Idaho Hot Springs Mountain Bike Route - 2014 info thread

[caseygreene]

Sorry guys that I have been absent for a few weeks, but it looks like questions have been taken care of.

Great stats Rooster!

Harry, if you are driving to the area, and you could swing it, I'd recommend skipping the Boise Spur, and starting elsewhere on the route. McCall, Cascade, or Crouch would be good places.

Another snow resource, not as detailed as snotel, but a bit more coverage. Although, the maps are rough. Use it as more of an overview: http://www.nohrsc.noaa.gov/nsa/index.html?year=2014&month=3&day=20&units=e&region=Northern_Rockies

[harryonaspot]

Casey.  What is your reason for not starting in Boise? Logistically, it would make sense for our group. And it looks reasonably flat. I am sure you have your reasons, just want to know what they are before talking to my friends about it. Thanks, Harry

[caseygreene]

The Boise Spur routing is totally worth it if one is getting off a plane at the airport, and needs to get to-and-from the route. That's why I included it, to give people a convenient/cheep option.

It's just not the nicest riding in the world. Especially on the Middle Fork Rd along Arrowrock Reservoir. So, if you can bypass it, I would. If not, you'll have to ride it twice. Which is not the end of the world, but not too exciting ether.

[caseygreene]

Another option would be to use the routing on Norb's new Smoke 'n' Fire Route http://smokenfire420.wordpress.com/route/ to connect Boise to the Hot Springs Route.

[caseygreene]

A quick note on map sales: we only have a few maps left in stock. We just put in another order with our printer yesterday, but it will take 3 or 4 weeks to get here. If you need them before then, place an order sooner.

[niknak]

I just got the maps. The route looks fantastic. Thanks Casey and AC for making this happen.

Is the main route (no singletrack) easy to follow without a GPS unit? I'd rather not buy one and learn how to use it if it's not necessary.

[bigcog]

I have looked at some of the directions, and tried to follow along with my Planet Earth ap, to no avail.  Are there other maps of the area that would help in navigation?  Maybe the national forest visitor maps?  If so which ones?

Would a GPS work in these areas?

[Rooster Cogburn]

On a computer I used Hillmap (http://www.hillmap.com/) with the CalTopoFS maps as a base and could see nearly all the roads and trails along the route.  The CalTopoFS base layers are available for Forest Service and surrounding lands throughout the country.  I don't know of a source for the maps for download to a GPS.  Anyone know?

[caseygreene]

Is the main route (no singletrack) easy to follow without a GPS unit?

I hope so. I personally traveled every inch of the main route, and the narrative directions were created from what I saw - and what you will see - on the ground. There are numerous instances where every other map said something to be true, when in fact, it is not true. For instance, you will find virtually no map which has the main route dirt road on the northeast side of Galena Summit, but it's there. Although, a bit hard to find at first.

Having said that I know there will probably be a least a few routing errors with this first printing. One of which we already know about - Heading to Stanley, "F - 37.8" should be "F - 27.8". Some elevations are also off, and will be added to the online addenda soon, but for now here they are:
- Profile: correct elevation for Lick Creek Summit is 6880
- Profile: correct elevation for Galena Summit is 8701
- Profile: correct elevation of unnamed summit north of Rocky Bar is 7150
- Map: correct elevation of unnamed summit south of Rocky Bar is 5533
There are no corrections on the Singletrack Options map that we know about. Although in the real world, the Salmon River does not mysteriously end west of Clayton...

As far as apps go, I'm really liking Backcountry Navigator on my android phone and tablet: http://backcountrynavigator.com/

As far as other maps go, check out the resource tab on the main IHSMBR page: http://www.adventurecycling.org/routes-and-maps/adventure-cycling-route-network/idaho-hot-springs-mountain-bike-route/. It's got some links to maps I like + hot spring books + weather & fire info. The Benchmark Atlas of Idaho is really good too: http://www.benchmarkmaps.com/products-page/atlases/idahoroad-recreation-atlas

[Aslan]

Casey,

I am sure the maps will be fine for navigation but will there be a GPS file released for the route before summer?  I did the Great Divide Route with just the maps and never once got lost but single track can be a bit more confusing.  If you have a GPS file I would download it as backup.  I have found a few minor discrepancies on the maps.  I have been meaning to PM you about them but I have been busy and then I heard about the avalanche and figured you had more important concerns than work.  I will try to get to it in a week or so.  I am glad to read that you and yours are all safe and well. 

[PeteStaehling]

How accessible are the starting and/or end points for the single track options.  Would it be crazy to do the main loop first and then drive back and do the optional sections?  Is that even possible with low clearance vehicle?

I am retired and have time to do a variety of stuff while out there so some pre/post tour riding, backpacking, fly fishing, and so on might be in the mix.

[mathieu]

I hope so. I personally traveled every inch of the main route, and the narrative directions were created from what I saw - and what you will see - on the ground. There are numerous instances where every other map said something to be true, when in fact, it is not true. For instance, you will find virtually no map which has the main route dirt road on the northeast side of Galena Summit, but it's there. Although, a bit hard to find at first.

Casey, I had no problem to find the dirt road northeast of Galina Summit on Google Maps (satellite view), but I was puzzled by the cue at 27.5 mi from Ketchum "Just before turnout..." . I guess the creek to cross on logs is on the LEFT of SR-75? The cue doesn't say this clearly. I hope each piece of the puzzle snaps into place at the spot. Still I wonder why you didn't opt for the Titus Lake Trail to crest Galina?

[bigcog]

We are still in the preliminary planning for a trip on this loop.

