Which Water Filter/Purifier??

[stumpbumper]

Newbie question here.

I am sure this has been covered before but in going back through posts of the past I did not have a lot of luck finding information on the optimum water filter/purifier for bikepacking.  I have a dip & sip bottle from Katadyn called the Exstream XR and have used it with complete satisfaction when hiking in country where lakes and streams are convenient.

I also have a SteriPEN and have used it in Alaska where the water contains little to no sediment but since some of the streams in areas I will be bikepacking can and often do contain a lot of it, the SteriPEN is not the system to use there.   I know I can filter the water through a cotton neckerchief or coffee filter prior to using it but that's an extremely slow way to fill a 3-liter hydration bladder.

I am sure there are better ways to carry water when bikepacking but unless someone changes my mind I will be using the same Deuter pack with hydration bladder that I use for general mountain biking.  I want to buy a unit that filters and purifies water like the Exstream XR I already have but ls more suitable for filling the hydration bladder in my backpack.  And of course, it would be nice to have a unit that's fairly light and compact.

Any and all suggestions and recommendations would be greatly appreciated.
   

[Marshal]

One way that works pretty good is to put a quick disconnect on your badder hose with the opposite end on your filter output hose

(various Katadyn or MSR models seem to be favored by the bikepacking crowd).  

And while not as nice as the single purify/filter system you asked for, you can always add chem. treatment drops to filtered water for ‘purification’.  When I use my filter I squeeze the appropriate number of drops into the open quick disconnect then plug in the filter and pump away.  Filter and purification—without opening the bladder or sometimes without even taking off my pack.  Of course with any chem. method there is an inherent dwell time.

[Done]

Aquamira drops. Easy, quick, and light. Don't confuse Aquamira with iodine drops or other chemical treatments--it's very different stuff. Very popular with ultra-light backpackers.

http://www.aquamira.com/consumer/aquamira-water-treatment-drops/

[Slowerthensnot]

I use thi: great for groups or when you have to fill alot of bottles....

http://cascadedesigns.com/msr/water-treatment-and-hydration/basecamp-water-treatment-and-hydration/autoflow-gravity-filter/product

And then i'm a real big fan of these!

http://www.google.com/search?q=micropur+mp1&hl=en&safe=off&rlz=1C1CHMZ_enUS349US350&prmd=ivns&source=univ&tbs=shop:1&tbo=u&sa=X&ei=J_JeTeeoFsyftwfysvmNDA&ved=0CD4QrQQ&biw=1024&bih=677

[wdlandparker]

I second the Katydyn tablets, used them for a straight month with no issues. Not that I know of at least...

[WWOOF]

does anyone have experience/opinions of the Sawyer in line filters? Their site says that they are good for 1 million gallons with adequate care and backwashing, but are they a good choice for bikepacking?

[Done]

Tablets are slow. See: http://www.katadyn.com/usen/technical-support/micropur-support/chemical-water-treatment/
30 minutes to 4 hours to kill cysts (giardia).

Aquamira is faster: http://www.mcnett.com/Aquamira-Water-Treatment-Drops-P208.aspx
15-30 minutes to kill EVERYTHING.

I've had giardiasis before, and it's no fun at all. Rather than wait hours for water, or rush it and risk getting sick, I think that Aquamira is a decent compromise. Fast, light, and safe. Pumps are good too, but heavy and somewhat finicky.

[pro_out]

Tablets are slow. See: http://www.katadyn.com/usen/technical-support/micropur-support/chemical-water-treatment/
30 minutes to 4 hours to kill cysts (giardia).

Aquamira is faster: http://www.mcnett.com/Aquamira-Water-Treatment-Drops-P208.aspx
15-30 minutes to kill EVERYTHING.

I've had giardiasis before, and it's no fun at all. Rather than wait hours for water, or rush it and risk getting sick, I think that Aquamira is a decent compromise. Fast, light, and safe. Pumps are good too, but heavy and somewhat finicky.

First, I am making no judgment on the effectiveness of Aquamira Drops, just sharing some things I have learned and read on backpackinglight.com and other sites.

I have had giardiasis after a 5 day solo backpacking/flyfishing trip into the Weminuche Wilderness while using Aquamira drops. Did the drops fail? was it cross contamination? was it ? You just never know.

 Some things I learned after that trip. All that Aquamira states about the drops is they are a water treatment (not purifier) that kills odor killing bacteria(nothing else) and enhances the taste of stored potable water. On the other hand Aquamira Tablets(katadyn mircopur tablets also) are a lightweight powerful... purifier.. killing bacteria,viruses and cyst ...EPA registered.
 Some on BPL suggest that for the drops to be as potent  as the tablets you have to triple the dosage and still adhere to the tablet suggested dwell times which range from 30 min for clear 68 degree water to 4 hours for 39 degree dirty water, others just  go with the 30 min rule and have had no problems.
  However ,most do concur that if you do not pre mix parts A&B for 5 min. you might as well not use it. Some pre mix per batch,some for the day others have pre mixed for several days.
 But then again, I know of people that never treat ( Colorado up high) water and have had no issues.
Said all of that to say this, let your conscious or GI tract be your guide. As for me now I use Aquamira or Micropur tablets for there simplicity and adhere to the 30 min rule.
If you want to go fast & light just dip and go. Most water cooties will not get you for 7-14 days after ingestion

[stumpbumper]

I just returned from my local, friendly backpacking store where I took the excellent advice given to me on this thread and here is what I ended up with.

