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  Topic Name: 2011 Tour Divide Reply #80 on: October 17, 2010, 02:47:12 PM
Marshal


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« Reply #80 on: October 17, 2010, 02:47:12 PM »

4th level? Well with half a bottle of red in me I'll give it a shot (hey, it's the off season!)

4. A motivation. A reason to keep pedaling. A reason to be in Banff / AW on the 10th June. It can be as simple as "I want to win" or more complex and personal.

So while the other 3 levels build on the physical needs to complete it I see that a level of motivation needs to be added to give a basis to the psychological toughness required for the TD.

Alex



Hey Alex,

Its the off season for me to, I am sitting in a hotel room in TX without my bike, working on quotes and posting away.  To get more players I should have started this little pyramid story game when there’s about 6 inches of snow on the ground.  Oh well……

As far as motivation goes the assumption is that one already has enough motivation to at least start the TDR.  When we get there, perhaps the question is not how we all have different motivations for starting but rather what might we do to stay motivated enough to finish? Or as you said "I see that a level of motivation needs to be added to give a basis to the psychological toughness required for the TD".

Anyway Motivation is not the 4th level.  

Hint
I’m thinking of something that’s more tangible and quite specific.
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  Topic Name: 2011 Tour Divide Reply #81 on: October 17, 2010, 06:25:51 PM
Roland Sturm


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« Reply #81 on: October 17, 2010, 06:25:51 PM »

4th level? Well with half a bottle of red in me I'll give it a shot (hey, it's the off season!)
4. A motivation. A reason to keep pedaling.

Alex, yes, I will need some of that bottled motivation after a few days. Red is fine.  

I wish I could just raise motivation, but the best I can do is prepare to avoid losing motivation too quickly on the trail. Marshal will enlighten us soon what the true next level is, so this is just a novice's guess: I would consider the most important next step to be knowing the route. As you become familiar with a trail, doesn't it look to you as if it gets shorter and easier? Always happens to me, can feel like it is 1/3 shorter/easier. Maybe there is a bit of training involved, but the main change is knowledge of the route. Unfortunately, it not realistic for me to ride anything of TD in advance before next year, so the best (and rather poor) substitute would be using maps, google earth, McCoy's book  to develop a game plan and anticipation of what lies ahead.  

Roland Sturm
« Last Edit: October 19, 2010, 08:06:07 AM by fiddlefestival » Logged

  Topic Name: 2011 Tour Divide Reply #82 on: October 17, 2010, 08:21:11 PM
luckylarue


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« Reply #82 on: October 17, 2010, 08:21:11 PM »

How about tenacity or luck?
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  Topic Name: 2011 Tour Divide Reply #83 on: October 18, 2010, 06:53:50 AM
Jeff Tomassetti


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« Reply #83 on: October 18, 2010, 06:53:50 AM »

Well Marshal, Sleep/rest issues are key.
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Jeff Tomassetti

  Topic Name: 2011 Tour Divide Reply #84 on: October 18, 2010, 08:25:44 AM
luckylarue


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« Reply #84 on: October 18, 2010, 08:25:44 AM »

Only partial sarcasm w/ the being lucky comment.
Obviously, water and fuel intake/management is in there somewhere.
Never done anything like this -but have pondered much re: water re-supply issues.
For road rides I usually go 25 mi per large water bottle; For single-track mtb in the high country - around 1/2 that mileage.
So...the td appears to be somewhere in between.  Riders familiar w/ the route must have a big advantage over the rookies in terms of knowing where the next water re-supply and food source is.
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  Topic Name: 2011 Tour Divide Reply #85 on: October 18, 2010, 08:54:24 AM
Marshal


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« Reply #85 on: October 18, 2010, 08:54:24 AM »

Well Marshal, Sleep/rest issues are key.
Yes, these are key from a ‘tactical’ point of view, I have been looking at the overall strategy 

When one looks at some ‘strategic’ mental aspects, say maintaining motivation, then sleep/rest play a big part. At the end of the day all this stuff is interlinked

« Last Edit: October 18, 2010, 09:22:48 AM by trail717 » Logged


  Topic Name: 2011 Tour Divide Reply #86 on: October 18, 2010, 09:19:53 AM
Marshal


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« Reply #86 on: October 18, 2010, 09:19:53 AM »

Level 4 in a TDR Finish Pyramid

For #4 I am going to use fiddlefestival’s word’s---“route knowledge”

I also think that for most of us good route knowledge, built on in-depth study, supports your confidence and leads to correct judgment calls.  Knowing your water, food and sleep options for each and every section/day will let you confidently make good, quick choices day in and day out.  And that eliminates much of the constant ‘worry’ factor.  Some racers have a laid back approach to studying the route and that’s fine if it suites their mental approach.  But without a doubt the typical rookie can, and will, ‘lose or save’ 2-4 days with poor or good route study.

