2011 CTR Planning

[ETURK]

How much do you rely on your GPS? 

Good question and you gave me an ideal. I would venture to say you only need a GPS between Silverton and Buena Vista, being the most critical sections too. Maybe from Durango to Silverton, don't know. Since I am going in reverse maybe I'll drop mine off at the BV. Be nice to lose that weight! 

[ETURK]

Reverse has some advantages! Yeah, ok, wrong forum, never mind.   

[bartspedden]

I rode the CT in 2009 without a GPS. I didn't have one. Now I have one for racing, I do other races in the mountains and it seemed to make sense in the event of a white out.  I got caught in a white out, didn't have a gps, and wind was cranking to the point where we couldn't stand very well so there was no "let's take a map and compass out and figure this thing out".  Instead, we dug a little snow cave and waited it out.  Some course sweepers found us within an hour and we followed them down to tree line.  Even the course sweepers had  a tough time finding their way.  I suspect a GPS would of helped a lot.  So, I now have a GPS for racing if needed.  I keep mine in my pack and don't really need it much to be honest.  I know folks that keep it on their bars and it works well for them. I bring the big CTR book and cut out all the stuff that I don't want/need to reduce it's VERY heavy weight.  I found the little trail guide to be useless in comparison to the big book on training rides.

For me, the most helpful route finding device was my cyclo-computer because it told be distances.  If I ever had a question about direction I would simply pull out the book and look at the very well detailed list at the end of the segment that describes where to go.  It says things like "turn right at mile 3.2".  I did find that sometimes my mileage wasn't perfect because of the hike a bike sections.  My cheap little computer doesn't seem to register the slow rolling wheel when I'm hiking.  I only got "lost" once and I found my way back with 30 minutes.  No big deal.

I'll still carry the GPS and learn to use it better, but there was no NEED for me to have it.  Here's the thing though, regardless of whether you are a compete'er or a complete'er you are going to push yourself very hard.  You are going to get lonely. You are going to want to quit. You are going to "not have fun". If the stars are aligned against you and you go through all those tough times within 5 seconds because you are "lost" a GPS might be the one little stupid piece of hope that keeps you from cracking and gets you back on trail and loving life again.  Just my 2 cents.

[TruthRider]

Thanks Bart.  Very interesting comment at the end, because ... here's the rookie talking ...

It's VERY difficult for me to imagine the heinousness.  Intellectually, I am very much aware it will be there - I've read virtually every ride report linked from Stefan's page.  But I've never experienced it.  I've never entered in one single race in my life.  In fact, I smiled when I looked at that CTR page originally and it says:  "If you've never done a multi-day endurance ride, don't start with the CTR!"  Because in fact, that's exactly what I plan to do. 

So I know it's coming.  I can't wait.  Even in training rides over the next six months, it won't be the same.  I guess at the end of the day, it's a huge part of the motivation to ride in this race:  To see how I will react to that challenge, the one where every fiber of my being is telling me to quit.

[bartspedden]

I guess at the end of the day, it's a huge part of the motivation to ride in this race:  To see how I will react to that challenge, the one where every fiber of my being is telling me to quit.

TruthRider,  I suspect you will get your chance to see you will react!  I feel this exact same way on most of my adventures. 

[Marshal]

I'm curious about the need for a GPS unit for this race?  I don't have one ... not inclined.  I've found the CT to be fairly well marked in most places ...  In the places where it's not:  Are the GPS units super helpful?  What's their resolution?  Do they tell you if you're within 100 ft of the trail, or within 3 feet?

Having ridden the majority of the sections from Denver through Chochetopa, I kind of feel like I could find my way through ... although the Cataract section definitely seems dicey.  Interesting, too, because the maps I have show the CT goes down Pole Creek to Stony Pass road, whereas Stefan's route stays along the ridge and hits Stony Pass road much higher towards the pass.  Are my maps wrong, or does the CTR depart from the CT there for a bit?

How much do you rely on your GPS?  Do you have it on the handlebars, and look at it a lot?  Or is it packed away?  THANKS

GPS is nice but not required for the CT--it WILL save you some map/double check time, will eliminate virtually all bonus miles, possibly save major time if you do much night riding, will also reduce stress--this assumes you have it mounted on the bars and know how to use it..  Can also eliminate weight and bulk of maps. Resolution is a non issue

[TruthRider]

GPS:   Why is resolution a non-issue?  What does that mean?  My worry is that I would get to a trail intersection and neither is marked and not know which way to go.  Didn't this happen to Ethan Passant a couple years ago, when he took a different trail for 3 miles on Jarosa Mesa?  This exact scenario is what I'm curious about - whether or not the GPS would help enough to know whether or not to take the left or right fork.   THANKS for your replies!

