Idaho Hot Springs Mountain Bike Route - 2014 info thread

[harryonaspot]

Hi.  I will be riding this route in mid July. Easy pace, 4 other riders. All very experienced. If you wish to join us, let me know. Am driving from New England with room for 1 if that helps. Harry

[PeteStaehling]

Hi.  I will be riding this route in mid July. Easy pace, 4 other riders. All very experienced. If you wish to join us, let me know. Am driving from New England with room for 1 if that helps. Harry

I will be going mid June if the snow pack allows.  I'll play that by ear at the last minute.  That is one of the advantages of being retired and driving out rather than flying.  Maybe I will see you if our rides overlap.

[Vt_Brian]

Just got my mapset in the mailing. The design is great, clean and everytime I had a question, I found my answer on the maps.  Now the fun of planning.  Looks like I'll be doing a loop from Boise around to the Lowman cutoff and back on the main loop.  Found the map, that's about 400 miles. Not sure my singletrack skills are honed enough for western backcountry riding of the single route.  But figure I'll perhaps head out a short way on some of the loops to just get a taste of the single track riding and then turn back to the main loop.

[Gabriel Amadeus]

I've been pouring over the maps, fantastic work and so excited!

My "plan" is to do the whole singletrack shebang this july. Hopefully shooting for around 2+ weeks. Not being born yesterday however, I fully expect this "plan" to fall apart.

Is anyone familiar with the areas? I've got a few questions.

• Are there other highly recommended singletrack trails along the route? I plan on looking into the Little Boulder Cr Trail mentioned earlier.
• I'm trying to whittle the whole length down a bit to under 600mi. Just N of the North Shore Lodge on the main route there is a Dollar Cr Trail that heads west over to the North Fork of the Gold Fork. It would cut off ~125mi off the total route. Unlikely, but is anyone familiar with it? Or have other suggestions?
• Out of Galena Lodge it looks like Gladiator Cr trail could hop over to the Salmon River and cut out a bunch of elevation and miles. I'm assuming this would be a bunch of HAB if it's even open to bikes at all?
• I'm interested in hearing about that Atlanta > Alturas connection once the hordes hit the trails too.

Cheers, thanks!

[Aslan]

Gabriel,

I have been pouring over the maps as well.  My buddy and I are planning on leaving from McCall in mid July and doing the single track sections plus the Little Boulder Loop which looks like it will add a day and change to the route.  We are in our mid 40s and in no hurry so we are trying to average 35 miles per day and around 3000 feet of climbing.  More on forest service road and less on single track.  That makes it 21 days of riding.  We have done a number of these types of tours over the past few years and we are always shocked how much slower the single track sections are.  All it takes is one year of missed chainsaw crew to blow out an ideal schedule.  I have an itinerary all worked up if you want to PM me I can send it to you and you can chime in on what is wrong with it. Plenty I am sure. Especially since those elevation profiles are notorious for under estimating the total elevation gain. As to your questions.....

By all accounts Little Boulder is a superb trail.  We are adding it in even though it really stretches our ability to carry enough food through that section.

I have been doing research on the Alturas Lake connector and what little I have found is not very promising.  It would also make the food logistics very challenging. Hopefully some others in this forum will have better news.

Let us know what you find out about the other trails as I do not know anything about them.  I am sure a lot of good information will come out next year after a bunch of people have ridden it.

[Gabriel Amadeus]

Yeah, I hear you, 50mi a day is fine on gravel, but the singletrack will be the real wildcards. On my trip through Glacier we spent a full day and a half hitchhiking to buy a new chainring.

[Aslan]

My friend and I have a saying for our 'plans' that we make when touring.  There are plans A, B, and C but what we actually end up doing is plan 'J'.  That is what makes it an adventure.

[bigcog]

Advice needed,

We hope to do the route this year.  Since we are having to fly in and fly out, we need a good idea of miles per day we can achieve.  We plan to stay on the main route and not do any of the single track.  Does anyone know what the surface of the roads will be like.  Will we be OK for the most part with no suspension on the dirt roads.

We will probable only have 10 days.  So I don't think we would be able to do the whole thing.  If we cut off part of the route, what would part of the ride would you leave out.

Thanks in advance!

