Coconino loop in April

[gosurfariver]

I am beginning to look at routes for mid-April and am considering the Coconino loop.  What do you think, too early in the year for elevation near Flagstaff?

Thanks

[Chad B]

Based on current snow levels, a mid-April ride seems possible. It really just depends on the snow, although you could always trudge through what small sections of snow there would be on Elden (if there was a late snow).

[ScottM]

What Chad said.  Snow in many places can be detoured around with pretty easy (not out of the way) pavement.  Williams Mtn will probably be the snowiest (north facing, high point of the route).  So far this year looks pretty light...

[Dave-W]

Hi I was planing on doing the same loop around the 1st week of May or the 1st week of September and would like to know from a local which week would be better.

Also what would be a good tire choice, because I have never ridden in AZ (I am coming from South Florida )
Will tubeless with Stans hold up?

Last question (today) if I ride SS what would be a good gear to ride or should I just put on gears and be happy?

Didn't mean to hijack the post but I was wondering just aboutbthe same thing.

[ScottM]

I'd say the first week of May is better, since it likely won't be as hot.  Early Sept can be pretty warm.  Coming from Florida that might not be such an issue.  Sept. is guaranteed no snow!

Stans is the only way to go, IMO.

Last question (today) if I ride SS what would be a good gear to ride or should I just put on gears and be happy?

LOL.  Can't comment there.  You will be thankful for gears going up Mingus, though...

[AZTtripper]

Hi I was planing on doing the same loop around the 1st week of May or the 1st week of September and would like to know from a local which week would be better.

Also what would be a good tire choice, because I have never ridden in AZ (I am coming from South Florida )
Will tubeless with Stans hold up?

Last question (today) if I ride SS what would be a good gear to ride or should I just put on gears and be happy?

Didn't mean to hijack the post but I was wondering just aboutbthe same thing.

Lots of people swear by Stan's, I am not ready to go tubeless but I do run Stan's in tubes. I run schraders so it's an easy set up. Speaking of tubes make sure you have something in your spare tubes I know that has caught several people on the 300. Coco isn't as thorny but it's still AZ.

Not much of a SSer myself but I know Chad B ran a 32x20 on 29er wheels the first year. I was even able to keep up with him on the climb to Chicken Point that year. I was running 20x36 then but found 20x32 perfect for that climb. I knew better then to try to keep up with him on the DH. The Goat trail on Mingus has some fun stuff that I can barely ride with gears, pretty sure Chad said he walked more of it. Of course there's always the SS detour but you miss the summit that way.

[Dave-W]

Thanks for the info, I'm at the info gathering point at this time, so any and all info is greatly appreciated.  This will be my first out of state bike packing trip.  I initially wanted to do the AZT300 this year but after doing some reading (I think it was some of ScottM's posts) that next years AZT300 will have a much better route and more single track.  That is when I decided to do the Coco loop; it just looks like an incredible ride and a good way in getting my feet wet in this whole bike-packing thing.

If anyone has the time could you please answer a few questions that I have been thinking about in preparation for the trip.

1. Is the GPS file on this site accurate or is there a better one out there?

2. Best place to park the rental car and start the ride?

3. In need of a cool bike shop that I could send my bike to before I fly out (maybe even park my car at and leave from there)?

4.  How many days to complete the ride?  I am a strong rider but want to take lots of pictures and enjoy ride.

5.  Tires, not sure why this stresses me out so much but want to have the right tires for the conditions.  I am currently running Maxxis Icon in the front and Maxxis cross-mark in the rear, no tubes with Stans.  I was going to take 1 tubes, patch kit, combo Co2/pump and 30cc of Stans with me (I can fill my tire with stans without taking the tire off)

Thanks for any and all help.

[Chad B]

I would go gears and think big tires. It's some techy terrain out there. Stan's is key. I have done it gears and SS, although the former was a lot more comfortable given some of the terrain and the Mingus climb (as Tim said).

I would say you could comfortably do a "touring" pace in about 4-5 days. I believe the GPX file is updated.

