2011 Tour Divide

[Slowerthensnot]

Have you planned / worked out the best way to get from Phoenix to AW?

I have a few friends in Tucson that i'll be hitting up for a ride out to AW.... 

[Singlespeedpunk]

Have you planned / worked out the best way to get from Phoenix to AW?

There are various shuttles from Phoenix to AW which is handy as there is not the option of renting a car one way! Have a google for them and I think the ACA has info as well.

Alex

[Marshal]

Do you have the mental toughness or resolve to do the TDR? 

I think, baring serious injury, virtually everyone can grow the required toughness and resolve to finish the TDR.

But, other than injury, why do many drop out during the first week or so?  Or looking from the other end, how does one develop the required mental toughness/resolve to finish?

I think resolve naturally materializes near the top of a pyramid of training, gear selection and route study.

I think each racer has to build a pyramid of physical and mental assets that link together to produce the toughness/resolve required to finish the TDR. 

So, with the simple pyramid model in mind what layer comes first?  Ie: what’s the true base of virtually all TDR finisher’s pyramids?

It has to be physical fitness right?  Some racers all ready have it in over abundance and others need to be developing it.  But without the required fitness base all the resolve and mental toughness in the world soon crumble to true reality.

See how this pyramid model works? 

Ok, so what’s the next level in a TDR finishers pyramid?

[Slowerthensnot]

Do you have the mental toughness or resolve to do the TDR? 

I think, baring serious injury, virtually everyone can grow the required toughness and resolve to finish the TDR.

But, other than injury, why do many drop out during the first week or so?  Or looking from the other end, how does one develop the required mental toughness/resolve to finish?

I think resolve naturally materializes near the top of a pyramid of training, gear selection and route study.

I think each racer has to build a pyramid of physical and mental assets that link together to produce the toughness/resolve required to finish the TDR. 

So, with the simple pyramid model in mind what layer comes first?  Ie: what’s the true base of virtually all TDR finisher’s pyramids?

It has to be physical fitness right?  Some racers all ready have it in over abundance and others need to be developing it.  But without the required fitness base all the resolve and mental toughness in the world soon crumble to true reality.

See how this pyramid model works? 

Ok, so what’s the next level in a TDR finishers pyramid?

Golly Marshal,

Sounding kinna new age Guru! 

The biggest X-factor is always gonna be mental and or acts of god...

Things you for certain you can control...  Gear, understanding the route, physical prep.... mental i'm really not sure.... there's so much to being flexible with your plan as weather and other factors... and then throw in a bunch of random thoughts and see how they eat way at yah....  in 09's south to north being out there alone was way damn hard with having a close friend dieing about a month before and then leading a group ride and having a gentlemen stop breathing in my arms.... trippy stuff to be thinking about for 12+ days.... then throw in rain and a ton of flats.... 

Then again its ez to get caught up in the group along the way as well....

I point to Kent this year... hes proven he has done the route and he pulled the plug... I think the mental game can change year to year and what kind of goals you have. Are you finishing or trying to race or are just touring or some bizarre combo?

Was nice to make that choice last year vs. having the divide make the choices for me the previous years....

i dunno just some random thoughts from the 4 time non finisher....

[phil_rad]

I'm also a TDR - DNFer, my problem was all mental. My gear was dialed in, I was in good physical shape. I didn't think much about the mental aspect of it at all. I made a huge mistake on day two by pushing through to Eureka, MT, from Elkford, BC. That was a 155 mile day. Needless to say I was shot after that effort; physically and mentally. I finally recovered physically after two days but mentally I was done.
Looking back I could have taken a day off in Helena; washing gear and eating. I threw in the towel to quick, cause now I'm chomping at the bit to get back out there and prove to myself that I can do it; I can finish the GDMBR at my race pace. Just my 2 cents.

Phil 

[Marshal]

I know, I know this is 101 stuff to most, if not all………..but as the pyramid builds there might be a layer that strikes home for even the most experienced

First a couple of general comments:
Please bear with me, I am not ‘preaching’; just letting off mental steam about something that interests me. And absolutely no disrespect intended to anyone who has started, but not finished the Great Divide.

