$1 Million Dollar Unsupported MTB race

[mikepro]

I remember that the TDR/CTR/AZT took some coin.  Bikes/gear/food/travel.  But, sure, not $10k ... and similar to pie and ice cream - the experience(s), satisfaction of finishing, etc, etc, all make these non-entry-fee BP races worth it.  Right now, I can't see how $10k entry fee, plus travel, plus gear, yaddy-yadda is worth it.  Now, if someone else paid my way, then sure, but I'd be doing it for the experience and not necessarily the win.

Oh, and with the hype and race circus presentation and the $750k top prize, this race better have some serious (video) circus coverage ... video drones, one per team, with 24-7 live feed ... so we're not just tracking Spot dots, but able to look-in live to any race pair at any time.  Mandatory on-board cameras, mandatory Spot Gen3, HR monitors, power meters, weather, 3D map, etc, all 24-7 ... so the racers essentially get to be these futuristic lab rats for all to see.

I smell an opportunity for Trackleaders. 

[ImAFred]

What a fascinating concept. I say we start a sponsorship for two of our favorites and get them in. I vote for Krefs and Jefe, interested guys?

cant forget Scott...if you can get him back into racin after getting the touring bug

[JosiahM]

what is interesting about this race is the top guys are sure to suffer more than they would suffer on a free race with no money.
lets go back to last year when Jefe and Jesse were battling it out for the top spot on the ctr.  Now imagine that someone told each of them that they would get a million dollars if they won the race.  Just imagine how much harder they would have tried to push themselves.  I would imagine they would have dug deeper and fought off the sleep demons longer and longer to do whatever it took to stay on top with a prize purse that would buy them years without having to work and all the free time to do whatever adventures their hearts desire.
I can imagine a race like this would push people way past their comfort zone.  It would be interesting to see what the people in the back of the pack do when they realize they don't have a chance at the prize... Do they continue to push or do they give up?

[joeydurango]

Toby and I are on the same page.  Keep bikepacking racing underground and prize money-free.  I don't want to ever have to wonder if the leaders are on EPO or something.  The influx of cash into our little subculture can bring nothing good long-term.  The organizer wondering why anyone would do 17 days of riding/racing for what he viewed as nothing more than ice cream?  He completely missed the point, i.e., the journey itself.  Lame!

[james-o]

The organizer wondering why anyone would do 17 days of riding/racing for what he viewed as nothing more than ice cream?  He completely missed the point, i.e., the journey itself.  Lame!

I think that's just what Alex is saying on the intro about the event, unrelated to his take on racing personally. I'd say he totally gets self-supported, minimal racing for the sake of itself, for all the right reasons plus some reasons many of us won't get. His 'pitch' on the site seems to be about appealing to those wondering what more there could be. Opening pandora's box to those that will be motivated by $$. My 2p, from knowing the guy in that situation anyway - I saw him at the finish of the TD last year, he had a grin a mile wide : ) 

I say open up any racing to whatever people want to do, the TDF being full of dope doesn't affect a 1200km randonneur's event. I'm quite fascinated by the concept and what it could result in, despite having no urge at all to do anything like that. If I had more ability and fancied my chances I think I'd do it just to see how in-deep it put me. 2-up is complicating it imo, I'd rather it was one rider v others but 2-up 'would make better TV'.

[Marshal]

A long race with big money on the line, why--- C'est la vie and all that jazz. But I don’t see this race having much if any impact on underground self-supported racing in the short or long term.  It’s just too far removed, with the only major common elements being dirt, bikes and long distances.  And I can think of a certain movie that has already had way more impact on our little self-supported world than this race probably ever could.

