2011 Tour Divide

[DenisVTT]

I have a question for the veterans out there.

What do you think of the 2x10 vs the 3x9 set up for the tour?

I know it is a personal choice but I am looking for perspective from those that have ridden the climbs. From what I have read, there is a lot of climbing but the grade of most of the climbs isn't horrible (i.e. It was carved out for steam locomotives).

Thoughts?

Never done the race, but having ridden the New Mexico portion of the course, I'd say a big ring is definitely a plus!

[krefs]

I have a question for the veterans out there.

What do you think of the 2x10 vs the 3x9 set up for the tour?

I know it is a personal choice but I am looking for perspective from those that have ridden the climbs. From what I have read, there is a lot of climbing but the grade of most of the climbs isn't horrible (i.e. It was carved out for steam locomotives).

Thoughts?

You're correct that a lot of the climbing isn't particularly steep, but that's not the case everywhere. One of the Flathead climbs is painfully steep, some of the MT climbs on old mine roads are quite steep, and there are some very steep climbs that stick in my mind from a few different parts of Colorado. NM has a few steep ones, too. Singlespeeders have clearly shown that granny gears aren't required, but I sure enjoyed having mine. 2x10 could work, but it really depends on the gearing. On a 26er, it could work, but on a 29er, you essentially lose the two lowest gears, and the granny isn't all that small anymore.  Also think about the ease of getting replacement 10-speed parts and the decreased durability of a 10-speed chain.

[Marshal]

Sharing Rooms

My room for night 1 did get swamped with other racers.  To be honest I was a bit grumpy and reluctant about sharing my room with so many other racers.  I knew it would blow up my oh so perfect ‘pre-planed’ 1st recovery night.  I was also concerned the hotel management might object to all those bikes and bodies in 1 room.  In my defense, I had pushed myself pretty hard to get to Sparwood and I was very very concerned about my ability to make it to Eureka by night 2 and wanted everything to stay on plan. 
On the other hand once I just took a deep breath, let go of my specific recovery plans, relaxed a bit I was soon back in the right mental place about the whole experience.  And it was cool to sit back and watch and listen to all the other racers discuss day 1 as we all slowly drifted off to Z land.

Personally I wound up sharing rooms 2 more times during week 1.  And I shared a room 2 times during the last week.  Twice I offered/volunteered a spot to a late arriving/passing racer.  Twice I negotiated a shared room with a racer where we had hooked up ‘on-route’ late in the day.

Not counting cost, there are plus and minus’s to sharing a room. 
The typical sharing of war stories, meals , route speculation and general TDR bonding is quite enjoyable in it’s own right.  And for some this sharing and bonding can increase one’s confidence, especially during the 1st week.  Later in the race it’s nice just to talk and share and laugh with someone who understands the pain, effort and loneliness. 
However from a pure ‘race’ perspective it’s nice to not need to be considerate of another racer.  Working on your body and bike while naked, in and out of the bathroom and cramming food in your mouth is a tad bit easier when solo.  Also the simple choices of lights off and wake up time can become discussed/assumed issues.  Sharing a room can also impose real or assumed expectations on riding together the following day(s).

All in all I got the best of both TDR worlds, lots of solo time with 100% race focus and some unlooked for sharing and companionship late in the race to help me along to the finish.

[BigPoppa]

You're correct that a lot of the climbing isn't particularly steep, but that's not the case everywhere. One of the Flathead climbs is painfully steep, some of the MT climbs on old mine roads are quite steep, and there are some very steep climbs that stick in my mind from a few different parts of Colorado. NM has a few steep ones, too. Singlespeeders have clearly shown that granny gears aren't required, but I sure enjoyed having mine. 2x10 could work, but it really depends on the gearing. On a 26er, it could work, but on a 29er, you essentially lose the two lowest gears, and the granny isn't all that small anymore.  Also think about the ease of getting replacement 10-speed parts and the decreased durability of a 10-speed chain.

This is pretty much what I was thinking but sometimes it's hard to turn away from how sexy that setup looks..... 

Guess I'll just stick with what is familiar, 3x9. Maybe I'll be able to con my wife into letting me get XX for a race bike next year (as if she will ever forget how much the tour is costing!).


Thanks for the help.