As for the bike shop, Absolute is pretty legit. Give them a call. If that fails, I am sure one of our friends in Flagstaff can help you out with a place to park/ship the bike. If you stay at a hotel, a lot of times you can just ask them over the phone if you could leave a car there.

[AZTtripper]

While I have ridden the loop flat free twice now I don't think I could comfortably go out with only one tube. Assuming the Maxxis are true tubeless with heavy side walls you should be fine up there.

I am not very fast and I can handle the 4 day pace of the event. But if I were to ride it on my own I think 5 would be nice.

If you are really into the photo thing you are going to slow way down on the Sedona day. You could camp at Dead Horse State Park or maybe only climb part way up Mingus. But you have to go a ways up Mingus (no camping posted down low) and there's not a lot of flat ground. If you did Dead Horse you could run to town for food and come back.

Then ride over Mingus and maybe camp down near the Verde or near but not at the spring after the magic gate. If you went down by the river you could do that long hot climb in the AM when it's cooler. I have pumped from the Verde but you need to know if its clear ahead of time. You can check the gauge on line http://waterdata.usgs.gov/az/nwis/uv/?site_no=09504000&PARAmeter_cd=00065,00060 80cfs is base flow and should be clear any thing more is run off and likely silted. You can also just look down when you ride over the river after Dead Horse or both to be sure.

You could still do the room in Williams or if you camped at the river you would get there early enough to ride out far enough to camp by Sycamore.   

Hope that helps enjoy

Tim

[ec_duz_it]

My friends and i are thinking about doing this ride this april. It looks like we are on track for a heavier snow year this year.
At least thats what it seems like here in cali. Would we be better off  postponing until  may instead?  I prefer
Cold over hot. Is may a safer bet? Also just wondering how technical the singletrack on the route?

[schillingsworth]

So far northern AZ hasn't been getting pounded with snow, but the winter is still young. With that said, I would think May is a better bet.

As for the techiness of the singletrack, overall I didn't think it was that bad, but I live/ride in AZ. There's definitely some on/off the bike sections, but I don't recall anything too crazy. For me, the tough parts were Mingus Mtn, Bill Williams Mtn & slogging across Anderson Mesa rubble.

I was pretty much in touring mode on the route this past October, taking a boat load of pictures being the trailsweeper. Here's my recap, hope this helps you make a more informed decision:

http://schillingsworth.blogspot.com/2012/10/aes-coconino-250.html

-John

[ec_duz_it]

Thanks, your blog was super helpful.  I am now thinking last week of April, or first week of May.  That should be perfect I would think?  Flagstaff is just 8 hours directly east of Santa Barbara.  Should not be too bad of a drive! 

-Erin

[AZTtripper]

I think the Craziest part has to be the last .5 mile to the top of Mingus those switchbacks with all of the bike lifting is a bitch. And as Lynda pointed out last year a fall can be ugly.

I always seemed to end up there just at sunset.

[ec_duz_it]

It looks like the closest starting point will be in williams, az since we will be coming from california. Is this a good
Starting Point? What direction would be best if starting from williams? Clockwise and head northeast? Or go south
And go counterclockwise?

[AZTtripper]

Not sure if anyone has done this in reverse yet.

I haven't done the newest version but: right out of the start you'll be climbing a steep trail to descend a gradual one. On Mingus you might just end up walking part of what's easy riding down, then I know you'll end up walking down right off of the top. Lime Kiln sand in the reverse, up hill direction if its wet you'll be fine well better off.

I would say just drive to Flag and ride it in the proper direction from the original start. IMO it's going to be a much better experience. Day one is mostly fun ST a little bit of walking and a fair bit of easy road. Camp 1 is stellar. Day 2 starts out with a fun DH and then, after resupplying, the sweetness of Sedona. Lime Kiln gets you where you need to be, resupply and head up the bitch that is Mingus. The new way down is more Fun from what I hear. Day 3 is long and ends with a bang, it's nice to get a room, we always have, and order pizza delivered. I have only done the new Flagstaff AZT on a day ride but it's sweet. The Sycamore Canyon section on day 4 may find you "sick of more" but the finish will no doubt put the icing on it.

my .02
Tim

[schillingsworth]

I'll echo what Tim stated, CW direction as intended. As you read in my blog post, I really had a tough go of it up Mingus & Bill Williams Mtns and I did those on Day1 & 2 respectively. I can only imagine what those would feel like if they were on Day 3 & 4!! Ouch. Make the extra 40-ish mile I-40 drive & start in Flagstaff (as long as the trail is dry!!)