Quick-connect valve installed in my hydration pack hose (with a slight hitch).  The bladder hose of my beloved Deuter pack is quite a bit larger in diameter than the hose on Camelbak bladders and we could not find a fitting that would work on it.  So, I bought a new 3-liter Camelbak "Hydrotanium Reservoir", installed a valve from Katadyn and it works perfectly in my Deuter.

We had every filter in the store out for comparison and I went with the MSR Miniworks EX Microfilter.  I know what you guys are thinking--too big and too heavy but I was sold by a number of its features including an easy to clean ceramic filter, a great pre-filter design and greater mechanical advantage in the pump handle made it easiest to squeeze water through.  So, I'll lose a few ounces of body weight and live happily ever after with my heavy old water filter.

Also bought two-bottle pack of Aquamira water treatment drops.

I appreciate the advice guys.        

[Michael_S]

I am very happy with the MSR Sweetwater which works just like the one you bought. The pumping action is easy to operate and it seems to be faster than other Mfgers systems from watching friends pump on trips or the other purifiers I've had. Getting clean water is very important and I'm a little hesitant to use the drops or tablets myself.

~Mike

[stumpbumper]

Another feature I like about the MSR filter I bought it it is quick and easy to totally disassemble with no tools. That's handy for general maintenance such as occasional lubrication of the rubber O-ring of the piston (with vaseline or lip balm) and also for removing a grain of sand or other obstruction that's clogging up the works.

One thing I am still unclear on is when to use the Aquamira drops.  As I understand, the MSR unit filters out bad guys as small as bacteria but not viruses.  During early 2010 I was on the Iditarod trail in Alaska and the closest civilization to where we were camping was an Eskimo villiage about 40 miles away.  The streams were crystal clear.  Even so, I zapped every bottle of water with my SteriPEN, before it passed through the dip & sip bottle I mentioned in my original post.  Considering where I was that was probably extreme overkill but I'd rather be too safe than sorry.  So question is, what determines when you guys use Aquamira?  I'd rather not add another chemical to my already chemical-saturated body unless absolutely necessary and would prefer to just keep it on hand for use only when absolutely necessary.  So do you guys use it all the time or just when know for certain a hog farm or something is 100 yards upstream?

       

[Done]

Pro_out, I'm not sure where you read that Aquamira doesn't kill giardia, but here's some of the information that I used when making my decision on how to treat my water:

http://www.aquamira.com/bpl_2_efficacy-of-water.pdf
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/aquamira_mcnett.html

It appears that several reputable studies have concluded that Aquamira kills bacteria and protozoa (giardia) just fine, but that it takes the EPA some time to approve marketing claims.

I follow the directions in the package to the T. No pre-mixing, in-water mixing, or other weird stuff. I wait 30 minutes before drinking, which is the long side of what's recommended. And I double the dose if the water seems to contain extra organic debris. For really nasty water (the only stuff available in the desert sometimes), I filter it first and then blast it with Aquamira!

FYI, Aquamira is chlorine dioxide, which is not bad stuff--and doesn't actually contain chlorine. Check it out: http://aquamira.com/consumer/aquamira-water-treatment-drops/Aquamira%20WTD%20FAQs.pdf

Cheers,
Toby

[pro_out]

Toby, reading my post again, I don't see where I said Aquamira does not kill giardia.
  read your last link again, which is specific to Aquamira Drops #1 mentions bacteria #5 mentions kills bacteria and enhances taste #7 mentions kill  bacteria, no mention of cyst, giardia or viruses in any of those 10.
  On Aquamiras website they refer to Aquamira Drops as a water treatment and the only thing they mention it kills is bacteria and that it enhances the taste of treated water.
  However when you start looking at Aquamira Tablets the story changes They refer to the Tablets as a purifier and that it does as you put "KILLS EVERYTHING", but only with the longer dwell times.
 As for your first and second link I believe them to be correct but only if you are using Aquamira in the Tablet form/strength.
Toby FYI, I knew Aquamira was chlorine dioxide, I knew it was not bad stuff, I knew it doesn't contain chlorine and I had already checked the link.
 There is a grey cloud around the drops. The only difference is the tablets are a more powerful dose. Here is one of the links on the subject    http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=19236   

Ride on, Tony

[Done]

Looks like we read the same information very differently, Tony. No worries, we both have approaches that work for us--so at least nobody is going to die of thirst!

Cheers,
Toby

[WWOOF]

Don't know if yall are into chemistry, so here's some info on chlorine dioxide.  Keep in mind that few chemical reactions run to 100% completion in reality and that some of the toxic reactants are likely to be in the final product in minute quantities. Whether that bother's you or not is your decision.

the MSDS
http://www.haloxtech.com/pdf/MSDS-Chlorinedioxide(ClO2)-540ppm.pdf

wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorine_dioxide

[Done]

I have taken to drinking pure rain water and distilled grain alcohol in order to maintain the purity of my precious bodily fluids.

