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  Topic Name: AZT north-to-south how to access? on: December 15, 2011, 08:53:40 AM
whmbraun


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« on: December 15, 2011, 08:53:40 AM »

Hi,

We are planning on biking the AZT next fall (there's 4 of us) from the Utah border to the Mexican border. We have 4 weeks and from what I have read that should be enough. If not we can always just go to Phoenix. I have read the stuff on the azt-org web site and have become a member too but I do have a basic question as how to best get to the northern access point on the Utah border.

We will be flying in to Phoenix from Germany and I'm not clear on how best to proceed from there.

I realize there are shuttle services that will take you from Phoenix to the southern trailhead and there's also services that will shuttle you to the northern trailhead if you're already up north but how will 4 guys plus mountain bikes best get up north? A combination of public transport and shuttle service?

Any ideas or hints would be very welcome.

Thanks,
Wolfgang
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  Topic Name: AZT north-to-south how to access? Reply #1 on: December 15, 2011, 09:25:58 AM
AZTtripper
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« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2011, 09:25:58 AM »

Wolfgang

4 weeks should give you plenty of time. Depending on how much of the single track you follow and rate of travel of course. Moving slow I have ridden the 800 version in about that time frame.

As to getting to your starting point. I found this http://www.flagstaff.com/transportation they cover the Phx to Flag portion but only seem to go to the South Rim. At least on the regular schedule. You might be able to get them to take you to the state line.

Another option might be to rent a van and find someone local willing to drive it and return it. I can't make any promises and I don't have a van. But if it works out that you need to go that route let me know maybe we can work something out. Not sure how pricey it will get using an existing service verses renting and reimbursing a driver. Not looking to cash in on fellow bikepackers I would just need you to my cover expenses. I am in Tucson so closer to the other end, maybe some one in Flag of Phx will chime in.
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  Topic Name: AZT north-to-south how to access? Reply #2 on: December 15, 2011, 10:38:26 AM
whmbraun


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« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2011, 10:38:26 AM »

Hi AZTripper,

Thank you for your quick reply. I will check with the guys in Flagstaff. And of course, if we should be able to work sth. out with a private person, we would be more than happy to pay for that service too :-) The problem in that case will most likely be that we'd be pretty much dependent on that person's available time, most likely a weekend. And that, in turn, means we'd have to book the flights accordingly, with enough time to make the necessary purchases of food etc. before we leave Phoenix. Not a problem really, I'm only trying to find the right sequence of doing things... ;-)

Wolfgang
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  Topic Name: AZT north-to-south how to access? Reply #3 on: December 15, 2011, 05:08:16 PM
ImAFred

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« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2011, 05:08:16 PM »

Maybe look into flying into Las Vegas, NV (Int. airport) and getting a ride from there....to the north end.
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I dig dirt!

  Topic Name: AZT north-to-south how to access? Reply #4 on: December 16, 2011, 12:07:02 AM
whmbraun


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« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2011, 12:07:02 AM »

Hi ImaFred,

Thought about that but it would mean that we'd either have to fly back from Phoenix, which would be more expensive or else we'd have an even worse logistics problem at the end of the trip. That's why I believe it's a better idea to bike towards the airport we're going to fly back from rather than away from it. But thanks for the idea anyway!

Wolfgang
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  Topic Name: AZT north-to-south how to access? Reply #5 on: December 16, 2011, 04:46:25 AM
AZTtripper
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« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2011, 04:46:25 AM »

I know there is a shuttle service that connects the South and North rims. It's not that far out of the way to the State line. Even if you have to get dropped off south of there at Jacob Lake and ride the Kaibab route North to get started. I should think it would be better to start up at Jacob Lake and mostly coast down on dirt roads. The other option of having them drop you at the bottom of House Rock Valley road means a long slog up a sandy road.

I know a couple of years ago a group of N to S riders got a ride with a mountain biker out of Page. Not sure how they found him though. Maybe try posting something at http://forums.mtbr.com/arizona/ that way your hitting up riders from across the state even if they don't bikepack.
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  Topic Name: AZT north-to-south how to access? Reply #6 on: December 16, 2011, 10:36:34 AM
whmbraun


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« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2011, 10:36:34 AM »

I have emailed arizonshuttle.com in Flagstaff yesterday but haven't got a reply yet but it seems that getting to Flagstaff is painless and quite cheap even with a bike. I'll find out about the missing link sooner or later and will post it then so others can maybe save some time.