So there it is, the first four layers that interlink to provide a stable foundation to the much more difficult ‘mental’ aspects of a fast TDR finish

4: Route Knowledge
3: Experimentation
2: Ergonomics
1: Physical Fitness

So…there are only two layers left, both ‘mental’.  And both start with the term ‘maintaining’

Any guesses
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  Topic Name: 2011 Tour Divide Reply #87 on: October 18, 2010, 09:24:20 AM
Marshal


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« Reply #87 on: October 18, 2010, 09:24:20 AM »

Only partial sarcasm w/ the being lucky comment.
Obviously, water and fuel intake/management is in there somewhere.
Never done anything like this -but have pondered much re: water re-supply issues.
For road rides I usually go 25 mi per large water bottle; For single-track mtb in the high country - around 1/2 that mileage.
So...the td appears to be somewhere in between.  Riders familiar w/ the route must have a big advantage over the rookies in terms of knowing where the next water re-supply and food source is.
Well luck does play a part.  If you get good luck you roll as far and as fast as you can with it.  If you get bad luck, well that’s where mental flexibility layered on top of good pre-race prep comes to play

And water and food management, like the sleep and rest management comment one post up all critically important from the tactical point of view.
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  Topic Name: 2011 Tour Divide Reply #88 on: October 18, 2010, 12:26:12 PM
phil_rad


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« Reply #88 on: October 18, 2010, 12:26:12 PM »

I'll take another stab; being flexible and  being able to adapt.
 
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  Topic Name: 2011 Tour Divide Reply #89 on: October 18, 2010, 01:13:24 PM
Singlespeedpunk


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« Reply #89 on: October 18, 2010, 01:13:24 PM »

So…there are only two layers left, both ‘mental’.  And both start with the term ‘maintaining’

Any guesses

Maintaining pace - not taking days off / long meals / sight seeing?

But I could be wrong...the Cycles Gladiator 2007 Merlot is damn fine Smiley

Alex
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  Topic Name: 2011 Tour Divide Reply #90 on: October 18, 2010, 06:14:25 PM
Jeff Tomassetti


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« Reply #90 on: October 18, 2010, 06:14:25 PM »

maintain positive energy
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Jeff Tomassetti

  Topic Name: 2011 Tour Divide Reply #91 on: October 18, 2010, 08:15:31 PM
Marshal


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« Reply #91 on: October 18, 2010, 08:15:31 PM »

Ok, let’s get all mental, mystic and inscrutable (sorry for the length)

The last two pyramid layers are:

6: Maintain your Motivation
5: Maintain your Race Focus

So the whole TDR Finish (fast) Pyramid, top to bottom is:

6: Maintain your Motivation
5: Maintain your Race Focus
4: Route Knowledge
3: Experimentation
2: Ergonomics
1: Physical Fitness

Note: I know I know, it is sort of silly to try to condense it all into just 6 layers, especially the last two (substitute your own as best fits you).

However the main point of the whole exercise is to get you to think about how deeply the first four layers interlock in multiple ways to support one’s mental resiliency. 

Basically I think we all start the TDR with plenty of mental resolve, tenacity, toughness, flexibility, whatever on day 1.  There are exceptions, life happens on the way to the start line and sometimes we really don’t have the excitement and desire we originally planned on.  And for the most part I think if you reach NM you will have so much momentum you will not dnf due to mental issues. (dnf’s in NM seem to be mostly illness)

So assuming we really have nailed the first 4 layers and are all excited and motivated to finish what happens to some?  What changed for the ‘early’ dnf ‘s? 