Dr. Strangelove, Or: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Love The Bomb AQUAMIRA

Ripper: Mandrake?
Mandrake: Yes, Jack?
Ripper: Have you ever seen a Commie drink a glass of water?
Mandrake: Well, I can't say I have.
Ripper: Vodka, that's what they drink, isn't it? Never water?
Mandrake: Well, I-I believe that's what they drink, Jack, yes.
Ripper: On no account will a Commie ever drink water, and not without good reason.
Mandrake: Oh, eh, yes. I, uhm, can't quite see what you're getting at, Jack.
Ripper: Water, that's what I'm getting at, water. Mandrake, water is the source of all life. Seven-tenths of this earth's surface is water. Why, do you realize that seventy percent of you is water?
Mandrake: Uh, uh, Good Lord!
Ripper: And as human beings, you and I need fresh, pure water to replenish our precious bodily fluids.
Mandrake: Yes. (he begins to chuckle nervously)
Ripper: Are you beginning to understand?
Mandrake: Yes. (more laughter)
Ripper: Mandrake. Mandrake, have you never wondered why I drink only distilled water, or rain water, and only pure-grain alcohol?
Mandrake: Well, it did occur to me, Jack, yes.
Ripper: Have you ever heard of a thing called fluoridation AQUAMIRA. Fluoridation TREATMENT of water?
Mandrake: Uh? Yes, I-I have heard of that, Jack, yes. Yes.
Ripper: Well, do you know what it is?
Mandrake: No, no I don't know what it is, no.
Ripper: Do you realize that fluoridation AQUAMIRA is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous Communist plot we have ever had to face?

My apologies to Stanley Kubric.

 

[stumpbumper]

Now that you guys have come to some agreement, please answer my final question.  As I understand, a good filter eliminates everything but viruses and while the latter is a concern when traveling in other countries such as Africa, I am told that we need not worry about them here unless the stream is near a city or village.

So assuming that you guys use a filiter and Aquamira or another such product in your water, do you do it all the time or just when you are close to civilization?  Or do you forego the filter to eliminate weight and use only a purifying additive in your water?  I ask these questions because I don't relish the thought of drinking chemical-laced water except when absolutely necessary.

Many thanks.    

[aaron w]

Water treatment in my experience can get a bit confusing.  I've wondered why the treatment time on Aquamira drops is so short.  The conclusion I've come to (which may be incorrect) is that with suggested dose and treatment time for Aquamira drops you will not kill cryptosporidium cysts.  The treatment time for Aquamira is short because it doesn't claim to be able to kill crypto.

When using drops or tabs or whatever what we are waiting on is for the chemical to penetrate cysts.  The thicker the wall of the cyst, the more difficult it is to penetrate.  And I believe of the various cysts that we are concerned about, crypto is the thickest walled and the most difficult to kill.  If I'm not mistaken, Aquamira drops don't claim to be able to kill crypto, hence the short wait time.  

Iodine also has a very short wait time.  But take a look at modern packaging on iodine tabs and it clearly states that iodine has been shown not to be effective against crypto.

So if aquamira drops at recommended dose and time don't kill crypto why aren't people getting sick?  I think think it may be that crypto simply isn't present in a lot of the water we are treating.  

If anyone knows otherwise, please chime in and continue my education!

[Done]

Now that you guys have come to some agreement, please answer my final question.  As I understand, a good filter eliminates everything but viruses and while the latter is a concern when traveling in other countries such as Africa, I am told that we need not worry about them here unless the stream is near a city or village.

So assuming that you guys use a filter and Aquamira or another such product in your water, do you do it all the time or just when you are close to civilization?  Or do you forgo the filter to eliminate weight and use only a purifying additive in your water?  I ask these questions because I don't relish the thought of drinking chemical-laced water except when absolutely necessary.

Many thanks.    

I treat my water with Aquamira, and nothing else--and it doesn't really matter how far from civilization I am (unless I can see the source of a deep-water spring). It has been proven in studies to be effective against protozoa and bacteria. The chemicals are not dangerous, at least not any worse than what you find in tap water. It may not be perfect, but I believe that there's nothing more effective, less dangerous, or lightweight.

But at this point, you probably need to do your own research and draw you own conclusions. As you can see in the forum, two thoughtful people can read the same articles and come to very different decisions. There are zillions of unsubstantiated opinions posted in forums, and only so many scientific studies--so take your pick.  FYI, filters have a whole set of issues too, other than being heavy (for example, they can crack internally, get colonized, etc.) For whatever it's worth though, I think that you're unlikely to get sick in North America if you filter or treat your water--especially if you faithfully follow the instructions for whatever system you choose.

[Done]

So if aquamira drops at recommended dose and time don't kill crypto why aren't people getting sick?  I think think it may be that crypto simply isn't present in a lot of the water we are treating.

From what I understand, crypto is indeed pretty rare in the mountains.