Great Divide MTB Route in late April

[JackBoyman]

Hi there!

I am new to this forum but I have been reading some of the articles for a while now and really enjoed it!  :thumbs

Here some upfront info about myself:

I am from Germany, 23 years old and just finished my BSc in Geology. The next semester me and my friend Fabian will spent traveling north America with our bicycles.

The major part of the trip we want to follow the GDMBR. The Problem is that we plan to arrive in New Mexico in late April (we will do the route from south to north as we want to spent the summer in BC and maybe get up to Alaska or the Yukon). Unfortunately we were not able to find any useful information about the weather and snow conditions for this time. Is it to still to early as the passes will be closed? What temperatures can we expect? What about snow conditions?

Maybe one of you guys has some experience in the area and can tell us more. We would really appreciate it. (And please excuse my English and bad spelling)

[Rooster Cogburn]

Touring the Great Divide route from south to north is a good direction if starting earlier in the year.  Yet, for most years, late April is too early to start because of the snow in the high country.  However, this year the snow is nearly non-existent in New Mexico and scarce in southern Colorado.  It could work if you weren't advancing north too fast.  Here is a place where you can keep track of the snow cover along the route as your departure approaches:  http://www.intellicast.com/Local/WxMap.aspx.  Turn on the "Snow Cover" under "Layers".

If the snow doesn't melt fast enough and you are still set on biking in late April, consider the Arizona Trail as an alternative.  I think it is much more interesting than the Great Divide route and the weather is perfect in April and early May.

[JackBoyman]

Thanks for the reply!
I feared as much with the snow, though the current snow levels are giving me some hope. Thanks a lot for the link too, we'll definitely check it out before our arrival. Unfortunately our schedule wont allow a later date to start the tour so we'll have to see how the conditions are in April. The Arizona Trail looks amazing! But we would have to cross over to the GDMBR or some other rout to get up to Canada. Maybe you could help us out here too? And is the AZT ridable with back panniers (meaning we wont go lightweight)? We will only be having backpanniers but that still means we wont be able to carry our bikes.

[AZTtripper]

The AZT is an awesome trail, nothing against NM but I think many will agree that Southern AZ is a special place. The true AZT is pretty technical with a fair bit of Hiking the Bike or what we call hike a bike or just HAB for short. You could certainly do the thing with a less then light weight set up, but it could start to suck. Of course it might slow you down enough to get the snows to melt off.

Also you could cross North into Utah for more extra special country side. Again nothing against Colorado but those high mountains early in your trip could really slow you down. And again many will say that the Red Rock country of Southern Utah is something.

There's also the Great Western Trail http://gwt.org/ tho there's very little info for on that page.

Starting with the AZT but not necessarily the AZTR course, as the GDMBR parallels the Continental Divide Hiking Trail it's possible to do a more dirt road version of the AZT. Skipping over some of the more HAB sections and riding roads into Tucson and then skipping the carry thru the canyon your heavier setup would be fine.

For the other States I bet you could plot a course out to follow some of the GWT and just work your way north thru Utah then you could join back in to the GDMBR as it bears west up north.

This trip has been done, there's a blog out there somewhere, guy came from Europe (Alpenzorro I think was his handle here) can't remember where he's from for sure. He also did what we nicked named hitch-biking. Anytime the route gets hard or uninteresting he would put his thumb out and hope someone in a pickup truck will stop and pick him up. It did work and he made good time.

How long do you guys have to pull off your trip?       

[Rooster Cogburn]

This is how I would do a spring-summer trip if I was unfamiliar with the West, was touring with panniers, and wanted to see some wild and interesting country without having to worry about long stretches of snow.

In late April, fly into Tucson, Arizona, and then ride pavement to the Mexico border (about 75 miles) where the Arizona Trail starts.  Ride the beginning of the Arizona Trail at a measured pace, getting used to riding on rough surfaces and not running out of water.  Once to the top of Mt. Lemmon (north of Tucson), take the dirt road down the north side rather than god-forsaken Oracle Ridge.  Similarly, skip the Highline hell trail near Pine and instead ride pavement and dirt roads to the top of Mogollon Rim.  Pedal onward to Flagstaff and then to the South Rim of the Grand Canyon.  Don't try to carry your bikes through the Grand Canyon (stash your bikes and go day hiking) but instead backtrack to Flagstaff (about 90 miles).  Take the train from Flagstaff to Albuquerque, New Mexico.  Get out of town fast (it is that kind of place) and ride pavement to Cuba (about 80 miles) where you can pick up the Great Divide route.  It will be late May by the time you get to Cuba and so for the rest of the summer you shouldn't have any trouble with long stretches of snow to walk through.

