2011 Tour Divide

[Area45]

Another rookie TD racer here. I sent in my LOI tonight and I plan to see you all in Banff in June. Thanks for all the info that's available here. Tons to do in just a few months.

Errin
Alhambra, CA

[BobM]

Does anyone know what the Ram-Wigwam campground is like (just after Cabin Pass at the junction of Cabin Road and Wigwam Mainline in the Canadian Flathead)?  It's supposed to have a table and toilet.  I'm wondering if it has bear boxes or if the outhouse is big enough to sleep in. 

Bob

[Mathewsen]

Does anyone know what the Ram-Wigwam campground is like (just after Cabin Pass at the junction of Cabin Road and Wigwam Mainline in the Canadian Flathead)?  It's supposed to have a table and toilet.  I'm wondering if it has bear boxes or if the outhouse is big enough to sleep in.  

Bob

The road (cabin pass) is officially called Ram creek Rd at that point. I have seen the table when cruising by (with the Eureka, MT Subway on my brain), but not the toilet. I wouldn't count on it being like our more posh MT Hiltons. The campsite vibe is 'primitive'. That area is dank down in there, too, so if the toilet's made from wood, it could be dank and 'stank'...and maybe maxed.

Can you speak to a schedule that would place you there for an overnight? If this is night 2 for you, i would urge you to make the push to the border. As you know, overhead is always far less if you're not looking for water, carrying breakfast for day 3...not to mention the grizz factor there. IMO, the only good night's sleep between Sparwood and Roosville is the Butts cabin. With all the pave between Elkford and Flathead Pass, Eureka is not as far (time-wise) as it may seem. There's approx. 40mi of flat pavement in there. Get a 0530 start from Elkford and don't dawdle in Sparwood and you should be close to the US by darkness. It may be 140mi but it's not so bad with the exception of Cabin and Galton passes. Ksanka Inn is a nice Eureka carrot, too.

[BobM]

Thanks Matthew,

Just trying to determine options.  I cannot think of any way I can make it to Sparwood on Day 1 at a reasonable hour, given my abilities.  If I am physically unable to make Sparwood Day 1 I have my doubts about being able to get to the border Day 2, which leaves Sparwood or Corbin on Day 2 (not nearly far enough) or Butts Cabin (could be occupied already on a Saturday).

[Marshal]

Thanks Matthew,

Just trying to determine options.  I cannot think of any way I can make it to Sparwood on Day 1 at a reasonable hour, given my abilities.  If I am physically unable to make Sparwood Day 1 I have my doubts about being able to get to the border Day 2, which leaves Sparwood or Corbin on Day 2 (not nearly far enough) or Butts Cabin (could be occupied already on a Saturday).

Hi Bob,

I had these exact same concerns for 2010, ie getting stuck out in Flathead on night 2.  (And if Butts cabin is occupied you either beg to be let in or bivy out with the cuddly bears)

The key for the mid to lower pack racer, as you realize, seems to be making Sparwood for night 1.  But with a 9:00am start and 140 miles, this can be a mild to hard push on the first day for the mid pack and lower racers.

BUT, if you make Elkford in time to stock up for dinner on night 1 (and food for all of day 2) you can then make Sparwood quite late and still be set, food and mile wise, for day 2.

So imo making Elkford before they close up is the real key to the Canada section!! (NA for the faster racers)

Once you get to Elkford you can quickly re-supply, push on to the top of the pavement, eat a meal there and then on to Sparwood at a more relaxed pace. (mostly down hill with lot of pave)

If you roll into Sparwood way late, you can stealth camp in relative bear safety and then roll out early and push on to Eureka by night 2. (or maybe even find a room in Sparwood, if you play your cards right).  Plus, by re-stocking in Elkford you can exit Sparwood early, before anything opens, to ensure you make Eureka in a timely manner.

A plan to make Elkford before everything closes and then on to Sparwood might include--set a firm but maintainable pace right from the start , skip all the day 1 picture taking, don’t waste much ‘stopped’ time eating, talking to or waiting for other racers, make a 10 min max stop at Boulton Creek Trading Post. Ie: put on your best race face for day 1 and 2

Anyway, it makes for a hard day 1 but this strategy worked well for me………..

[Mathewsen]

...which leaves Sparwood on Day 2 (not nearly far enough) or Butts Cabin (could be occupied already on a Saturday).

"Best-laid plans of mice and men oft(en) go astray" (on account of creature-comforts); ie. where to camp/eat and how to avoid reducing your miles by 'settling' is TD's greatest challenge...and why if one chooses to use motels, one will never realize their (timed) potential.

[BobM]

"Best-laid plans of mice and men oft(en) go astray" (on account of creature-comforts); ie. where to camp/eat and how to avoid reducing your miles by 'settling' is TD's greatest challenge...and why if one chooses to use motels, one will never realize their (timed) potential.

Words of wisdom indeed!  However, the trick is to figure out, without being familiar with the area or grizzlies, what is a relatively safe bivy spot and where I'm just a bear burrito.  I would prefer not having to ride until past midnight as night riding is generally slower and it messes up my schedule for the following day, so I will continue to try to sift through the alternatives.  Ideally I guess I need to get strong enough by June to make it to Eureka in 2 days, as that is by far the best way to do it.

[patrickTsai]

I remember seeing stephen, cricket and jacob camped out here, after climbing through the clearcut:  CANADA MAP B 126.3 (203.2) – Emerge into clearing which is the end of Phillips Rd. Navigate through the scattered clearcut deadfall and continue onto gravel road.

they had a nice fire going in an open flat area. looked inviting.