[sshep]

Hah, Marshall!  I remember that room was crammed full and it was the last one in Sparwood.  Eric Nelson, Heather Dawe and I slept on the sidewalk at the strip mall next door.  No matter how crammed you were, it was less fun outside.  As soon as we settled down, they started blasting in a mine somewhere close and it kept me up for an hour more.  After that, teenagers drove by harassing us until about 2 am.  Then, a cop comes through the lot and turns to shine his lights on us.  I just knew I was going to have to get up and negotiate to stay, but I lay still with one eye open and waited.  By some miracle, he left us alone.

[Marshal]

Hah, Marshall!  I remember that room was crammed full and it was the last one in Sparwood.  Eric Nelson, Heather Dawe and I slept on the sidewalk at the strip mall next door.  No matter how crammed you were, it was less fun outside.  As soon as we settled down, they started blasting in a mine somewhere close and it kept me up for an hour more.  After that, teenagers drove by harassing us until about 2 am.  Then, a cop comes through the lot and turns to shine his lights on us.  I just knew I was going to have to get up and negotiate to stay, but I lay still with one eye open and waited.  By some miracle, he left us alone.

oh man, what a way to start--I had a certain 'big truck' picked out as my "if all else fails backup spot".
I wonder if it would have kept me under the locals radar?

With the number of starters for 2011 it will be important for a 1st, 2nd and 3rd choice preplanned for Sparwood imo.  However by the 2nd & 3rd nights there are so many options as to be a non issue

[Marshal]

Camping up on the Great Divide

For someone from overseas, or perhaps any who have never spent ‘backcountry’ time out ‘West’ , it occurs to me to comment a bit on ‘camping up’ along the Great Divide Route.  This is all just my opinion-so just take it with a gain of salt

#1 Read what the ACA says about it.  Also their maps include all the official ‘resource’ info

#2 I believe Matthew has suggested trying to bivy up most night’s vs searching out a cabin, hotel room or other ‘shelter’.  Imo each racer should spend some thought on what type of ‘experience’ they want from the TDR.  How one pre-plans (or not) to spend the nights will impact both their overall experience and also one’s finish time

#3 Some Stealth camping reflections:
I would recommend you never never never stealth camp on private land or property. Doing so is disrespectful, illegal and also damaging to future TDR’s.  With just a little effort you can avoid ever needing to camp up on private property so please don’t.  Remote, empty but private barns and abandoned buildings are tempting in the rain but unless it is a true weather ‘emergency’ its best to avoid this temptation—use some cautious judgment in these cases and be aware of possible consequences.  Note: A bit of route study will show any extended areas along the route where you might have to ride a ways to cross private land.

For public property in a town or small community stealth camping is generally prohibited.  If possible ask permission.  If you do pick a spot in town, late at night when no one seems to be around, be prepared to be rousted in the wee hours by bored local law enforcement.  They might let you stay, they might make you move on.  Generally that’s about the worst that will happen—not a big deal but a hassle to pack up and move—best to avoid if at all possible. 

For ‘remote’ public property, work sheds, open tractor cabs, picnic shelters, bathrooms, basically anything that is remote, is publicly owned and might provide shelter –while not recommended it’s each to their own imo.  In the cold or rain I have done it.  It’s never my 1st choice but I don’t have a problem with it and am sure I will to do so again.  As long as it’s remote, public and does not interfere with anyone I see no harm.

Finally for public land that is not posted ‘No Camping” it is 100% legal/ok to stealth camp just about anywhere.  ie: if public and not posted as being prohibited it is understood you can camp there. And if you get off route, out of site from the road there will be no issues with anyone noticing or bothering you. 

There is so much public land along the route, with a little effort you can almost always find a 100% legal spot to bivy up on public lands.  So using un posted, 100% legal public land should be your 1st choice for most stealth camping. 

Side Note: Posted/Marked non-stealth camping—private or public--just follow the rules that are posted

[Spoonie]

With the number of starters for 2011 it will be important for a 1st, 2nd and 3rd choice preplanned for Sparwood imo.  However by the 2nd & 3rd nights there are so many options as to be a non issue

...just another reason to head north??

Cheers
Craig

[Mathewsen]

Camping up on the Great Divide...There is so much public land along the route, with a little effort you can almost always find a 100% legal spot to bivy up on public lands.  

I chopped your full quote Marshal, but all good advice. TD is intended to be the Race Across Convenience Stores, as Jeff Potter so creatively coined it, but not a race across cheap motels--which incidentally are not so cheap.