Also I am as far from ‘New Age’ or guru as you could possibly get.  I usually think in terms of classical engineering—methodical problem solving. 

And along those lines the pyramid model mentioned here and in my Reply #62 is just a classic analogy for ‘weighing’ key factors in problem solving or project management.  And before this simplistic pyramid analogy can build to key ‘mental factors’ it needs to first address the basic physical layers.

So moving on,
If the 1st layer of a TDR Finish Pyramid (TFP) is physical fitness the next layer has to be ergonomics.  And regardless of bike choice (and some are truly better than others in terms of ‘finishing’ the TDR) one really needs to nail this layer to the wall.

By ergonomics I simply mean how your body fits and interacts with your chosen TDR bike.  Not to over simplify but usually we think of bike ‘fit’ as maximizing power (watts) and minimizing drag.  Ie: maximize ones efficiency/speed.  But for the TFP, ergonomics needs to minimize fatigue and reduce/eliminate injury above all other considerations.

Just like fitness, the 1st layer in our TFP, the 2nd layer, ergonomics, might not even be an issue for some racers.  On the other hand a casual glance at the dnf list suggests it’s a prominent issue for many, regardless of ones fitness level, experience or overall capability.  In mental terms, if the race is no longer remotely enjoyable due to pain or worry about permanent injury one is more likely to make the wise call and stop.
Just ask yourself how many dnf calls can ultimately be traced back to ergonomics as a major factor. 

From the same angle, there are basically just three ways to minimize fatigue and reduce injury. 
1: Stop altogether
2: Reduce the time spent each day in the saddle, and/or ride easier
3: Improve your ergonomics

Personal note: I like many, did not get my ergonomics dialed in 100% and had to both ride less and easier for a period of time.  While it did not quite cost me a finish it did cost me at least 1 day of time and a lot of my enjoyment. 

Next page,
So if physical fitness is the base layer and ergonomic is the 2nd layer what’s the 3rd layer in a TDR Finish Pyramid?

[E nelson]

I think the pyramid structure is too rigid.  Think more organically.  Your physical fitness, resolve, and gear will almost undoubtedly fail at one point or another out there.  You need to know that and expect it.  They will however rarely fail you all at the same time.  Be open to change, and allow one to compensate for another.

Eric

[Marshal]

I think the pyramid structure is too rigid.  Think more organically.  Your physical fitness, resolve, and gear will almost undoubtedly fail at one point or another out there.  You need to know that and expect it.  They will however rarely fail you all at the same time.  Be open to change, and allow one to compensate for another.

Eric

Hi Eric,

Hey, you are jumping ahead……..

Anyway, if you like ‘organic’ models you could use the structure of a tree.  At this point I am still thinking about the roots and trunk of the tree. 

Jumping way ahead to the inherent need for adaptability to finish the TDR one might model how strong roots (physical fitness) and a healthy trunk (good ergonomic fit) might better withstand buffeting winds and storms with out toppling over or breaking in half.

Regardless of the model used what do you think comes next after fitness and fit?

[phil_rad]

I think it would be mental strength. Actually I think mental strength should be at the bottom because no matter how fit you are physically and no matter how well your bike fits you if you don't have the mental toughness you stand a good chance of bailing at some point. Something will happen that throws you off like a mechanical or injury even bad weather. Again, just my 2 cts.

But please keep up your lesson Marshal, I'm open for all thoughts and opinions.

[Slowerthensnot]

I know, I know this is 101 stuff to most, if not all………..but as the pyramid builds there might be a layer that strikes home for even the most experienced

First a couple of general comments:
Please bear with me, I am not ‘preaching’; just letting off mental steam about something that interests me. And absolutely no disrespect intended to anyone who has started, but not finished the Great Divide.

Also I am as far from ‘New Age’ or guru as you could possibly get.  I usually think in terms of classical engineering—methodical problem solving. 

Oh M wasn't ragging on yah.... well maybe a little

Really not not sure when you get right down to it that there may not be one way of thinking to make this thing happen mentally...

[Roland Sturm]

If the 1st layer of a TDR Finish Pyramid (TFP) is physical fitness the next layer has to be ergonomics.  And regardless of bike choice (and some are truly better than others in terms of ‘finishing’ the TDR) one really needs to nail this layer to the wall.