[Done]

Bears aren't really that big of a deal up north. I grew up in Jasper National Park, and I spent a lot of time in bear country over the years. Grizzly and black bear attacks at night are extremely rare, and generally occur when people are being careless and/or ignorant. As long as you keep ALL of your food away from your bivy at night, you are extremely unlikely to have a problem. I think that there's a slightly greater risk while riding--bears don't like being surprised, which can happen pretty easily when they are faced with a bike popping out of nowhere at 20 MPH.

To learn how to deal with bears, check out Stephen Herrero's book "Bear Attacks: Their Causes and Avoidance." The first part of the title sounds bad, but the key is the last word: "Avoidance." With a little knowledge of bear behavior, you'll sleep a lot better at night--which seems like a good idea on the TD!

[Blackhound]

What time does Elkford stores close up in an evening? (Not ordered my Canada maps yet).  I was thinking of this as a decent target for night one as a mid to back packer.  I don't want to be 'racing' to hard in the first 100-150 miles of a 2,750 mile race, but I would want an early start on day 2.  Sparwood sounds to far for day 1 for me but I have no intention of restricting myself if I am feeling good.

 

[Mathewsen]

What time does Elkford stores close up in an evening?

back in the day when i was prologue-ing canada for the GDR and overnighting at tobermory cabin or elkford, the grocery store closed at 8pm and the restaurants at 9pm, however, those times may have evolved. hot tip, the campground in town has hot showers and if the picnic pavilion is not rented (rare), you can bivy inside it (three walls), either on one of several picnic tables or on the concrete floor. it's very common to see rain in elkford by evening so the pavilion is quite nice for early day 2 motivation

[BobM]

What time does Elkford stores close up in an evening? (Not ordered my Canada maps yet).  I was thinking of this as a decent target for night one as a mid to back packer.  I don't want to be 'racing' to hard in the first 100-150 miles of a 2,750 mile race, but I would want an early start on day 2.  Sparwood sounds to far for day 1 for me but I have no intention of restricting myself if I am feeling good.

 

Elkford mini-mart hours 5am to 10pm last year.  Phone 250-865-2415
Elkford Motor Inn was $113.  Phone 250-865-2211
Hi Rock Inn was $94.
Elkford Campground Phone 250-865-4470

There're also a market and a general store, but those closed at 6pm last year.

Sparwood A&W (250-425-0345) was open 6am to 10pm and Sparwood Express Mart (250-425-2616) was open 5am to 10pm.

Bob

[Blackhound]

Thanks for quick response Bob.  Even if one did not reach Elkford until after 10 and overnighted here one would not be in Sparwood until after 6am anyway.  So not a problem.

[Norb]

Re: TD Maps

I've seen several comments regarding map updates.  I ordered and received my map set in December but only after I was assured by two different folks at ACA that they are the most up to date with no reprints expected before June.  Sure hope this is the case....................

[6thElement]

That's intereseting to hear, I'm sure I'd read on here that all of the US maps were due to be updated this year in April?

[Marshal]

Big bad scary BEARS, oh me, oh my

Elkford is a very doable target for night 1, assuming the basics ie: no bike problems and you are practiced at riding your fully loaded bike for 8+ hours.  All one need do is maintain a steady pace without excessive stops.

Sparwood is also very doable target for night 1 , assuming the basics mentioned + you are either a strong rider or willing to push on to around 10-11 pm. (note the mentioned 10:00 pm close times for Sparwood re-supply, I got there right at 10 and wished I had pushed for an 5 extra mins and hot fast food, but no big deal....as I had a room waiting)

Anyway imo, the real question is not night 1 but rather night 2. ie: Sleep early at Butts cabin, camp out with the bears, or reach Eureka (or for the fast ones, quite a bit beyond Eureka)

There is quite a bit of individual tolerance and perception involved with biving in high population bear country.  Your personal preference about this can have a lot to do with how you approach nights 1, 2 and beyond.

Personally I worked hard all the way to Pinedale WY to avoid any open bivy in prime bear territory. 

[Spoonie]

Personally I worked hard all the way to Pinedale WY to avoid any open bivy in prime bear territory. 

which is a good 8-10 days in?  At least down here, the bitey things don't rip your arms off...

Cheers
Craig

[Mathewsen]

which is a good 8-10 days in?

There is Gmap of GDMBR griz territory that color-codes the route by likelihood of encounter: http://tinyurl.com/22tfhdh

Note: kml file is so big map is broken up into 3 pages. It doesn't yet include the final Griz territory: Yellowstone & the Winds

My rule of thumb is, try not to sleep in red zones.

I have, and will sleep in orange zones, but prefer yellow zones so i can afford to be sloppy (read: lax) with bear protocol.

[Area45]

There is Gmap of GDMBR griz territory that color-codes the route by likelihood of encounter: http://tinyurl.com/22tfhdh

Note: kml file is so big map is broken up into 3 pages. It doesn't yet include the final Griz territory: Yellowstone & the Winds

My rule of thumb is, try not to sleep in red zones.

I have, and will sleep in orange zones, but prefer yellow zones so i can afford to be sloppy (read: lax) with bear protocol.

Now that is a useful map.

Thanks,

Errin

[Jilleo]

Camping in bear country is more about whether or not you can sleep soundly, rather than whether or not bears are actually going to bother you. Black bears are much more likely to approach camps looking for food than grizzly bears, and even then the chance is relatively small. You're much more likely to encounter a bear when moving than to have a bear encounter you while you are sleeping, especially if you cook, eat and store food a fair distance away from where you've bedded down. So the "perceived danger" is a much bigger deal than "actual danger." Because if you're up all night freaking out about bears, it really wasn't such a good camp site after all. Personally, I feel comfortable sleeping outside in bear country. Statistics are heavily on my side.