[Aslan]

BigCog,

How far you can, or want, to go depends on primarily on fitness, road surface, and elevation.  What I do when estimating a new route is I figure out how far I can comfortably ride with a load on an average dirt road and how much climbing I can do before it stops being fun.  For me on dirt roads at the start of a tour I aim for 40 miles and 3000 feet of climbing.  If it will be only 2000 feet of climbing then I add 5 miles of distance.  conversely, if the day has 4000 feet of climbing I subtract 5 miles of distance.  Keep in mind that my experience with ACA elevation profiles is that they underestimate the total climbing by about 25%.

Another method you could use is the 'Average Speed' method.  Figure out your average speed on a dirt road with a similar amount of time and climbing.  For example, if you can average 10 MPH with a loaded bike on dirt then figure out how much time you want to spend rolling.  Keep in mind that navigation, lunch, breaks, ect don't count.  So for me, a tourist in no hurry, at an average speed of 10MPH 40 miles is 4 hours rolling or 7-8 hours of traversing the landscape.  Your fitness, age, and desire to tour or hammer will influence your decision on milage.  I hope this helps.

[Adam Alphabet]

Just got the maps, little longer over the border. They look great!
Thinking of possibly riding the lower half Idaho City start, Lowman cutoff with single track options in September.

The riding and hotspringing I'm not too worried about in terms planning and prep. It's the fishing I'm curious about. I plan on bringing my Tenkara and light fishing kit. Question to the fly guys out there, preface with I fish some but am a mountain biker first....What are the 'MUST FISH' rivers/creeks along the route? It seems like there's water the whole route!

Thanks

[Gabriel Amadeus]

Bringing my fly rod too! Just plan on throwing it in whenever the water looks good.

[PeteStaehling]

Bringing my fly rod too! Just plan on throwing it in whenever the water looks good.

That is my plan as well.  I did that in the Sierras when I hiked the JMT last year and think I enjoyed it more than I would have if I had planned more where to fish.

[PeteStaehling]

There are dirt roads and there are dirt roads.  Can someone comment on what these particular roads are like surface wise?

[KenGlman]

BigCog,

How far you can, or want, to go depends on primarily on fitness, road surface, and elevation.  What I do when estimating a new route is I figure out how far I can comfortably ride with a load on an average dirt road and how much climbing I can do before it stops being fun.  For me on dirt roads at the start of a tour I aim for 40 miles and 3000 feet of climbing.  If it will be only 2000 feet of climbing then I add 5 miles of distance.  conversely, if the day has 4000 feet of climbing I subtract 5 miles of distance.  Keep in mind that my experience with ACA elevation profiles is that they underestimate the total climbing by about 25%.

Another method you could use is the 'Average Speed' method.  Figure out your average speed on a dirt road with a similar amount of time and climbing.  For example, if you can average 10 MPH with a loaded bike on dirt then figure out how much time you want to spend rolling.  Keep in mind that navigation, lunch, breaks, ect don't count.  So for me, a tourist in no hurry, at an average speed of 10MPH 40 miles is 4 hours rolling or 7-8 hours of traversing the landscape.  Your fitness, age, and desire to tour or hammer will influence your decision on milage.  I hope this helps.

That answers one of my questions. The other has to do with "fire season". My wife is a teacher and we generally don't start getting decent miles in until after the beginning of June. A month and a half of training would get us to mid-July, which has been described as the beginning of fire season. How much consideration should we give to finishing our ride by fire season? A typical bikepack or camping trip, for us, would be after August 1, which gives us plenty of time to train and still finish projects around the house.

[Rooster Cogburn]

I have the Idaho Hot Spring maps now and I'm impressed by the route design, the detail in which it is described, and the layout.  Casey Greene has outdone himself.  This sets a new standard of excellence for the Adventure Cycling Association.

I was interested in how the riding surfaces and terrain compared with the Tour Divide Race, the Arizona Trail 300 and Arizona Trail 750.  I compiled the enclosed summaries as I was typing up cue sheets which include the four Singletrack Options plus the Main Route sections that tie them together. 

The combined route is 639 miles (shall we call this the Idaho Springs 639?) of which 56% is dirt or gravel roads, 25% is trail or ATV track, and 15% is paved.  The main route has very little trail (1%) but the Singletrack Options are two-thirds trail or ATV track.  The Singletrack Options sum to 228 miles or one-third of the total miles.

