Statistically, 98% of all successful personal defense use of a handgun occurs at less than 7 yards and no more than three rounds fired.  The recoil from an above described handgun would mean you would get 1 shot, then you would have to reacquire target to fire a 2nd time.  The threat would be upon you before you could reacquire target.  It would require a LOT of practice to reliably do a double tap.  Or have a ported barrel, which reduces ballistic performance...

[SandLizrd]

Good decision!  It's about time the feds had a reality check!

When in the wilderness, we have to take care of ourselves.  Hopefully you have a first aid kit.  And I probably have a pistol too. I've been held up at gunpoint and didn't like it very much.

The beauty of this rule is we can treat the law as common sense - until now the feds were off on their own legal planet, where crossing an unmarked boundary meant we were not allowed to protect ourselves?  You gonna throw rocks at a bear, or a two-legged critter?

You might not agree but this is the land of the free.  With a little training and a non-felony record we're allowed to protect ourselves almost as well as the bad guys now.  Remember, no sign stating "guns not allowed" ever stopped a criminal unless it fell and bumped 'em on the head

[ScottM]

When in the wilderness, we have to take care of ourselves.  Hopefully you have a first aid kit.  And I probably have a pistol too. I've been held up at gunpoint and didn't like it very much.

I suppose not.  Just curious, was this on a trail, or in a city?

[AZTtripper]

For starters I guess I just don't like guns and I admit I don't travel in Grizzly country. The main thing here in AZ would be along the border  and a potential run in with smugglers. I can't imagine any thing that would work. What could you possible carry that would help if you ran into AK toting smugglers. The one time that I was attacked by a wild critter I am glad I didn't have a gun I might have shot myself in the foot trying to the the dam thing off of the end of my sleeping bag.

[Eric]

I have a bear-a-noid friend who has a titanium .44. I've never shot it but it only weighs a pound. The nice thing is that you can just shoot yourself if it really gets thick.

I've never carried a gun, but its fairly common knowledge that a .44 is the minimum or better than nothing if you're going to shoot a bear, but in that case I'd rather have a pump 12 gage with magnum slugs.  Best to just avoid the situation all together...

pepper spray is good piece of mind.

[dave54]

... but its fairly common knowledge that a .44 is the minimum or better than nothing if you're going to shoot a bear...

For grizz, maybe.  Grizz have been taken with far smaller calibers.

Black bears have been killed with a .22.  In fact, .22 is the weapon of choice for black bear poachers who want as silent a shot as possible.

If the sole reason for a weapon is a bear, then bear bangers might be a better choice.  Several different manufacturers, but all are basically the same thing -- a pen-type flashbang flare.  Google for 'bear banger'.

You want to deter the attack if possible.  No sense killing anything if you don't have to.

[DaveC]

I'm of the opinion that common sense and awareness obviates the need for a firearm for personal safety in the woods.  AK may be a different story, but I've yet to feel the need to carry spray in MT. 

I like my guns, but they stay in the house unless I'm hunting or shooting paper.

[Eric]

Dave 54 - I'm not a gun person so am just sharing what I generally hear when the conversation of bears and handguns comes up in AK.

Anyway - DaveC summed up my view pretty well in his first sentence.
Cheers

[chrisx]

 You don´t need a gun in the woods, unless you have a premeditated urge to kill something.  If your caught killing a grizzly bear, more than likely you will get jail time.  No handgun is a good weapon against a grizzly bear.  A 12 gage and a slug works.  Many a person  has unnecessarily  emptied a 44 into a charging grizzly, and been killed by a now angry bear for doing so.  Sometimes the bear dies of the wounds later, sometimes not.  A 44 shell will not penetrate the thick skull of a adult grizzly.  Black bears leave people alone.  It takes a lot to get a black bear to attack.  A hand gun can kill a bear with a shoot through an open mouth, at an upward angel, so the bullet penetrates the brain.  Few people can do that with a trembling hand

 

Don´t feed bears human food, a feed bear is a dead bear.

bears and other carnivores hate the smell of smoke.

burn all food trash

don´t run from a bear stand still and talk in a confident voice

carry bear mace, (different chemical than people mace.)

I,ve used a zippo to light a very dry tree branch and touch it to a grizzly bears nose, (works with a trembling hand).

As a last resort hold a rock in the bears mouth as it tries to bite you, they have very small brains and think your to hard to bite.

Make plenty of noise as you travel through the woods,  bears will hear you long before you see them. a surprised bear may attack, a for warned bear may seek privacy.

The United States Forest Service has much useful info on forests.

If you fear wild animals, and think you need a gun in the woods, go back to your bar stool.

I fear city slickers and may buy a gun before I go downtown.  I walk the forest alone with no weapon, and feel safe. 

Find people with experience in the out doors to travel with.  If you think guns are necessary for protection against wild animals,  you have no experience in the woods. 

EXTINCT IS FOREVER 200 years ago 150,000 grizzly bears roamed North America.  30 years ago less than 200 roamed. 

[timmy_saint]

Up here (in Canada) we're not allowed any firearms in our National Parks. In Jasper, I regularly run into at least a bear-per-two-weeks riding in the Backcountry. Have yet to feel the need to carry a weapon, and in the entire history of the park (some one-hundred plus years) I believe we've had 2 fatalities. As for hooligans... I was chased by a beagle, once, riding in the Maritimes. He T-boned my road bike (!)

[Mike Brown]

If I needed to hunt for my food, I'd carry a gun. 
I go into the woods in order to be at peace.  Guns don't fit into that equation.
I could see carrying personal  defense spray against humans, although I don't.
Regarding predators, this may sound naive, but I've always said that if a large predator eats me, it's just a very small equalizing of the scales in man vs. nature. 
And yes, I am a hippe tree hugging pacifist.

[Rob]

You guys may want to consider one of these.



http://www.deltacycle.com/product.php?g=1

It's incredibly loud.  I would think it would scare the hell out of a bear or mountain lion.  I use one for commuting and it scares the crap out of attacking dogs(tried it once already )

Imagine you are coming up on a bear and you blast this thing, it's almost as loud as a train horn(maybe).  That bear is going to bolt.