I do think many, if not most, early dnf’s can be traced to a weakness of some kind in the first 4 layers.  And of course its many times something combined with plain ol bad luck.  But some dnf’s do seem to be more of a mental fold. 

Rather than try to guess about other racer’s thought processes let me toss out a few personal view points.  Like all mental mumbo jumbo these may or may not ring true.

Race Focus
Best maintained with? (fill in the blank for you)   One thing that helps me maintain race focus is just constantly remembering that I am in a race.  Hey, I am not there to take lots of pictures, share life experiences, admire the wild life, enjoy long meals etc etc.   I am there to get from point A to point B in the least amount of time balanced against the fact that I have to repeat the same thing tomorrow.  I do take time to stick my head up and smell the flowers, in fact I do so many times each day.  I think they smell all the more intense in metered doses.  But basically I balance on the edge of my happiness, pleasure and joy in riding along in such striking surroundings against my pain and effort to do so quickly.

Maintaining Motivation (External vs Internal)
First let me say we all have external pressures that might help motivate or might even de-motivate us.  Basically this external stuff is how we perceive what others may or may not think of our actions.  Ie: perhaps we seek someone’s respect or approval per our accomplishment, perhaps we fear seeing our failure reflected back at us in someone else’s eyes.  You get the point.  And while these external motivations might be overwhelmingly strong when we start do they stick with you?  I think when the chips are down these external motivations usually fade away and we are left with just ourselves, our bike and our ‘internal’ motivations.

So here is a snap shot of some of my ‘internal’ TDR motivations. (Again, fill in the blank with your own)
If I have a good day, ie I stayed focused and accomplished what I set out to do it feels good.  This simple daily dose of satisfaction, based on small, simple accomplishments mixed in with the joy of the ride itself is its own reward.  But this daily reward also helps me maintain enough motivation to get up and do it again the next day. 

Also bad weather, bike issues and such might make for a bad day but just getting though it with good judgment calls is it’s own reward.  And if the effort and reward are not always equal (it does seem to get progressively harder the longer you are out there) momentum and the desire to finish should carry the day.



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  Topic Name: 2011 Tour Divide Reply #92 on: October 18, 2010, 08:42:54 PM
Marshal


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« Reply #92 on: October 18, 2010, 08:42:54 PM »

Humm, I want add a bit to my last two pyramid layers:

6: Maintain your Motivation
5: Maintain your Race Focus

#5, ‘Maintaining your Race Focus’ also includes forcing your mind to basically ignore anything that distracts you from your daily goals.  For me it also included my ongoing attempts to catch up to the racer ahead, or stay ahead of the one right behind (it helps if you ‘enjoy’ the friendly competition, both with yourself and with others)

#6, ‘Maintaining your Motivation’ I used my early race position to goad myself to try harder.  The first few days I was way ahead of my initial expectations, then later I wanted to hold on to my new expectations. Or you might want to group up.  You might let your race focus slip a bit to stay with a group.  What you lose in race focus you might re-gain plus some, in group support.  This is sort of what accidentally happened to me when Mat caught up to me later in the race on Marshall’s pass.

I could go on and on but to reiterate my main point, the mental stuff, what ever it might be for the individual racer, is just a lot easier when built on top of solid layers 1-4.

ok, I am done (cheers in the background)
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  Topic Name: 2011 Tour Divide Reply #93 on: October 19, 2010, 04:32:45 AM
Jeff Tomassetti


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« Reply #93 on: October 19, 2010, 04:32:45 AM »

Thank you Marshal!
I am on the fence for 2011. I got a reality check when I toured from Banff to Jackson last year. 80-100 mile days were physically difficult for me, (mostly knees - ergonomics)  although the bike/backpack had about 10lbs more on it than the racers carry. (However, my Butt held up fine!)
  I am trying to determine if "racing" the route is something I "need" to do for me. Internal motivation is hard to sort out at this time.
 I would strongly suggest that anyone who is thinking about this adventure go hop on ANY bike for a week and ride 10 hours a day solo away from the cell phone etc. and see how they feel. It is a lot cheaper than going to Banff and bailing in Whitefish. Better yet, ride some part of the route for a week as a preview. Jeff
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Jeff Tomassetti

  Topic Name: 2011 Tour Divide Reply #94 on: October 19, 2010, 02:42:21 PM
Marshal


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« Reply #94 on: October 19, 2010, 02:42:21 PM »