Your lesson is growing on me, this got me a bit by surprise, and, of course, you were absolutely right. I expected something more obvious, like knowledge of the route or appropriate gear (ho hum), but now I'm looking forward to your insights in the next installment because you will have something interesting to say even about route planning and gear selection. 

The role of ergonomics is easily underestimated, especially when you can recover quickly and the body is still more flexible. I've been guilty of that myself until middle age creakiness and stiffness caught up with me. Even back-to-back huge rides with an iffy bike fit don't reveal any problems when you are in your 20s and 30s, although I trust that an extreme event like TD would do it and that may contribute to some DNFs.

Actually, I've only started thinking about TD seriously (rather than, "oh, yeah, would be a nice challenge") since getting a new bike that seems to work unusually well for me in terms of doing long dirtroad rides relatively fast. I toured the WY and CO sections 5 years ago, everything worked fine, but the difference in perceived comfort (and how knees feel at the end of the day) is noticeable. And despite having done a good 100,000 lifetime miles biking on many different bikes, I cannot attribute the difference to anything specific. So more experimenting is in order.

 

[Marshal]

I think it would be mental strength. Actually I think mental strength should be at the bottom because no matter how fit you are physically and no matter how well your bike fits you if you don't have the mental toughness you stand a good chance of bailing at some point. Something will happen that throws you off like a mechanical or injury even bad weather. Again, just my 2 cts.

But please keep up your lesson Marshal, I'm open for all thoughts and opinions.

Saying that mental toughness comes first vs say physical fitness is kinda like the old story about the different parts of the body arguing with each other which is the most important.  (If I remember right the stomach wins the argument in the PG version of that old story and something you sit on wins in the PG-13 version)  Anyway, interlinking ‘success factors’ can be endless weighted or prioritized in many ways.  

The way I am ranking things is mostly to illustrate how the physical can support the mental. How the little pyramid model shows that virtually all the mental aspects become easier to maintain and deal with if you have the physical fundamentals nailed.  

Think about it like this, two, perhaps even three of the three possible events you mention as needing to be overcome with mental toughness, “mechanical or injury even bad weather” are best dealt with before the race starts..  Note, I am not saying stuff doesn’t happen; it does and it will, ie the need to be tough yet flexible.  

Mechanical:
In general mechanical problems are best avoided all together with by good frame & component choices before you ever toe the line.  Next comes knowing how to make emergency trail side repairs.  And then comes knowing where/how to get parts & service along the route.  After all that comes mental fortitude to successfully resolve a difficult mechanical.  You know, like one that happens at night, in the rain, in the middle of a muddy road, miles from the next possible repair part while low on food.  

Injurys:
Again injury is best avoided altogether with good ergonomics rather than dealing with it from some combination of mental resolve and reduced effort-increased recovery.

Bad Weather:
Even bad weather is best dealt with from ones pre-race prep, Ie: good gear, route knowledge and a strong body provide the knowledge and mental confidence to make optimal judgment calls in semi dicey weather situations.  Before the race ever starts you should have the knowledge and confidence to decide things like; should I lay up and let the road dry out a bit, on this particular section I could push on to the next town that has the 24 hr store, should I bivy up now or later, will my clothing be enough to deal with the altitude/snow of the next pass etc etc ect

Summed up a different way, the base layers of the pyramid are simply what you do before the race to smooth out the bumps, to better the odds to finish or better the odds to finish fast.  

So if we save the mental factors for later what do you think the 3rd pre-race pyramid layer would be

[Marshal]

Oh M wasn't ragging on yah.... well maybe a little

Really not not sure when you get right down to it that there may not be one way of thinking to make this thing happen mentally...

I ‘sort-of’ agree the mental aspects/approaches of a successful TDR will vary.  We might start with different motivations and goals.  But regardless of ones various or diverse motivations and goals at the start line, over the long hard days the GD route sort of planes away all the differences and turns each of us into uncomplicated, dirty, stinking endurance motors. 

We might start from different mental planes but I think we all draw down to pretty much the same mental plane by the end.

