2011 CTR Planning

[Done]

Events don't have integrity, people do.

So, your point is that you want to argue semiotics and my word usage--rather than the issue of what constitutes ethical competition?

OK, I looked up integrity. I'm using it properly, and events (as social structures) can indeed be described as having integrity. A high-integrity event is one that is consistent, ethical, and whole--by design and practice. By way of example, the Tour de France suffered an integrity gap a number of years ago when everyone seemed to be complicit in doping scandals.

But I really don't want to argue the meaning of words with you, Dave. I think that my meaning is clear: if riders choose to ignore rule infractions, it diminishes the weight of an event. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't enjoy participating in a race in which people regularly cheated. I feel a decent amount of pride having my name next to other CTR racers, knowing that they fought the same battles and suffered the same challenges that I did. I would not feel so great if I shared the same space with people who cheated. I expect that most people feel the same way--although Tim says that he doesn't care, and you seem more concerned with my word usage!

[DaveH]

You're taking it pretty far...really all I'm saying is these events are personal challenges (or perhaps experiences), and what one takes away from an event is directly proportional to what one puts into it.  No more, no less.  If you decide to let the actions of others degrade that in some way, that's unfortunate, but is a reflection of that other rider, not on the event. 

As for that "other" event, UCI cycling as a whole has suffered, not just that one event.  Similarly, if many self-supported riders decided to not abide by event/genre rules, our house of cards falls down.

Should't you be counting grams and studying weather forecasts right now anyway???

[Done]

Stefan, the visionary who established the CTR, said it the best:

The rules are simple and brief - ultimately, the CTR is dependent upon each racer's integrity. If you can't do this ride without outside or pre-arranged support, don't enter the race. Breaking or bending these simple rules is unfair to yourself and to the other racers who are out there suffering just as bad as you are, yet they are still playing by the rules. So please, play fair. You know you're better than that - I know you're better than that!

Yes, "breaking or bending these simple rules is unfair to yourself and to the other racers..." So, no, Dave, I don't think that I'm taking it too far. Once we choose to line up with other racers at an event that someone else established, it's not just about the "personal challenge"--it's also about how fairly we play the game. I finished the race honorably last year, and had no problem calling out one rider who didn't. Further, I think that the type of selective trail magic that I witnessed last year was crappy, and I hope that people think twice before doing something similar this year.

But I still really don't know what points you're trying to make. So here are a couple of questions that might help me understand where you are coming from. 1) Do you think that the type of selective trail magic that occurred last year improved the race, and that Stefan should eliminate the rule outlawing it? 2) Would you call out someone cutting the course or otherwise breaking the rules, or do you think that cheaters should be let off the hook?

[DaveH]

Toby, let's not pollute this CTR Planning thread any more with this verbiage, eh?  Wrong time, wrong place to go this deep into rules.  Maybe in November

[Done]

Toby, let's not pollute this CTR Planning thread any more with this verbiage, eh?  Wrong time, wrong place to go this deep into rules.  Maybe in November

Sure, Dave. Nice duck BTW!

[DaveH]

Sure, Dave. Nice duck BTW!

A wink does not mean you are not trolling...you win, here are my responses.

1.  I have no clue why you asked this question.  It has nothing to do with anything I've said.  I didn't see any cupcakes or trash last year and don't really know why you think it is a big deal anyway.  Somebody got excited about their friends racing the CT, so what?

2.  The only way I would call out somebody for a rule infraction is one on one, and privately.  It very well could turn out the circumstances are not understood and going public cannot be undone.  It's more likely I'd do nothing.  It wouldn't affect my ride one way or another.  I've been 2nd in events before in exactly this situation (twice that I can think of).  I've been in events where there was a huge amount of drafting by many.  I just don't care... I prefer ITTs anyway if I'm really gunning a route.

Now put your dictionary down and get back to business with your scale.

[Done]

Alright, Dave, it's a wrap! While I vigorously disagree with you on the role of rules in ultra-racing events, I appreciate it that you've made your position clear. I presume that you don't want me to answer the rhetorical question you posed above ("so what?"), but if I'm wrong please ping me offline.

In the end, it's Stefan's call on how he expects us to play the game out there. I strive to live up to what I interpret as some very high standards--and I greatly respect those who do the same.

[BL]

As the Minnesota Girl who inadvertently started this whole discussion of trail magic/etc ethics, I'd like to make clear:

1. Yes, the inspiration for my driving to CO to watch the CTR came from learning that my little brother would be riding in it...but I am *not* coming to be his personal pit crew/moral support/whatever. My husband and kids are coming along to camp/hike in the CO mountains for our summer vacation.

2. Sadly, all my thoughts of trailside sloppy joes in the rain and ice-cold Cokes in the sun have now been scrapped. Although I had always intended to be "equal opportunity" to everyone, it was pointed out here that the only true way to do this would be to sit in the same spot for days to catch everyone, and I'm just not THAT into it.

3. But having said all that: if I can concoct a way to surprise all you CTR riders (first to last, inclusive) I will!!

Go CTR riders go!!!

[Done]

It's fun to have spectators, BL, so I'll keep my eyes peeled for you! I hope that you enjoy your vacation!

Don't worry about the tension in the "trail magic" discussion. CTR racers are a passionate bunch, and nothing was intended to be thrown your direction. Your post just happened to spark a few memories of awkward trail magic from last year, and it seemed like a good idea to discuss them in general before the race started.