We will be flying in on a Saturday  at the end of July, and flying out the next Sunday for 9 total days, two of which will be travel days.

I'm thinking we would be doing 60 mile days, and want to take one rest day to give us some flexibility to get back to the airport in time.

So that would be approximately 350 miles.  Which means we could do maybe half of this loop.

So here are my questions: 

Is 60 miles reasonable for a daily average. (I did a short loaded hilly road tour last year and did 70 80 mile days)
As there any place we can find the elevation gain of each segment? (for instance the Ketchum-Stanley section)
Can someone give me an idea of what the road surfaces will be like?
Is the Lowman cutoff paved?  Is there a lot of elevation gain on it? Would you allow one day to do it?
Most importantly, if you could do only part(half) of the loop, which half would you choose and why?

Thanks in advance for answers to any or all of these questions.

 

[harryonaspot]

The maps will answer most of your questions

[bigcog]

"
Insert Quote
The maps will answer most of your questions

Thanks for your reply Harry, but I do have copy of the maps, and haven't been able to find the answers to the questions I asked.

[harryonaspot]

We plan on around 60 miles a day as well. May be a little less on some days especially the first few. Are you planning on riding any single track? It would appear that the north half of the route is much more remote. That may or may not appeal to you for that reason.there is an elevation profile on the bottom of the map that that may help. From what I understand, the road surfaces will vary from good to 4wd. Hope this helps. We start 7/16 and may see you enroute.
Harry

[Aslan]

I posted some distances and times earlier in this thread but just think about surface and total elevation.  As mentioned in the previous post, we are planning on averaging 35 miles per day and 3000 feet of climbing as based on the elevation profiles which we know from experience dramatically under estimate total elevation gain.  That means about 25 miles on the singletrack sections and 45 on the dirt road sections.  That distance sounds wimpy; however, figure your average speed on dirt with all that climbing.  For two experienced but 40ish bikepackers that is 8-12 mph.  Half that for the singletrack sections where 4-8 mph is realistic.  Then just math out how long you want to be rolling for.  For us, that is 4-6 hours of 'rolling wheel time' which means 7-10 hours traversing the landscape from break down to set up.  Navigation, lunch, pumping water, going  for a swim, ect... all consume time.   That schedule works for us as cycle tourists.  If your idea of a good time is waking up early and hammering all day then you can disregard this post; however, if you want to swim, fish, soak in the hot springs and sit around a camp fire then think about how much time it really takes and set your schedule accordingly.

[mathieu]

Is 60 miles reasonable for a daily average. (I did a short loaded hilly road tour last year and did 70 80 mile days)
As there any place we can find the elevation gain of each segment? (for instance the Ketchum-Stanley section)
 

On the Great Divide MBR with a fairly loaded bike (not the light bikepacking set-up), I did 63 mi / 4100 ft ascents on average per day , so 60 mi/day sounds reasonable to me.
Note that these ascents were measured by a Sigma bike computer with altitude meter. This is a barometric device that generally gives a lower ascent figure than a GPS device (about 15% less).

I mapped two stages of the Idaho Hot Springs route with Ride-with-GPS, one of them the Ketchum-Stanley section. I assume that you can view the elevation profile here (maybe you have to register first): http://ridewithgps.com/routes/4335889 .
It amounts to 66.3 mi / 4562 ft ascent and I expect to do it on a single day.

It took me about 30 minutes to map one stage with the ACA map cues at hand. I suggest that you map some stages yourself! I found it very educating for learning the terrain, especially in satellite view, and fun to do.

If you zoom-in on satellite view, it is usually possible to see whether a road is dirt or paved (viz. black surface; often you can see the white line). The level of detail is not enough to rate the quality of the dirt surface. But hey, this is supposed to be an adventure route!

[caseygreene]

I am sure the maps will be fine for navigation but will there be a GPS file released for the route before summer?

We will have gps tracks and waypoints - including for the each individual hot spring - out before the riding season.

I was puzzled by the cue at 27.5 mi from Ketchum "Just before turnout..." . I guess the creek to cross on logs is on the LEFT of SR-75? The cue doesn't say this clearly. I hope each piece of the puzzle snaps into place at the spot.

It will make sense when your on the ground.

Still I wonder why you didn't opt for the Titus Lake Trail to crest Galina?

Because the main route is on dirt roads. Titus Lake is singletrack. Also, I wanted to keep it closer to the highway in case folks wanted to bail-out onto it.

Is 60 miles reasonable for a daily average. (I did a short loaded hilly road tour last year and did 70 80 mile days)
As there any place we can find the elevation gain of each segment? (for instance the Ketchum-Stanley section)
Can someone give me an idea of what the road surfaces will be like?
Is the Lowman cutoff paved?  Is there a lot of elevation gain on it? Would you allow one day to do it?
Most importantly, if you could do only part(half) of the loop, which half would you choose and why?

Most of this info is on the maps. Feel free to give me a call at ACA - 406.721.1776 - if you need help you locating it. The dirt road surfaces will range from super-smooth-seemingly-paved, to super-rough-4wd. Loman Cutoff is entirely paved. As for the last question, the scenery between Ketchum and Stanley is probably the most dramatic on the route. There are nice hot springs all over the route.

[PeteStaehling]

How accessible are the starting and/or end points for the single track options.  Would it be crazy to do the main loop first and then drive back and do the optional sections?  Is that even possible with low clearance vehicle?

I am retired and have time to do a variety of stuff while out there so some pre/post tour riding, backpacking, fly fishing, and so on might be in the mix.

I am bumping this hoping for an answer.  Did no one have an answer for me or did the post just slip through the cracks?