[Marshal]

Your lesson is growing on me, this got me a bit by surprise, and, of course, you were absolutely right. I expected something more obvious, like knowledge of the route or appropriate gear (ho hum), but now I'm looking forward to your insights in the next installment because you will have something interesting to say even about route planning and gear selection.  

The role of ergonomics is easily underestimated, especially when you can recover quickly and the body is still more flexible. I've been guilty of that myself until middle age creakiness and stiffness caught up with me. Even back-to-back huge rides with an iffy bike fit don't reveal any problems when you are in your 20s and 30s, although I trust that an extreme event like TD would do it and that may contribute to some DNFs.

Actually, I've only started thinking about TD seriously (rather than, "oh, yeah, would be a nice challenge") since getting a new bike that seems to work unusually well for me in terms of doing long dirtroad rides relatively fast. I toured the WY and CO sections 5 years ago, everything worked fine, but the difference in perceived comfort (and how knees feel at the end of the day) is noticeable. And despite having done a good 100,000 lifetime miles biking on many different bikes, I cannot attribute the difference to anything specific. So more experimenting is in order.

 

Bingo! Want to play?  

You have almost stated the 3 layer.  Want to take a stab at it
3:  ? ? ?
2: ergonomics
1: Physical fitness

warning: if you start playing this game you very well might wind up in Canada (or maybe AW) come next June

[Roland Sturm]

So if we save the mental factors for later what do you think the 3rd pre-race pyramid layer would be

Let's see if I follow your logic: If your previous layer is about trying to minimize the physical wear-out and possible injuries that come from biking, maybe the next is to minimize discomfort. It does not wear you out as badly as pain or injuries - but still accumulates. Riding down a mountain in the rain in a cotton shirt (me two days ago), or heat and not enough water, or mosquitos all night.... Not clear, however, how you would classify prevention as it seems to be a mixture of gear, route knowledge, and on-the-spot choices, so I'm looking forward to your next installment You can study a route at home and still be surprised. My surprise when touring: there is a serious desert in WY.      

Roland

[Roland Sturm]

Bingo! Want to play?  

It can't just be experimenting with different setups in trial bikepacking trips....? You surely have something more elegant here.

[phil_rad]

Marshal, I'll take a guess at the third layer; Gear?

[Marshal]

Marshal, I'll take a guess at the third layer; Gear?

almost

[Marshal]

It can't just be experimenting with different setups in trial bikepacking trips....? You surely have something more elegant here.

No Roland, you pretty much got it 1st try.   Elegance ? naw, oh well…….

So experimentation is the 3rd layer.  But words like ‘practice’ and ‘test & evaluate’ also can be used sum up the 3rd layer.

Experimentation or practice refines and optimizes the 1st and 2nd layers right?  But if done seriously it also refines and optimizes ALL your gear.

A side note on gear choices:
(gear = bike and every physical item you wear or carry.  From your drive train selection right down to the smallest item in your 1st aid kit)

If there was one single proven BEST GEAR selection almost everyone would use the same exact set of gear.  But there’s not and we don’t.  That said there is a well documented, fairly narrow range of gear choices that have been proven to be optimal for a fast TDR finish.
And if you are deliberately using gear outside of the typical range you might want to examine your motivations and goals and see if they include a fast finish.  It’s ok if they don’t, but if so you’re probably deliberately building a weaker pyramid.

So far the first three layers in a TDR Finish Pyramid (TFP) are all very 101 stuff for the experienced multi-day racer or long distance tour’er. And obviously more for some than others.  

But stop and really think deep and hard about how these first three layers interlink to build and support your mental stronghold.  And before we move to that mental stronghold there is one more layer we need to first add and examine.  One that’s particularly important for the TDR.

Any guesses?
4: ? ? ?
3: Experimentation
2: Ergonomics
1: Physical Fitness

[Singlespeedpunk]

4th level? Well with half a bottle of red in me I'll give it a shot (hey, it's the off season!)

4. A motivation. A reason to keep pedaling. A reason to be in Banff / AW on the 10th June. It can be as simple as "I want to win" or more complex and personal.

So while the other 3 levels build on the physical needs to complete it I see that a level of motivation needs to be added to give a basis to the psychological toughness required for the TD.

Alex