Thank you Marshal!
I am on the fence for 2011. I got a reality check when I toured from Banff to Jackson last year. 80-100 mile days were physically difficult for me, (mostly knees - ergonomics)  although the bike/backpack had about 10lbs more on it than the racers carry. (However, my Butt held up fine!)
  I am trying to determine if "racing" the route is something I "need" to do for me. Internal motivation is hard to sort out at this time.
 I would strongly suggest that anyone who is thinking about this adventure go hop on ANY bike for a week and ride 10 hours a day solo away from the cell phone etc. and see how they feel. It is a lot cheaper than going to Banff and bailing in Whitefish. Better yet, ride some part of the route for a week as a preview. Jeff
If you decide to race it you have a huge bank of experience to draw from.  And you basically have stated what you would need to do

The easy stuff:
•   Refine-test-refine your ergonomics (bty, Kinsio Tape was a bit of minor magic for my knee and achilles issues—worth investigating)
•   Eliminate the backpack, lighten up – that alone could go a long ways in making 100+ days physically doable.

The tricky stuff:
•   Motivation (I think you need to be really committed to 'racing' to fully enjoy the experience, but thats just me)
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  Topic Name: 2011 Tour Divide Reply #95 on: October 20, 2010, 12:09:36 PM
LyndaW


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« Reply #95 on: October 20, 2010, 12:09:36 PM »


The last two pyramid layers are:

6: Maintain your Motivation
5: Maintain your Race Focus

So the whole TDR Finish (fast) Pyramid, top to bottom is:

6: Maintain your Motivation
5: Maintain your Race Focus
4: Route Knowledge
3: Experimentation
2: Ergonomics
1: Physical Fitness

Awesome post Marshall!
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  Topic Name: 2011 Tour Divide Reply #96 on: October 20, 2010, 12:33:20 PM
Jeff Tomassetti


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« Reply #96 on: October 20, 2010, 12:33:20 PM »

Somewhere in all the 2010 Tour Divide discussions, someone listed all the bikes on the tour. Can anyone direct me to that post?

I am planning to purchase a ti hardtail 29er for the race. I am considering the Salsa El Mariachi Ti 29'er. 80 mm or 100 mm shock? Does anyone have an opinion on this or other suitable 29ers?

Thanks!
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Jeff Tomassetti

  Topic Name: 2011 Tour Divide Reply #97 on: October 20, 2010, 01:03:35 PM
patrickTsai


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« Reply #97 on: October 20, 2010, 01:03:35 PM »

great posts marshal. I wish i had that list to prepare for the TD. I did not prepare well for my go at it. before the race I didn't open any map past montana. my lack of route knowledge definitely tacked on a few days. eric i totally agree that adaptation is huge when you are on the route. sometimes i feel the td is not only a race but a test of character. if you are stubborn and can put up with a lot of $h!t you'll do just fine.
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  Topic Name: 2011 Tour Divide Reply #98 on: October 20, 2010, 02:28:15 PM
DaveH
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« Reply #98 on: October 20, 2010, 02:28:15 PM »

Humm, I want add a bit to my last two pyramid layers:

6: Maintain your Motivation
5: Maintain your Race Focus

Bravo for breaking it down in such a logical way.  This method speaks to me loud and clear.

Do you see a clear dividing line between layers 1-4 and 5, 6?  Prep and race execution is how it looks to my eye.  To keep with the pyramid structure you could use colors as a differentiator. 
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  Topic Name: 2011 Tour Divide Reply #99 on: October 20, 2010, 04:50:45 PM
Marshal


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« Reply #99 on: October 20, 2010, 04:50:45 PM »

Somewhere in all the 2010 Tour Divide discussions, someone listed all the bikes on the tour. Can anyone direct me to that post?

I am planning to purchase a ti hardtail 29er for the race. I am considering the Salsa El Mariachi Ti 29'er. 80 mm or 100 mm shock? Does anyone have an opinion on this or other suitable 29ers?

Thanks!
I used a Carver Ti 29er, I believe it's the best bang for the buck in Ti to be found anywhere in the US


That being said I think just about any brand Ti 29er HT is right up there as the 'right' choice for the TDR
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