The Arizona Trail route (http://www.aztrail.org/passages/passages.php) done by hikers and horseback riders is somewhat different than the route done by mountain bikers because of the need for us to avoid Wilderness Areas and the higher elevation areas of Saguaro National Park.  Here is a GPS track for bikepackers, courtesy of Scott Morris: (http://topofusion.com/azt/race.php).

Just a note of caution:  The Arizona Trail has stretches of isolated trail while the Great Divide route is just roads.  It is easier to get yourself in a bind on the Arizona Trail (crunched body due to falling over, nailed by a cactus, mechanical breakdown, running out of water).

Whatever you decide, have fun and enjoy the challenge. Both trails are worth the effort.

[JackBoyman]

Hmmm... so many great options! Our planing just got a lot tougher but also a lot more fun! So far we were gonna go with the gdmbt only, but a "light" version of the AZT, cossing over through monument valley and heading east to colorado and joining the gdmbt there is what we are currently considering. Thank you guys for all the inspiration!!!

@AZTripper: we have a flight booked to Albuquerque, New Mexico on 04.20.15 and will leave North America on 07.30.15 from Vancouver, though we have the option rebook the flight and could therefore delay our leave by 1 to 2 months (no pressure there  ). I will look for AlpenZorro, I think I have read some posts of him before.

@Rooster Cogburn: I will really have to get my self into some routplaning before I can make some sense of your advice!    Cant make too much sense with all the locations yet. But thanks for your detailed description! I will definitely consider all of it! I already checked out some of Scott Morris AZT journals. From what I have read his route is probably to hard for us. But of cause I also checked out the AZT section on here (http://www.bikepacking.net/routes/arizona-trail/) there he describes the recommended route and an easy route, do you (Or anyone else for that matter  ) know the different routs and maybe recommend one over the other? Especially the green one?

Sooo, I will spent the rest of the weekend studying some gps tracks and reading journals. If you guys have some more tips, I am always happy about advice!

[Rooster Cogburn]

Yea, the place names are a bit confusing if you haven't been there.  I think the Green route has a lot to offer and would be easy to follow.  I would just include the loop that takes you through a section of Saguaro National Park (it too is on dirt roads).  The loop is a refreshing example of how beautiful the cactus desert can be without cattle grazing and poached Saguaro cactus.

[AZTtripper]

Go here http://www.bikepacking.net/routes/arizona-trail/ to see the red green and blue track options for the AZT.

Go here for a list of AZT passages.

I'll do my best to help you guys come up with a course.

Well that was quick Scott redid the Network page and I was able to whip out a quick track that I would recommend.

Mexico to AZ 87 that will get you on your way to Monument Valley.

[AZTtripper]

Trying to get the track to load as an attachment but there's a size limit.

Shoot me a pm with an email and I can send you a track.

Basically what I laid out would minimize the HAB but not eliminate it but at least make things more rack and pannier friendly. Without missing out on some sweet single track that's out there. Basically what Rooster is saying but a little bit less. Not missing the sweet stuff but not just bailing onto the road anytime you might have to push a little.

[AZTtripper]

There it is but it's going to be a poor copy as I had to simplify the crap out of it.

[jaymtb]

Hi,
Excellent advice from these experienced and generous folks.   

Coming from Germany, people are impressed  by the amount of open public land in the Western U.S.   (We should appreciate and protect it more.)

I'm in the Colorado mountains, and often go to southern Arizona in spring  to avoid mud season and some of  the variability of weather that goes with it.   

Spring weather changes often call for some route changes while underway, such as avoiding clay soils that turn to glue with wet weather, or avoiding high passes with spring snow storms. 

Given the above, it can help greatly to have a GPS loaded with 1:24k  topo  maps, plus trails overlays, water data,  and land ownership overlays.

The public land overlays are especially helpful when you need to plop down for the night and want to find the nearest non-private land to camp.

You can download and compile a map chip for your GPS at gpsfiledepot.com that will cover several states, with overlays mentioned above. 

Newer GPS units allow several map files to be turned on or off, depending on your area and interest.    You can also have a  copy of  a Nuvi type street map in the GPS that has POIs for things like stores, post offices, lodging, etc. with phone numbers.

I still use the Garming GPS units, but others are moving to  apps on cell phones.  The latter can have drawbacks of battery life and needing data access.   

It also would be very helpful to get a US sim card for your GSM phone. 

Here's hoping you have a great trip.

Cheers,
Jay

[SlowRide]

Just thought I'd chime in on the subject of snowpack resources, I always find snotel to be very helpful:

http://www.wcc.nrcs.usda.gov/snow/index.html

[JackBoyman]

Thanks again for all your help, I didn't expect so much support. Truly amazing!

@AZTtripper, I send you a pm. Special thanks here.

@jaymtb: thanks for the great map source, we have a garmin etrex 30 and will use it that for our trip.

