Coconino loop in April

[ec_duz_it]

Tim, first of all, thanks for all of your advice.  Much appreciated.  You are welcome to join us on the ride by the way.  We will buy all your booze and food and you can guide us!  We are planning to start on April 22.

Just to recap:

I understand day 1 and night 1.  In the event we get a later start than noon, are there any other camping/ bivouac options? 

Day 2, When you say "above Dead Horse SP" I would assume you mean "before you get to Dead Horse SP".  Coordinates for camping for this would be approximately 34°45'42.70"N, 111°59'46.49"W ?? And I assume there is NO water here? 

Day 3, Coordinates for Coyote Spring is around  34°42'31.01"N, 112°12'3.42"W ??  And I assume their IS water to filter here? 

Day 4, any place to camp near a water source? Maybe on the North side of Bill Williams Mountain?  I am fond of camping in the pine trees whenever possible.  Somewhere near 35°12'24.07"N, 112°12'36.65"W ??

Day 5, I am just looking on the satellite view, but 35°19'20.15"N, 111°43'16.98"W looks like a nice spot to camp in the trees.  I think that is roughly where the coco loop meets the AZT.  Should be some sort of water source around here I would hope (at least in April) ??

I guess it really comes down to where we can get water.  I am used to having water every 10 miles or so here in California.  I am guessing its a different story in AZ, but I am hoping April will be good for snow melt  water collecting. 

Thanks again,  Erin

[AZTtripper]

Plenty of places to camp along the roads late in Day one.

No water for the camp before Deadhorse.

If you go thru Cottonwood you'll have to climb a ways to get past the no camping area outside of town, shitty country to camp in anyway.

Coyote Spring has always had water in the past.

Yes in the Springtime there should be more water around from melting snow.

I have in the past found clean filterable water in the road ditch along the way to where you rejoin the AZT. So it is possible just harder to rely on or plan for.

[ec_duz_it]

I loaded all versions of the GPX files into bikeroutetoaster and none of them show more elevation gain/loss than 20,000 feet.  bikepacking.net says 28,000 feet.  That's quite a difference.  Any insight on how much climbing this route actually is? 

[schillingsworth]

According to Garmin.connect I ended up with 22,400 with an Edge 705.

[Stevland]

I think I ended up somewhere in the neighborhood of Freeskier, but I had to bypass Bill Williams because of poor planning. I figure 22,500 - 25,000 feet is probably a solid estimate. Honestly though, for a ride that long the other 3,000 feet Topo estimates wouldn't kill you. Unless of course, it was due to HAB repeats on Mingus.

[yz129]

a group of friends and I are riding stage 1 down into Sedona on june 8.
we have not downloaded gps cords yet, wondering if there are any water stops at dairy springs c/g or koc camp or Mormon lodge.
we are newbies and hope water is avail at these locations.
plan on leaving flag around 6am and hope to make Sedona before dark.

[AZTtripper]

Campgrounds will be open so water should be available. Water and some food stuffs at the Lodge. Have fun.

Tim

[yz129]

thank you I appreciate the quick reply.

[aaron w]

PSA:  The Texaco station by the interstate is closed due to a fire.  We found another station close by.  Just past the Texaco turn left on Rt 66 instead of turning right to stay on route.  There is small store with a cafe in about 1/4 mile. 

[ec_duz_it]

My friend and I toured most of the loop last week (the first 3 stages and then my bike was too beat up to do stage 4, so we took easier roads back to Flagstaff).  Here is a quick blog I did on the ride with plenty of photos:

http://erincarrolllandscapearchitect.wordpress.com/2013/05/05/coconino-loop-april-22-27-2013-2/

Some thoughts I did not share in the blog.  These may sound like complaints, but they are just things to think about before you do this ride.

The section of singletrack after Redrock State Park is not rideable.  Its a total walk-a-bike.  Its not terribly long, but I found it annoying after riding through the great singletrack in Sedona.

The singletrack before you get to Cottonwood is completely sandy and very hard to ride without fat tires.  There might be a fireroad you can take to get into cottonwood instead.

In the lower elevations, you will get a lot of flats if you ride just normal tubes.  Consider slime tubes or using stans.  Lots of small thorns on the trail.

Mingus is not a hike-a-bike.  Its a rock-climb-a-bike!  The cue sheets downplay Mingus a lot.  However, the singletrack after the Mingus climb is AWESOME!

I don't know why the route doesn't go up  Bill Williams mountain via the fireroad instead of the singletrack.  It seems unpractical to walk your bike up singletrack, when you could be riding the fireroad up.  I highly recommend taking the fire road up Bill Williams mountain. 