[ec_duz_it]

Thanks that's all I needed to hear.  Its only another 35 miles to Flagstaff.  We will do it the proper way.  Clockwise starting from Flagstaff.   If that makes the ride better, I am all for it.  There are probably better places to park our car in Flagstaff anyways.

Last few questions (for now)- 

Our first day we might not get to Flagstaff until about noon.  Where would be a good spot to camp on the trail the first night given we only have 3 or 4 hours to ride the first day?

Is a GPS really need for this ride?  I have never used a GPS and would prefer not to buy one.  I like topo maps. I have never gotten lost before, but if the singletrack on this ride is confusing, maybe I should bring a GPS.

I hear there is a Mingus Mountain "bypass" option.  Does anyone have the .GPX information on this bypass option so I can check it out in google earth? 

[AZTtripper]

Bypasses should be in the GPX file in the routes page.

Sedona could be tricky with out GPS it would be slower for sure.

12:00 isn't really that bad it took me 6.5 hours to camp and that's pretty slow. Most of the second half is easy road. Push it to see the lights of Sedona and then you'll be treated to the sunrise as well.

[ec_duz_it]

Hey az tripper, so we will start this on a monday at noon and we hope to be done by saturday at mid day. We want to camp every night. s. What would you suggest as far as campgrounds? Preferably not car camping. We like remote.

[AZTtripper]

Hey az tripper, so we will start this on a monday at noon and we hope to be done by saturday at mid day. We want to camp every night. s. What would you suggest as far as campgrounds? Preferably not car camping. We like remote.

Sweet 5 nights out. I had to count out the days. That's even one more night then my original thought. So.

Day one I would still say go the full on day one stage stop. It's a full 50 but a lot of road riding. It's a 4 wheel drive road that you camp on. So not really car camping, you should have the place to yourself, and the sunset and sunrise over Sedona makes it the "A" ticket spot.

Day two. Stock up for the whole day and night at the Circle K in Sedona, you might even take the time for a hot meal. You don't want to make it to Cottonwood. Find yourself a nice remote spot above Deadhorse State Park. I guess the down side to this is that your forced to carry enough water for the night. Final water stop, for the day, Red Rock State Park. My thinking had always been go into Cottonwood eat and then go back out to Deadhorse and camp in a pay site. I get not wanting to be abound car campers tho.

Day three this is where the extra day comes in handy. Rather then suffering up Mingus at the end of a long hard day, you get it first thing in the morning. Assuming your doing this in a cooler month so your not cooking in the sun. During the event it's always late in the day and shaded on the climb up. Then once your up and over Mingus, I think that should be enough for one day, head to the Coyote Spring. The spot I would look at is the old homestead just north of the spring. You can see a chimney up on the hillside, not sure if it will turn out to be a sweet campsite or not. Again there's a road but I doubt you'll see anyone.

Day 4 down to the Verde, look at the river when you cross over it just before Cottonwood, this will let you know if it's clear enough to filter. Climb out of the Verde Valley and up into the pines. It's all road, maybe stopping lower in the Juniper so your farther from Williams. Don't see much traffic on that road tho should be peaceful for a campsite.

Day 5 depending on how short you want to make that last day. You still need to ride up and over Williams Mt. And then you'll want to stop in Williams to eat and resupply. For a shorter last day you could go all the way, past the Maverick, and out to where you join into the AZT. Or you could stop earlier in the middle of the Sycamore Canyon trail. That leaves more for the last day. The AZT campsite would be off road but that area around Flag see a lot of traffic. Sycamore is pretty far out there so more remote or at least fewer people.

Adding the extra days will force you to carry a little more at times. But you'll have more time but then that means you'll need more water. It's a vicious cycle. No doubt it can all be worked out tho.

Tim