These totals don't include the tie to the Boise Airport because who would want to start in hot-as-hell Boise when they could start in beautiful McCall?  Plus, starting in McCall would give a person several days at relatively low elevations (5000 to 7000 ft) before puffing into the high country (7000 to 10000 feet).

This route seems more like the AZT 750 than the AZT 300 or Tour Divide races.  Some of the trail options could create drama if one didn't bring enough food and found oneself bogged down by rough trail conditions, snow, and sparse oxygen (the 67-mile White Cloud Option, for example).  Overall, the opportunities for food stops are reasonable and water (both cold and hot) would be abundant in all but drought years.  My experience is that Idaho maintains its dirt and gravel roads no better than Arizona and New Mexico so a bit of rain could slow things down.  Lots of climbing on this route -- single speeders and the over-40 crowd (me) are going to hurt.

Anyone up for a Idaho Springs 369 race this fall?

                                                        Miles    Percent
Singletrack Options
                           Paved road                12             5
                           Dirt/gravel road                63           28
                           Singletrack trail / ATV      153           67
                           Bike path                          0             0
                           Total                            228              100
Main Route minus Singletrack Options   
                                Paved road               86                   21
                           Dirt/gravel road             296                   72
                           Singletrack trail / ATV         6                     1
                           Bike path                       23              6
                           Total                             411               100
Combined   
                                Paved road                99               15
                           Dirt/gravel road              359           56
                           Singletrack trail / ATV      158           25
                           Bike path                        23             4
                                Total                            639              100

[bigcog]

I'm really not a fisherman, but might like to try it.  Is there a chance I would be able to catch any thing, or would I have to get work on my skill set to have a realistic chance of success. 

[slugsworth]

Just to add to the chorus, these are great maps - and I'm hoping to do it this season - with June as a pretty likely option. I would drive out from Seattle - and might be up for joining up with some others especially if you are coming from W. WA so we could potentially do a ride or two before hand.

A couple of questions, has anyone found a good source to watch snow levels?

I'm curious about what bike people are planning on using - I've got a cross check that I think would be fine for the main section, but am wondering if a hardtail would be sufficient for the single track portions?

[harryonaspot]

I plan on riding my rigid Fargo. I think the bike choice would depend on what you normally ride on singletrack, and what tire you can fit. Right now I am mulling tire choices. I really like 40 mm tires for dirt touring. But want at least 2.1s for the Singletrack. Especially in front. It's fun to think about, especially as the snow isn't melting and it is too cold to road ride.

[Rooster Cogburn]

Here are some selected snow gauges for sites along the route and the snow depths on March 17th:

Gauge name                 Elev   Lat     Long   Snow Depth (inches)
VIENNA MINE                  8960   43.80  -114.85    97
GALENA SUMMIT              8780   43.87  -114.71     62
LOST-WOOD DIVIDE        7900   43.82  -114.26     61
ATLANTA SUMMIT            7580   43.76  -115.24     86
GALENA                         7470   43.88  -114.67     50
BANNER SUMMIT         7040   44.30  -115.23     72
DEADWOOD SUMMIT         6860   44.54  -115.56  109
BIG CREEK SUMMIT         6580   44.63  -115.79    85
SECESH SUMMIT         6520   45.19  -115.97    69
BRUNDAGE RESERVOIR   6250   45.04  -116.13    86
MORES CREEK SUMMIT   6100   43.93  -115.67    74
GRAHAM GUARD STA.     5690   43.95  -115.27    27
COZY COVE                5380   44.29  -115.66    26
BEAR BASIN                   5350   44.95  -116.14    37

You can update these values by going to:
http://www.wcc.nrcs.usda.gov/snotel/Idaho/idaho.html
Choose a site from the menu, go down to "Site Reports", select "Snow Depth", and select "Last 7 days".

The central Idaho snow pack is about normal this year although the mid-elevation areas (less than 6000 feet) got a good dose of warm rain and temperatures last week so much of that snow went away.  The long-term forecasts have been all over the map this winter and spring so not much confidence in how the snow melt season will progress.

The attached file is a GPX of the station locations

[harryonaspot]

Just got my maps today. The excitement builds! Sure is a lot of climbing! This question is premature, but I will need parking for at least 3 cars in Boise. Could use long term parking at the airport, but $$$. Maybe a storage place that does boats and RVs etc. anyone gotten that far in their planning? Anyone from Boise have an idea? Thanks for any help. Harry