[wookieone]

That Is where a GPS comes in handy, If and big IF the track is correct. Then one just has to zoom in and it is pretty clear where to go. If you're racing, ie going as fast as you can, a GPS makes route finding a no brainer, which really helps when you have become a no brainer. But maps and a compass, and a bit of trail sense and it is possible to follow the route, read the latest guide book, study the maps. Jefe

[bartspedden]

As long as you know how to use the GPS I think the answer is: YES, a GPS will help enough to know whether or not to take a left or a right.  I didn't take the maps with me, just the book.  I did have to take the book out a bunch of times to figure things out.  A GPS would of definitely helped reduce time if it's mounted on your bars. I never felt stressed when trying to figure out directions, so for me no big deal there. I'm not sure what's more important though trail familiarity or being good with your GPS.  Since I'm not good with my GPS my bias is for trail familiarity.  The problem is for most folks, pre-riding all the segments is not an option so it's not practical/possible to have trail familiarity.  

All that being said, I'll be using my GPS a lot more this year so that I get more comfortable with it.

[ETURK]

Many would argue that the CTR is one of the best, if not the best, marked back country trails in the US. But then again if you never done any of the trail there ARE "where do I go now" sections requiring figuring out. Bottom line, if you don't know the trail and your "racing", it would be best to take a GPS.

Since I have ridden most of the CTR, some sections on several occasions, my biggest concern is only between BV and Silverton.

Different question, probably for Stephen: Some of us are wonder if the call in number be available for those going in reverse? We like to cross everyone midway and still keep the family's aware, etc. What do you think?

[ETURK]

Different question, probably for Stephen:

Sorry, I meant for Stefan!

[Marshal]

GPS:   Why is resolution a non-issue?  What does that mean?  My worry is that I would get to a trail intersection and neither is marked and not know which way to go.  Didn't this happen to  Passant a couple years ago, when he took a different trail for 3 miles on Jarosa Mesa?  This exact scenario is what I'm curious about - whether or not the GPS would help enough to know whether or not to take the left or right fork.   THANKS for your replies!

Resolution is a non issue because within a few yards on the WRONG path you will know 'with a glance'--in the dark this is huge time saver.  If you are off track you know it 'at a glance'--when this 'at a glance' knowledge is combined with actual on-ground conditions is easy to 1st-avoid and 2nd-correct nav errors.  

BTY that spot where Ethan missed the trail--so did I--for a few yards--but my GPS saved me (see attached)

[Marshal]

That Is where a GPS comes in handy, If and big IF the track is correct. Then one just has to zoom in and it is pretty clear where to go. If you're racing, ie going as fast as you can, a GPS makes route finding a no brainer, which really helps when you have become a no brainer. But maps and a compass, and a bit of trail sense and it is possible to follow the route, read the latest guide book, study the maps. Jefe

The real world data shows multi day race Tracks are almost never wrong.  Of course if you have the brains to learn to use a GPS/track you can easily confirm the track you plan on using is correct

[Marshal]

I think one of the admirable things about our tiny niche sport is the wild array of bike and gear choices.  It’s interesting and fun to see all the different approaches, many based on personal beliefs that have little or no bearing on optimizing one’s finish time. 

But with regards to navigation approaches, CTR or other routes:

The GPS has proven to be the preeminent navigation method.  Not counting pre-riding, till something better comes along it is the ‘fastest’ method.

However, just like other sub optimal bike and gear choices it also perfectly ok to increase your finish time by not using GPS technology.

[TruthRider]

Thanks for all the GPS replies. I'm pretty certain I won't be off the front, and in fact will be looking to optimize a "finish" as opposed to a "finish time."

Is it August yet??  My wife is already nervous about this obsession ...

[Marshal]

As far as planning for the CTR goes.  Is anyone experimenting with different food this year?  I'm trying to think of some better options.  I'm pretty happy with dehydrated meals for dinner, but I seem to struggle with a good breakfast because I'm a bacon/eggs/hashbrowns/toast/pancake/sausage kinda guy.  In the morning after a big day, I always want to house some serious food in the mornings, but tend to opt with a bowl of cereal/fruit/bagel.  Lunches don't really seem to happen for me as I tend to snack on things all day long while riding (i.e. bars/chews/crackers/gu's).

Can't wait to here some different ideas  

see/grab/pay and go

Thoughts on food during Multi Day races like the CTR
(Of course all ‘specific’ food choices should be what has proven to work for you)

Riding Food—what you can conveniently eat while moving
Liquid-you can get calories from your drink if that works for you, soda, mix, juice, lemonade etc.  I commonly cut lemonade or non pulp juice with water.
Solids-- candy bars, jerky, power bars, goo’s, nuts, crushed chips etc etc
(for me it’s usually salty snack when its hot and sweet snack when it’s not)

Riding food is THE KEY for doing well on the CTR, keeps you going all day long without the need to stop.  Imo the best Riding food is the kind easily replaced along the route at a convenience store.  The racer should carry just enough (+small backup) weight wise to get to the next re-supply and should be familiar enough with what specific choices work for him/her to be able quickly see/grab/pay and go.  