Before abandoning your plans, maybe give Stefan a ping. The CTR is his race, and he's really the guy who gets the final word--the rest of us are just opinionated ranters.

[DanHickstein]

For the record, I have no moral qualms regarding sloppy joes, and am willing to eat the extras left by those who take the ethical high-road

[sherpaxc]

As someone who is currently on course with two of his best buddies, all I can say is who really cares about all this?  Man, this trail is freaking awesome.  It Bi-polar to the billionth degree.  One minute I hate it and the next I want to live on it. 

No, we're not racing but damn we're having a great time.  We're skipping a couple segments just so we can make sure we hit up segments 22 on to Durango. 

Guy's and gals, don't get caught up in the semantics and ruin such a great thing. 

Plesko really helped me understand that race or tour, just ride your bike and enjoy the beauty of the trail.

We're off from Twin Lakes early in the morning to hitch a ride to segment 18.  We've ridden the other segments before and want to hit the new (and HIGH!!!) stuff.

Holy hell trail above 12,000 feet makes you loopy! 

[alex m.]

Hey all,
Rookie here coming in from Michigan for this years CTR. I just found this thread so I've been catching up on reading and getting excited about it. I rented a spot tracker, gear is all packed up and ready, and fun is about to begin. Trail looks beautiful in pictures. I have a couple of questions for everyone - is the start just down HWY. 67 from Sedalia, or am I way off and it's closer to Denver. Also, is it ok to camp by the trailhead the night before?
Thanks
Alex

[THE LONG RANGER]

I'm currently thinking of doing the CTR, but I  have no idea where my bike is! I'd hate for it to get shipped here on Friday and even think my LBS has time to get it fixed up by Sunday - the wrenches are going through 80 jobs/day! But, ITT'ing sounds like loads and loads of fun in late August. Even the mention of doing the route as a mixture of a cycling/hiking challenge (doing the route without detour) makes my appetite wet - if I could find an appropriate bike to pull it off.

Perhaps I'll see everyone on the starting line, merely as a spectator! Go go CTR'ers!

[Done]

Hey all,
Rookie here coming in from Michigan for this years CTR. I just found this thread so I've been catching up on reading and getting excited about it. I rented a spot tracker, gear is all packed up and ready, and fun is about to begin. Trail looks beautiful in pictures. I have a couple of questions for everyone - is the start just down HWY. 67 from Sedalia, or am I way off and it's closer to Denver. Also, is it ok to camp by the trailhead the night before?
Thanks
Alex

Yep, just up 67 from Sedalia to Ramparts Road. You can also sleep at the trailhead.

[Zach]

Anyone know what opening/closing hours would be for food resupply in Silverton?  Thanks.

[Done]

Anyone know what opening/closing hours would be for food resupply in Silverton?  Thanks.

Silverton Groc.: 7am to 8pm
Restaurants, I don't know.

[alex m.]

Yep, just up 67 from Sedalia to Ramparts Road. You can also sleep at the trailhead.

Thank you very much. See you guys Sunday/Monday.

[ETURK]

For the record, I have no moral qualms regarding sloppy joes, and am willing to eat the extras left by those who take the ethical high-road

LOL! This reminds me as Ramstron, who is coming with me to the Durango start, after I told him I wanted to take close to 7000 calories a day suggested he would help eat it if I can't carry it! Of course thats not my plan at all, but it was funny. 

Upon looking at calories more closely I found I couldn't fit 7,000 a day (even with expensive food choices), but did find it possible and settled with 5,000. Ready to stay strong on the trail!

Two days and departing Durango.....so excited. Looks like we got a crew of 3 on departure. See everyone else somewhere halfway.

[mtbriderz]

Jeez, I guess "Ramstrong" has to chime in on this topic.  I was last out of the finishers.  I saw some trail magic right before Blackhawk Mtn.  It had been pretty well picked over, but there were canned tea, and Busch Light beer to be had.  IMO, this was for hikers and others that may need a "pickmeup".  It was a gracious gesture for those out enjoying the trail, regardless of mode of transportation.   

[Stefan_G]

While this topic always gets discussed ad nauseum, it is pretty easy to distill the conversation down to this:

If you don't intend to follow the 3 simple rules of the CTR, then don't be a part of it!

Each and every one of you is free to have whatever kind of adventure you want on the Colorado Trail any time you want.  If you want sloppy joes and cupcakes provided for you after every segment (I really can't blame you as that sounds fantastic), but that really doesn't fall into the realm of the CTR.  The CTR is all about doing everything yourself.  This simple ethos would put every racer on equal footing with Lance Armstrong and President Obama, should either of them ever choose to race the CTR.  Try to let that thought gel in your head for a bit!

I tend to agree with Toby on the integrity of an event.  And this event in particular.  While it absolutely disgusts me to have to stoop to the level of "policing"  that I had to last year with Nathaniel Gallion, this race is too close to my heart and too big a part of my life to let stuff like that slide.  I tend to put a lot of faith and trust in people that I don't even know for the CTR, and I truly believe that this makes (most) people rise to the challenge.  And likewise, when a bad apple starts rotting - if it isn't thrown out quickly, the good apples might start rotting too.

Looks to be a big race this year.  Good luck to all of you!

-Stefan