Coyote Spring is filty water.  We got there around 8 pm and decided to just push on and go to the Verde river and camp because the water was so disgusting at Coyote "Spring".

Overall, a great route.  If you want to TOUR it, give at least 6 days.  Some people say 5 days, but 6 is better. 

The "Tavern" hotel in Cottonwood is the spot we broke down and got a room.  Very nice rooms! 

The camping before you go up Bill Williams Mountain is pretty nice.  Consider spending a night in this area.

This route has plenty of fun singletrack. I remember seeing some guy say that there is not enough fun singletrack on this route.  He is smoking something...

Have fun!

[AZTtripper]

Thanks for the recap, sounds like you guys did enjoy the trip even if not the whole trip. Somewhere on here there is a thread where I laid out all of the sections I would skip on tour.

As to the guy who may have been smoking something I think he rode a different Mingus DH, it used to be more tech. I haven't done the new way but I hear it is more fun. Also he rode Sick of More, what he called the Sycamore tech section.

I haven't been up there for a couple of years. Maybe the top of Mingus should have a rock rating Class 2 is trailless terrain tho it is a trail so Class 1 Mountaineering becomes a 2 when you bring the bike. It's not your average trail that's for sure. The SS bypass would be safer and I think you hit the new trail sooner.

Bummer about Coyote Spring, it used to have a cover. There was another large open tank farther along and a bit off of the road. Sometimes the Verde can be silty.

Glad to hear you had some fun and made it back in one piece.

Tim

[aaron w]

I also just toured coco.  Regarding the coyote springs water....the main tanks are either empty or full of dirty water.  We walked a bit further up the road and found the source for the spring.  The spring box is covered and has a strong flow of very clean cold water. 

This is my second time on this loop and I found the ridability of a section is pretty dependent on your energy level at the moment.  For instance we all rode the entire single track up bill williams except for a couple extremely short off the bike moments.  No way would I ever ride the fire road up instead.  For us this part was early in the day and our legs were fresh.  Had it been at the end of the day I'm sure I would have walked more...

We were all dreading the lime kiln climb after red rock state park.  But we got a bit of cloud cover just in time and the hiking part went by in like 20 minutes.  Easy!  Yeah, walked a bit of sand before cottonwood but overall we all really enjoyed lime kiln. 

[ec_duz_it]

We were at Coyote Spring at night, so finding the other source of water that you speak of was difficult.  I had a hunch there might be better water uphill, but it was dark.

You are better man than I am if you can ride up the Bill Williams singletrack the whole way.  I would still highly recommend riding up the fireroad instead, if you are at a "touring" level and carry a fair amount weight like we did. BTW, the singletrack down bill williams really needs some maintenance- a ton of downed trees in that area. 

[AZTtripper]

Even at the end of the full stage I have enjoyed the ST climb, the road tempts me but not that much.

I think the down hill side does get some love. As I recall from the first 2 years, it's not the same down trees but new ones every year.That's just the nature of that thick old growth.

Yes you do want to drop the tents to enjoy single track bike packing.

[yz129]

anyone know if the trail closure by Mormon lake will interfear with stage one. do we turn off onto fr240 before it.
any good eats at Mormon lake lodge?

[AZTtripper]

Not sure about the bar and grill most likely its just ok, the C store is pretty limited.

I've always just carried a freeze dried meal from Flag to the overlook.

[ec_duz_it]

We went off route right about near the trail closure to
Pump water out of a small creek, so we didnt even notice
The closure. We met a backpacker who said she got a beer
And did laundry at mormon lake, so there are definetely
Some goods and services there, but we diknowdnt go there
So i cant tell you exactly what you can get in the way of food.
Thats all i know....

[yz129]

well it looks like its going to be a hot one this weekend, 8 of us will be rolling out at 6:00am Saturday, looks like 102deg in Sedona.
oak creek sure will feel good while i`m drinking a beer. rode last weekend in 104deg heat so it might not be too bad.
wish us luck!!!!!!!!!!

[yz129]

our ride ended up having 10 riders 4 of them women. had a couple minor problems, rear brake on matts bike along w/ him twisting his knee,lisa nursing a previously broken ankle (8 weeks) and Yvonne rear flat. six riders pulled out @ Mormon lake. 4 of us continued on finishing @ rancho Sedona campground with a RIDE time of 6hrs 38min. great trail other than the climb out of fisher point and Anderson mesa..