Stop Food –what you eat while stopped
Riding food can also be Stop food but many times  Stop food is the type that requires some type of preparation.  Tortilla and cheese slices, pack of tuna and crackers etc etc.

Stop food should be used strategically to provide a large intake of calories at beneficial times.     Some examples of good times to intake a large amount of calories might be:
Early morning—after 1-2 hours of riding when you are warmed up and hungry
Lunch—reward yourself with a stop with a view
Late evening—before full dark so you do not need lights but still plan on riding for a few hours
Pick me up--fight off a bonk--tricky bonks can get you late at night-you need to be able to 'read' your body needs
Also intake of Stop food should be timed to match upcoming trail/light/weather conditions

Just like Riding food it’s best to be know how to quickly grab Stop food, that you know works for you, from a convenience store along the route.

Restaurant Food
Do you need the ‘break’ to be able to continue?  If you are sitting down and waiting on service you are no longer ‘racing’ so why are you sitting?  And depending on location and time of day the huge calorie load could make riding hard quite difficult for a few hours.

Unless you have some lucking timing where you reach a sit down restaurant at exactly the right time you can save time with a 'fast food' take out option for hot food.  Subway, Deli counter, or ask for ½ the meal wrapped to go and eat that part down the trail.

To any who is new to multi day self suppoerted racing you might at min do a 1 day-1night-1day test ride where you push--hard and see how your food plans did or did not work

[joeydurango]

TruthRider - one of my maps (DeLorme's 2007 Colorado Gazetteer) also shows the CT tracking to the south of the Stony Creek Pass.  However, the 7th edition of the CT Guidebook shows the trail along the ridge, as Stefan describes on the site.  I'm assuming that the trail used to run lower at some point in the recent past and that they've rerouted it, as they did near Hope Pass and Swan Creek/Breck (both of which are marked incorrectly on the 2007 Gazetteer).

As for GPS - never used one, never needed one - but I'm considering it for the CTR.  Haven't yet decided!

[timroz]

I think I said this before;

The GPS track is PRICELESS on the detours.

I rarely looked at it on the trail, 'cause there was usually a CTR triangle within site.

But you could screw up bad on the detours w/o a GPS, and not completing the whole deal because you rode a paved road instead of a dirt road or missed a turn in a town would suck.

[TruthRider]

Thanks for the bit about the road detours; certainly makes a lot of sense and might clinch my decision.

Also JoeyDurango thanks re: Cataract.  I think you're right, although I was there last summer and it's definitely signed as the CT down low on Stony Pass road near Pole Creek, maybe they didn't go remove that sign. 

[Stefan_G]

TruthRider - one of my maps (DeLorme's 2007 Colorado Gazetteer) also shows the CT tracking to the south of the Stony Creek Pass.  However, the 7th edition of the CT Guidebook shows the trail along the ridge, as Stefan describes on the site.  I'm assuming that the trail used to run lower at some point in the recent past and that they've rerouted it, as they did near Hope Pass and Swan Creek/Breck (both of which are marked incorrectly on the 2007 Gazetteer).

As for GPS - never used one, never needed one - but I'm considering it for the CTR.  Haven't yet decided!

A bit of history for ya'll.  Segments 22 and 23 from Spring Creek Pass to Silverton were re-routed in 2007, but not really completed until 2008 and 2009.  The old CT dropped down Pole Creek, then climbed via Beartown (ghost mining site) back up to the Continental Divide.  The riding down Pole creek was miserable - a sloppy bog with braided trail and multiple creek crossings.  Maybe the slowest 12 miles of "downhill" I've ever done...  Then, you'd have to ride back up the Stony Pass 4WD rode to avoid the Weminuche Wilderness.  All that coupled with the unknown rideability of the new Cataract Ridge reroute led us to use the Cinnamon Pass detour in 2007 and 2008.  In 2009, 2010 (and for the foreseeable future), the CTR course was changed to stick to the trail along Cataract Ridge, and this has been a highlight for many riders, myself included.  Riding those segments is approximately the same mileage as descending to Lake City, then taking Cinnamon Pass to Silverton, but adds probably 8000' of climbing and many more hours in (and out of!) the saddle.  To compensate for this, we dropped the long and boring Tarryall detour in favor of the quick-and-dirty US-285 detour.  And, of course, the Breck to Copper Segment replaced the Tenmile bikepath as well to stick with the "as much of the CT as possible" theme.  Overall, the course is very similar timewise, but I think it is a fair amount harder due to quite
a bit more hiking than the original course.  

There may be some old CT markers heading down Pole Creek, but the new stuff is designated quite clearly.  However, if you are in this area at night, IMO a GPS is very worthwhile.  More than a few riders have missed turns up there in the dark.