I have also been pondering over your last post and here is what I understand so far (using the maps and guides I have):

  • ...it would be better to start up at Jacob Lake and mostly coast down on dirt roads.
    Coasting down from Jacob Lake means using BLM 1065 (House Rock Valley Road) to where it meets BLM 1025 (Winter Road) and then turn back up again in a kind of loop following the official AZT right? My question would be "is it worth it?" or would you think we might as well start going south from Jacob Lake right away?
  • The other option of having them drop you at the bottom of House Rock Valley road means a long slog up a sandy road.
    By this you mean getting dropped off at the stateline trailhead (This would also be accessible from the north (dirt road about 10 miles from the 89)? If so, the "long slog" would be the switchbacks up Buckskin Mountain (the original AZT as I understand it) or backing up BLM 1065 through Coyote Wash?

I would tend to go all the way from the stateline but not if it means many hours of pushing bike.

Let me know if I'm asking too many questions but nothing beats getting one's hands on someone who's been there and done it ;-)
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  Topic Name: AZT north-to-south how to access? Reply #7 on: December 17, 2011, 02:36:20 AM
AZTtripper
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« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2011, 02:36:20 AM »

Wolfgang

I'm Tim by the way and I will do my best to answer your questions and help out any way I can. I have done the AZT twice so I do know something about it.

To give you a lay of the land idea. On the highway 89a, that's the one in AZ that leads up to Jacob Lake or out to the North Rim. You drive across I wide flat plain, at the western edge of this plain House Rock Valley road heads north to the state line (30 miles of dirt) and then meets 89 the one in Utah. It's a rolling sandy road not much fun to ride up. If you are on 89a on your way to Jacob Lake after you pass House Rock the road climbs a lot up to the Kaibab. Once you are up there you can take dirt roads all the way down to Winter road and get to the point where the AZT crosses.

At that point you have the choice skip the first/last 11 miles and miss some sweet views or head back up and get moving south. If you are going to skip the those 11 miles you could just skip the whole descent from Jacob. If it were me I would ride those 11 miles down on the trail it's good single track and the sweeping views at the end are worth it. Then slog back up the road to start over.

Of course the whole thing would be better if you can get to the state line. Might be hard to get the shuttle for the last 10 or so miles (the dirt part) right to the start. Riding that section would work.

If you get right to the state line the you have two options you can take the roads (the green route on the route network) or the trail. If you stick with the trail it's a bit of climbing but very well graded so it should be plenty ride-able. I've always been going the other way but it's not very steep so you should be fine.

A couple of questions for you. First are you looking to maximize single track or ride roads and make good time, green route vs blue in the network? And what's your thinking on the Grand Canyon hike, carry thru or arrange another shuttle? Just curious to help with planning. The trips I have done have been to get the most official AZT but that can mean a lot of slow riding and a fair bit of hike a bike. Also there are a couple of places where South bound riders would be better off doing a different route then North bounders. The main one is Oracle Ridge north of Tucson. The AZT route is a trail on a ridge gaining several thousand feet of elevation, it's a bitch on the way down. Much better to go up the control road and then pick up some of the trails on the way down.

Hope that helps

Tim

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  Topic Name: AZT north-to-south how to access? Reply #8 on: December 17, 2011, 04:59:32 AM
whmbraun


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« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2011, 04:59:32 AM »

Tim,

I really appreciate your help. That's a lot of valuable information you've already given me!

Here's some information about me (us):

  • I would consider us fairly fit and we'll make sure we'll get into even better shape before we start. I crossed the Alps twice but that's considerably shorter than the AZT (like a week or so) and very different. We typically carry only a 12 - 15 pound backpack, find plenty of water along the way, stay in shelters, and cover about 50 miles per day at a daily elevation gain of 5000 - 6000 feet. So the main challenge in the Alps is elevation gain.
  • We would look to maximize single track because we think that's the major attraction in mountain biking, however, I do not consider ourselves advanced technical riders. So we'd rather have to avoid long stretches of rock gardens, drops etc. (also considering the weight we'll be carrying).
  • We would hike the Grand Canyon. I understand that means carrying the bike but I believe we'll manage. I have hiked the Grand Canyon before (no bike) and know what it's like. I've also carried the bike up mountain passes (and then down the other side :-().
  • In general, I would pick slower going and not making it all the way to the Mexican border over hurrying and missing good single tracks or nice scenery. We can always come back...
  • I own "Biking the Arizona Trail" by Andrea Lankford and "Arizona Trail - The Officieal Guide". They're good for starters but leave a lot of questions unanswered, especially what to do about all the (many) prohibited and "not rideable" sections. We're not really eager to ride for days on end on paved roads or boring forest roads.
  • I also have the GPS track and section descriptions by the AZT organization but they don't really seem to cater to bikers specifically.

OK, this is getting too long already but let me say that after getting your input I will try to arrange for transport via Page and 89 north to the state line and start from there.