On a personal note if I had real capability of competing in such a throw down race for big time money and bragging rights I would do it in a heartbeat!!  Life is short and all that stuff….hey, if I had the ability to compete at a paid, professional level, in virtually any sport, I would have done so.  And this winner take-almost-all concept could be a real blast with the right outlook.  Also a 10k entry fee would be a non-issue, especially for sponsored racers if enough marketing hype gets generated and/or for betting pool sponsored teams etc etc.  And sure there will be dope and cheating involved, always has been and always will be when enough is on the line.  (imo even our little self-supported racing world is not nearly as pure from cheating and doping as many would like to think)

But circling back to my earlier comment, this race will be so far removed from a CTR or TDR type event as to be a non-issue in terms of overlapping impacts.

But fun to comment on, with 2 week till Banff distractions are welcome . 

And best wishes to the organizers—luck in pulling it off with great success. 

[james-o]

"betting pool sponsored teams "

Now there's an idea.

[phil_rad]

What a fascinating concept. I say we start a sponsorship for two of our favorites and get them in. I vote for Krefs and Jefe, interested guys?

Now that's a good idea! I'd throw some cash into the pile for those guys. I wonder if we could generate 10 grand for them?

[cccniuk]

Harding & hall! Team UK!  sponsored by Evans cycles. Director sportif James! Not that it will happen.

Sent from my HTC Desire C using Tapatalk

[mbeardsl]

I would throw in a $100 in an instant to fund a team of competitive badasses.  It would be very interesting to see what the "pros" could do against some experienced and driven tenured bikepackers.  I don't disagree that "pros" could be very strong and quite fast but I'm not sure any of them quite know the suffering that others here have put themselves through to reach the finish line?? 

[Mike McElveen]

On their income tax returns, when asked their occupation, international level professional mountain bike racers can enter:  "Suffering."  Most people have no idea the level of suffering they put themselves through - as a matter of routine.  They'd have to learn the camping and navigating stuff, and acclimatize to the sleep deprivation and muscle recovery, but they'd find the pace and course difficulty playful.  They would not have to pedal nearly as many total hours because they can go so much faster.  What they might not be able to acclimate to is doing it all for "free".       

[Gimmearaise]

What a fascinating concept. I say we start a sponsorship for two of our favorites and get them in. I vote for Krefs and Jefe, interested guys?

I'm all for that, those are the two I would choose.

[THE LONG RANGER]

Is this race UCI? If not, it's just a UCI alternative. Nothing wrong with that, but let's call it what it is. Remember when the UCI had the, "no non UCI races" rule? That went over well.

One big reason I do the self supported races is that the level of entry is on the ground. They're just frameworks for challenges that let you maybe compare your efforts and style to others - they're there, and no one can tell you if you can, or can't do them - you just GO. That's nice. If you add in prize money... eh, the reason to do the race changes dramatically. Look at the complaining at the Giro this year, what a mess. My 0.02 of course.

[THE LONG RANGER]

On their income tax returns, when asked their occupation, international level professional mountain bike racers can enter:  "Suffering."  Most people have no idea the level of suffering they put themselves through - as a matter of routine.       

Eeeeeeeeehh my compassion for the pro cyclist may be lower than a few other things in this world. Give the, "oh my god, it's SO HARD" complaint to someone schlepping bricks all day. You know? It's like when someone comes back from a weekend of meditation and they tell me how challenging it was. It can come out of their mouth kinda rude, I think.

They'd have to learn the camping and navigating stuff, and acclimatize to the sleep deprivation and muscle recovery, but they'd find the pace and course difficulty playful.  They would not have to pedal nearly as many total hours because they can go so much faster.  What they might not be able to acclimate to is doing it all for "free". 

This is an interesting thought, and one day, someone's going to prove this right or wrong (or at least a data set will be created). The problem may be what you're addressing: no one wants to take time off from their pro season to try, because, well that's their job, right?

"course difficulty: playful" - that should be the new moniker for the AZTR. I think Scott thinks this way.

[THE LONG RANGER]

I can't help but look at this from an ultrarunning point of view. Prize money was only recently introduced to that sport in a few races, and so far it hasn't changed much. The same prize-free races are still immensely popular, and no Kenyan has yet come out of the woodwork to crush the entire field. Joe Shmoes continue to do what they want to do, and even the faster runners in the sport don't seem to base their calendar on money races. But it still generates arguments about doping, purity of the sport, etc.