My camping op. ed: Unless it's actively raining, or you've been rained all day and need to dry out your gear, there's no good reason not to camp. TD should be about falling asleep under the stars! Our fondest memories will not be of motel decor. Motels should be reserved for our weakest moments (note for gamesmanship: if riders you're actively GC-jockeying with start talking of a motel for the night, ride on and lay down a classic TD 'motel attack'). Works every time.

Regarding the ethics sharing motels, it's difficult to remove the Grand Depart element from Solstice Divide racing, but a 'golden question' of common-start self-supported bikepacking races ought be, what would the ITTer be doing? In the case of motels, the answer is clearly, not sharing motel rooms. Should sharing rooms prohibited in TD? Nope. Should there be over-capacity free-for-alls in rooms throughout the route? Probably not--that could even burn bridges. Calculated room-sharing is one of those gray areas, especially when one rider has the room reserved and 'waiting' for slower riders to simply show up for, invest no 'sweat-equity'. This scenario can be a real motivator for someone struggling to make it into the next town. Is it inappropriate stimulus? Hard to say, but sweat-equality ought be emphasized, especially the mental variety. Lot's of purity is sacrificed in the name of common starts--especially as they grow to numbers like TD has seen, but lines do need to be drawn somewhere. I personally think if challengers would simply refuse to motel it, many many of the purity dilemmas will be eliminated. More nature = more natural selection, right? survival of the fittest?

Here's a parting hark to the roots: The person who conceived of the Grand Depart felt strongly enough against the emotional crutch of [too much] 'community' during Divide racing as to have once opined he thought it borderline inappropriate to benefit from another racer's hard-earned, warm campfire at the end of the day in camp! So, take that FWIW. Maybe the TD golden question w/ respect to these lesser principles is, How do you want to live your race? Regarding the bivy question, if you wait to dedicate to the bivy until you're ambivalently staring the "Vacancy, cable TV" neon in the face, you may well succumb to lodging every time...and with sleeping in towns comes a whole `nuther set of complications.

[THE LONG RANGER]

I personally think if challengers would simply refuse to motel it, many many of the purity dilemmas will be eliminated.

Put in my that, uh, camp. Bivvying keeps the soul honest. Keep things simple, including the trip's bill.

[TruthRider]

"How do you want to live your race?"

I think I might put this on a shirt.

[6thElement]

I want to camp as much as possible, nothing I like more than mountain views and star lit skies. Here's hoping for a dry adventure!

[BobM]

Thanks Matthew & Marshal for the tips!

For our international racers, a bit of additional clarification:  Forest Service campgrounds are generally not for the convenience of tent campers, they are mainly set up for people with large motorized devices like pickup campers, caravans, etc, or at least that is true of the Eastern forests I'm familiar with.  These official campgrounds will provide a gravel pad, fire pit, outhouses, and sometimes a hand pump for water and will charge you between about $7 and $15 per night.  Some of the big camper units might be running their generators, maybe all night long.  Some might be all night partiers.  Because not everyone is as conscientious with garbage disposal as they should be, these campgrounds can sometimes be bear magnets as well.

However, anyone can pull in, use the outhouse and pump and then roll another 1/2 mile through the forest and find a place to camp - "dispersed camping" is how the FS usually refers to non-campground camping.  See

http://camping.about.com/od/campingadviceandtips/a/dispersedcamping.htm

for more info.

Bob

[JF-mtnbiker]

Matthew Lee wrote:
"Unless it's actively raining, or you've been rained all day and need to dry out your gear, there's no good reason not to camp. TD should be about falling asleep under the stars! Our fondest memories will not be of motel decor. Motels should be reserved for our weakest moments"