So here is an update to our plans for now: We will do the AZT, probably using AZTtripper gps data and if needed some of Scotts to get us in the north of Arizona. From here we want to go to Monument Valley and head east to get on the gdmbt. Our plan is to make some distance and ride from Page AZ, to Oljato-Monument Valley using the 98, 160 and 163. From there we continue using roads riding through Durango, CO to Del Norte, CO and join the gdmbr. All in all that would be 400 miles for which we plan to take 7-8 days (we want to stay at least one night in Monument valley  ). Of course the route is no comparison to the AZT, but we can accept that. Do you guys agree or would you consider a different route?

[AZTtripper]

JackBoyman glad to help out I've been lucky enough to ride the AZT Mexico to Utah twice, I am jealous of your trip with the whole summer you guys should make it pretty far north.

I stopped the track for you at what I thought would be a good point to head NE but it sounds like you want to go father on the AZT, and that's great.

On the AZT 300/750 threads they call me the helpful guy, Scott post the course track but he never gave out water data, I made a water table based on the hikers one but for the bike course. But I don't spoon feed them way points I give the distances from places that are marked on a map. I never wanted to just give it away. Part of the process should be doing some map work before hand.

You could probably just use my track as a template and use the Network file to make a full sized track for yourself. Then you could continue on the AZT as far as you want. Beyond that AZ87 where I ended the track I would just stay on the AZT as it's all pretty good up there. Maybe you could drop off the trail to pick up the Mormon Lake store(not much there) and bar and grill(better food perhaps).  

[mathieu]

Late April is probably 2-4 weeks too early for the GDMBR. I did the GDMBR from the south starting May 20 from Tucson. We had some residual snow in the north of New Mexico (Brazos Ridge, 11,000 ft), but the high passes in southern Colorado (12,000 ft) were just cleared of snow. When we got to the north of Wyoming by mid-June, there were still patches of snow (and sticking mud from snow melt). It is well known from the Tour Divide Races that in early June many passes in northern Montana and British Columbia may have several miles ploughing through snowfields. My feeling is that a start in late April will cause you a lot of problems, not just in the south but especially in the north. After reading many blogs (and also doing the return trip north-to-south) I made a chart sketching the time window for both directions. Obviously, this is not rocket science and varies from year to year.

I have also traveled a few sections of the AZT. Generally this route is a much tougher than the GDMBR. The GD route is mainly dirt roads and forest roads with gradients well below 10%. There are just a few short single tracks over the 2700 miles that require hiking the bike. From memory : between Cuba and Abiquiu (0.5 mi), Fleecer Ridge (1 mi) and Lava Mountain Trail (1.5 mi). The AZT, although much shorter, has many such HAB sections and much longer. You can easily do the GDMBR with a big load and rear panniers, but not the AZT.

If you follow the AZT to the Grand Canyon and continue to Monument Valley, I suggest that you spend 1-2 weeks in Moab so that the sun has time to melt the snow higher up on the GD route.

Someone mentioned the route followed by Alpenzorro/Stefan Stuntz. His route through Arizona, Utah and Colorado is quite original and may inspire you too. See  www.mtb-news.de/forum/t/rockymountix-von-mexiko-nach-kanada.460366/  

Last year I took a mixed dirt/paved route through Arizona and into Utah that could be of interest. The start was early May. By mid June in northern Idaho I had to detour passes of 6000-7000 ft due to miles of snow. See http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/?o=1&doc_id=13840&v=3U

[Scholles]

Hey Guys,

my name is Fabian and i am the guy who is joining Frederik (Jack Boyman) on the AZT and GDMBR. First of all, i wanna thank you all for your great support as well! 
We just wanna update you on how our planning is progressing. By now we will cycle the AZT the way AZT Tripper had proposed it. Afterwards we use some paved roads to get to the GDMBR which we will join a few miles before Del Norte, CO. We really look forward to experience the beauty of Arizona and the USA.
Right now we try to get a permit to hike the Grand Canyon. Although we are very late as we had to apply for a permit four months ago (when we didn't even know to come to the Grand Canyon yet) we try. Plan B is to apply for a permit at the Backcountry Information Center at the south rim. If anyone has done that yet, we would be glad for any information

Greets, Fabian

[AZTtripper]

Hey it's possible to get your permit at the last minute at the Back Country Office at the South Rim. Tell them you want the horse camp site if needed. There are Horse sites near Phantom Ranch and at Cottonwood Campground as well. These are rarely ever taken and the Park Service will let them out for thru trippers who can't set an arrival date as easily as people who are just doing a canyon trip.

[Rooster Cogburn]

Also, you can try showing up first thing in the morning at the Back Country Office and indicate that you would like to be considered for any cancellations.  Even if you can't get an overnight permit, day hiking to the bottom and back is a fine experience (just start at dawn).  Try the less used and more spectacular Hance Trail rather than the crowded routes that start near South Rim (Kaibab and Bright Angel).