From what I've seen Jill, and you may have a broader perspective as I just run - you race,  is that really good marathoners critique say trail running courses for their "runability" - if the course isn't 99.9% runnable, it's somehow not a good course, which makes sense in their perspective, but leads to sort of boring courses.

I sorta think something like UTMB is a very boring course, and in comparison, all the unofficial FKT's that actually go UP Mount Blanc are what's actually interesting. It helps that say, Killian can go for those sorts of things, being a ski mountaineer racer half the year, and Sage Canaday still wants to qualify for prestigious marathons (or the Olympics? Again?) - but I'd doubt he'd ever try that sort of FKT, even though he wants to ALSO produce a film about exactly the type of athlete you're talking about: competitive marathon runners, turning into competitive ultra trail runners (which I think is weird, personally).

[Jilleo]

From what I've seen Jill, and you may have a broader perspective as I just run - you race,  is that really good marathoners critique say trail running courses for their "runability" - if the course isn't 99.9% runnable, it's somehow not a good course, which makes sense in their perspective, but leads to sort of boring courses.

I sorta think something like UTMB is a very boring course, and in comparison, all the unofficial FKT's that actually go UP Mount Blanc are what's actually interesting. It helps that say, Killian can go for those sorts of things, being a ski mountaineer racer half the year, and Sage Canaday still wants to qualify for prestigious marathons (or the Olympics? Again?) - but I'd doubt he'd ever try that sort of FKT, even though he wants to ALSO produce a film about exactly the type of athlete you're talking about: competitive marathon runners, turning into competitive ultra trail runners (which I think is weird, personally).

This would be an interesting discussion although off-topic for this thread. When it comes to marathoning versus trail running versus speed climbing, you're effectively describing three different sports, and excelling in one doesn't always mean excelling in another. This race has similar implications. It's longer than a 24-hour race but not quite a bikepacking race, in that most at the front of the field will either ride nonstop or with short naps at support stations. If I were to draw a parallel, I think it's closer in scope to the kind of multi-day mountain racing that is slowly becoming more popular in Europe, such as the Tor des Geants. A multi-talented runner like Kilian could dominate a race like that, but a top marathoner? Unlikely. With 80,000 feet of climbing in 200 miles, it's emphatically a hiking race for even the top competitors so far. Depending on the type of course the Munga draws out, it may be similarly unapproachable from a pure speed perspective.

I'm a hiker myself, but I don't fault runners for seeking runnable courses. I figure they just like running.

[MikeC]

I'd happily pony up a few hundred bucks to help get Jefe or Krefs down there.

The bummer is that this amount of prize money will bring cheats out of the woodwork, ensuring that our heroes (see above) won't stand a chance in the end.

[Done]

There are enough people that cut corners, without money on the line. Throw down a million dollars, and watch the scum rise to the surface. Lance Armstrong still has many admirers.

[ComoDepot]

I am a cynical so and so.

So I looked at it with that perspective.

1. They are 'limiting' entries to 450 teams - $4,500,000

2. No mention of sponsors, which is very odd. Or media coverage, also odd.

3. Their Lawyers who I have heard of, I think I have had dealings with them, Wynne Kossuth at Eversheds (SA) goes on to say that: “As legal counsel to The Munga, we can confirm that $1 million has been guaranteed for the purposes of race prize money.”

Not the way you would do it, the guarantee would be from a Bank and would be on the lines of that the sum has been deposited into an ESCROW account solely for the payment of prize money.

There is reference to Terms and Conditions, but I could not find these.

My guess is that is they do not get a minimum number of entries to cover the prize money and their costs there is a cancellation provision. So the race will only happen if they have enough entries to pay the prize money.

I do not know how large their target audience is, sounds optimistic.

[Gimmearaise]

here is your chance for a free entry. https://www.endomondo.com/challenges/16881512