I couldn't agree more. I never studied and obsessed about the TD in a way that I had to know where every coke machine or hotel was along the way. (I was a late entry who wanted to see if i could do it, live from day to day, and contemplate a faster attempt later) I didnt know about backpacker.net until a month before the race so I came up with my own kit. I was a little worried about getting lost so I had GPS but didn't need it so the batteries lasted almost the whole race. I actually enjoyed following the ques.
The attraction to me was the process of making it on my own and adapting to each days differing challenges on my own. Call me romantic if you want but being out there alone was when the TD truely took hold of me and is why not one day goes by that I don't reflect upon being out there. I never knew where I was going to end up, I had no goal for the day or a certain place to get to. (ie. a hotel) I just sat my sore, blistered ass on the seat, focused on making my next turn, gazed at the mountains and rode. When my body said i was done for the day, I crawled under a doug fur and was in a coma 2 minutes later. I hoteled it a couple nights because I was shivering wet, had wet gear. In a hotel, you shower, go out to eat, grocery store, unpack, wash and dry, repack, work on bike... Not what I envisioned for my TD experience.  Besides, It was always good comedy to roll out of my bivy and see where I ended up sleeping. Everyone is different and has different reasons to be out there. Records, mid life crisis, can I make it, daily updates to their blog, you name it. But I hope you 2011'ers don't take yourselves so damn serious that you won't stop for 30 seconds to get a sunset pic, sit in the middle of the road to slowly dine on your snickers bar or enjoy a sound nights sleep in some thin, crisp air under the stars. It doesn't get much better.

[Done]

The attraction to me was the process of making it on my own and adapting to each days differing challenges on my own. Call me romantic if you want but being out there alone was when the TD truely took hold of me and is why not one day goes by that I don't reflect upon being out there. I never knew where I was going to end up, I had no goal for the day or a certain place to get to. (ie. a hotel) I just sat my sore, blistered ass on the seat, focused on making my next turn, gazed at the mountains and rode. When my body said i was done for the day, I crawled under a doug fur and was in a coma 2 minutes later. I hoteled it a couple nights because I was shivering wet, had wet gear. In a hotel, you shower, go out to eat, grocery store, unpack, wash and dry, repack, work on bike... Not what I envisioned for my TD experience.  Besides, It was always good comedy to roll out of my bivy and see where I ended up sleeping. Everyone is different and has different reasons to be out there. Records, mid life crisis, can I make it, daily updates to their blog, you name it. But I hope you 2011'ers don't take yourselves so damn serious that you won't stop for 30 seconds to get a sunset pic, sit in the middle of the road to slowly dine on your snickers bar or enjoy a sound nights sleep in some thin, crisp air under the stars. It doesn't get much better.

JF--Excellent post! It perfectly matches my CTR experience last year. Thank you for sharing!

[6thElement]

But I hope you 2011'ers don't take yourselves so damn serious that you won't stop for 30 seconds to get a sunset pic, sit in the middle of the road to slowly dine on your snickers bar or enjoy a sound nights sleep in some thin, crisp air under the stars. It doesn't get much better.

The experience of being out there is exactly what I'm after, good stuff

[wookieone]

Marshall, curious, where did you find info on private property along the route, the maps mention large swaths of PP,yet I would like more. Sure would be great info. Was thinking of cross referencing with some gazeteer's but the detail isn't so good either. By the way thanks as always for sharing everyone! Good stuff. I hope I am strong enough to stay out of hotels, never like those things except when the adventure is over. Bivy Bivy Bivy. jefe

[wookieone]

Oh and to Kurt and everyone else, It Is Good To Be Here!

[THE LONG RANGER]

But I hope you 2011'ers don't take yourselves so damn serious[...]

No way prepare for war!

[Marshal]

Marshall, curious, where did you find info on private property along the route, the maps mention large swaths of PP,yet I would like more. Sure would be great info. Was thinking of cross referencing with some gazeteer's but the detail isn't so good either. By the way thanks as always for sharing everyone! Good stuff. I hope I am strong enough to stay out of hotels, never like those things except when the adventure is over. Bivy Bivy Bivy. jefe

Here is a 'quickie' list of areas where you will be riding through extended sections of private or restricted land.  NOTE: Legitimate ‘camp’ areas in these sections vary from ‘almost none’ to ‘abundant’.

To find camping spots along these sections you have three basic choices:
1)   pre-plan / learn before hand about valid options (This was my main approach)
2)   keep riding till you find a legitimate spot ( I did this several times)
3)   take a risk on getting away with a uncertain location  (I did this several times)

Each side of any town or residential community

US border to Grave Creek Rd

Whitefish to Ferndale

Each side of Ovando

From Basin to past Butte

Elkhorn Hot Springs to Idaho Border

Jackson Lake area

Green River to Boulder

Rawlins to Medicine Bow forest

Each side of Steamboat

Each side of Kremmling area

South Park

Cuba to Pietown

Each side of Silver City

South of I 10 to US Border