I booked the flights yesterday, too :-)
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  Topic Name: AZT north-to-south how to access? Reply #9 on: December 17, 2011, 06:13:52 AM
AZTtripper
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« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2011, 06:13:52 AM »

Sounds like a good strategy. There's a lot of new trail since the Andrea L book came out. Some of what she has to say makes good sense. There are some sections you would be better off to avoid. But with a lightweight modern bikepacking kit there's a lot of great riding you can do.

A quick blow by blow North to South.

From the state line you will have to climb a fair bit on mostly good trail.

Good trail all the way to the Canyon. There is one section that has been closed for years due to fire easy to hit the highway and get around it.

The rest of the way to Flagstaff all good trail with some dirt roads.

After Flag the trail does get a little rough but not too bad.

Good riding gets you all the way to the Mogollon Rim http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mogollon_Rim

It's a big down to get off the rim.

After the drop down the AZT turns to shit on the oldest most eroded section of trail. The Highline trail was built for mules in the 1880's. Just head South on the road to Payson.

The AZTR uses a quick route mostly dirt close to the highway south of Payson. At this point taking the AL route will be more scenic.

After Rye the red route will be hard, it adds a lot of pavement but I would say just take the easy route along Roosevelt Lake and the dirt road (Apache Trail) on to Phx.

After Phx you actually only need to go into Apache Junction east of Phx. There is sweet new trail heading south from the Picket Post TH.

Good trail mostly ride-able all the way South to Oracle. As I mentioned earlier for South bounders I would go up the dirt road (Control road).

Once you get to the top of the Control road you are up high in the pines. There are trails that get you off of the highway but most are real techy. Better to take the highway, if you want a break from the pavement take the Bugs Springs trail. Some hike a bike but lots of fun down hill cruzin.

After Bugs Spring trail you can rejoin the AZT at a place formerly called Prison Camp.

After Prison Camp the AZT is good fun trail for 3 miles to Molino Basin.

After Molino the AZT head east up and over a pass lots of hike a bike even on the techy down hill you'll walk some. This leads out into an area of good trail. But is out of the way and you could just as easily head down the highway and be in Tucson in minutes in stead of hours.

After Tucson there is great new trail all the way to the forest boundary. At the forest the trail get tougher but not that much tech. There is good riding all the way to Kentucky Camp and beyond to Gardner Canyon.

After Gardner the trail goes back into Wilderness so no bikes. You can bail to the highway at several points along the way. Or get all of the trail some of its very interesting old flume trail left over from the mining days of K Camp. Look at the AZTR course to see a good way to get from Gardner out to the highway.

After Gardner how ever you go you end up in Sonoita.

From Sonoita you can get to the Border pretty quickly on the main paved road to Parker Lake and then dirt to the official AZT ending points.

The last two passages Canelo Hills West and East have a lot of tough riding in them but it's cool rugged country. Unfortunately there is a lot of smuggling in this area and some trash as well as a lot of unsigned trails.

Patagonia is the last town for you it is on the official AZT route and is worth going out of your way to get to. More for it's interesting history and great pizza at the Velvet Elvis then for any good riding you could add.

It has been done before to just head South from Patagonia to a little border town called Locile but there's nothing there and you would need a pick up.

From Patagonia you could just roll the highway to Nogales where you can likely get a shuttle to Tucson and eventually back to Phx.

If you still have time after P town and choose to head east. The Canelo's are worth doing if you are still up for more pushing. You could just take the AL route on roads and go all the way to Sierra Vista and likely get a shuttle from there.

Flights book, cool. Your in for a great adventure no doubt.

Hopefully all of this will make sense when you are looking at the course.

Tim

 
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  Topic Name: AZT north-to-south how to access? Reply #10 on: December 17, 2011, 06:34:47 AM
AZTtripper
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« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2011, 06:34:47 AM »

One more note.

The route network page is getting a little bit outdated.

There will always be short reroutes but right now there is new trail under construction near the Gila river.

Once it's all done someone will need to ride it all and get gpx tracks.

For the most current route I would say check the AZTR course for 2012 once it's posted sometime next year.
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  Topic Name: AZT north-to-south how to access? Reply #11 on: December 17, 2011, 11:48:42 AM
whmbraun


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« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2011, 11:48:42 AM »

I think they plan to have the new construction finished around February 2012. So I'll follow your advice and check back then to get an updated GPS track. In the meantime I'll take your description and what else I have in terms of maps etc. and work out a preliminary GPS track. That and organizing the transport to the stateline will keep me busy for some time to come. May come back with questions now and then if you don't mind.

Thanks for all your help so far,
Wolfgang
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  Topic Name: AZT north-to-south how to access? Reply #12 on: December 18, 2011, 04:08:48 AM
AZTtripper
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« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2011, 04:08:48 AM »

Yep most of the work is well underway. This years AZTR will be the most complete ever. There is still one piece in the middle that's so messed up it will likely still be left out.

Happy planning.

Tim
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