2011 Tour Divide

[wookieone]

Thanks as always. Marshall you just are the man! Seriously, if I get the start and the finish of the TD this year it will be on account of folks like you!!! Even after several bikepacking races there is still so much to learn.

Yet I still can't get over the exposure of not bringing rain pants, knickers something, nor the water capacity thing. Sure if you know every water source along the whole 2700+ miles, but I do not. After some study it seems like some long dry sections to traverse and the risk of them not all being there as well. I remember the call ins from a few years ago when Matt couldn't get water cause two reservation stores were closed due to power outages. He did some monster miles on like one water bottle, in New Mexico that could kill me. But It is something to ponder.....Jefe

ps in reality it is the # of miles that makes me question every thing that has worked for me in the past.

[Spoonie]

To those heading north...

I've got the Cues, just wondering how you went about flipping them?   I was hoping a search and replace  left/right might work but I think I might have to spend a bit more time on it than that.

It certainly occurred to me (and should have done so much earlier) there may be a lot of lost detail missing simply because the description (such as "up a steep climb... towards highway 15") ain't gonna be so helpful in reverse...

I see some time spent comparing between the Cue's and the Maps looming...  one way to get to know the route at least

Cheers
Craig

[wookieone]

If I take cues I plan on rewriting them anyways, maybe, but I am going N to S Anyways I always like to interject my own thoughts, words, details when dealing with cues, that's what I would do if I were you, it also tends to put the info in your head when you re write, my 2 cents. Jefe

[Spoonie]

I always like to interject my own thoughts, words, details when dealing with cues

Oh for sure... it's a shame they don't come in a spreadsheet (excel say) for easier munging.   I like to add the differential distance between turns and actual arrows.  I find it much easier to see  "<--- 16.3km"  bouncing down the road then trying to read "172.5km - after the large tree and some waffle you need to take a left turn".

I've seen some variations I really like in different guide and trail books and some I don't.   The ones that interject "interesting facts" in between the cues I find annoying, but I've seen a few with little symbols for the services (water, shop, food, hut, toilet, camp) tacked to the end.   

Chris P I think said he'd just take maps next time and ditch the cues, and it would seem Marshall is a fan, but especially in a foreign land I have no clue about, I'm not so keen on being reliant on a single electronic thingamajig, especially when I've had my GPS die on me once, leaving me with but a map and a compass ... but maybe I'm just being silly.

I think I must have been smoking crack when I thought (or perhaps hoped?) this would a straight forward process though.  I was even dreaming up ways to automate it!!

Cheers
Craig

[wookieone]

Yeah, I am debating too, GPS only, GPS with Maps, GPS with maps and cues, or Two GPS? After reading, watching others attempts it seems GPS is the way to go, I know from races like the AZT and Grand Loop that they are a saving grace, it sucks to get lost when you are trying to make time. But the whole GPS failure is another paranoia of mine, without some sort of back up I'd feel quite stupid out there without a map. Still not sure which way to go....see if I can get another gps for cheap it is still lighter than just the maps alone! But it's more crap and more $$$. See which way the wind blows...Jefe

[krefs]

But the whole GPS failure is another paranoia of mine

A GPS is convenient if you're familiar with using one, but it's by no means at all necessary. The ques are quite detailed, so if your cyclometer is properly calibrated (or better yet, allows mileage to be adjusted on the fly), it's all you need. A GPS, a computer, and ques would be all the backup you need. The maps are nice because they show elevation profiles and services available in towns (and phone numbers for those services). It's all good stuff to have, but you can replicate it in whatever form you want. But your paranoia isn't unwarranted...doing something this big without some sort of navigational backup is just asking for trouble.

[Marshal]

ps in reality it is the # of miles that makes me question every thing that has worked for me in the past.

I went through the same process—I questioned over and over, back and forth, most of what I had learned in my prior multi-day racing.  

In the end ,most of my final ‘take it or leave it’ questions always came back to how hard I wanted to ‘race’ vs ‘ride to finish’.  

Even though I am not a super fit or watts/strong rider, within my own personal limits I leaned mostly towards a go-for-broke race strategy, both from a pre-race gear selection choice and day-to-day real time judgment calls.

Just my opinion, but after doing it I now can see that the more one adjusts their gear down to the bare min aiming at a go-for-broke race strategy, the easier it is to finish.  The whole race my best 1st & last concept worked well for me from my gear to mental approach.

If you can do the miles like Matt, or some of the other truly fast/efficient racers it becomes easier to stretch out the ol water spots.  

But I think the wise strategy for a typical rookie is to have 4-6 L basic capacity.  And much much more important is to have maps, or as I did profile sheets, pre-marked with all the MAIN and secondary water sources.  Marked up in such a way where you can ‘at a glance’ see the miles till the next ‘for sure’ water spot.  This is also where the individual choice to treat/filter or not comes in.  

Anyway, the pre-marked map or profile sheet is really what allows one to go a bit lighter on the water carried most days, say 1.5-3 L max with the necessary re-fills along the way.  And you just occasionally bulk up to 6L + a spare bottle or two for the drier sections.  

With such a system all that is left is for Hot or Cold temps + time of day vs current location to complete the knowledge needed to determining one’s next logical re-fill amount/location.

[Slowerthensnot]

Oh for sure... it's a shame they don't come in a spreadsheet (excel say) for easier munging.   I like to add the differential distance between turns and actual arrows.  I find it much easier to see  "<--- 16.3km"  bouncing down the road then trying to read "172.5km - after the large tree and some waffle you need to take a left turn".

I've seen some variations I really like in different guide and trail books and some I don't.   The ones that interject "interesting facts" in between the cues I find annoying, but I've seen a few with little symbols for the services (water, shop, food, hut, toilet, camp) tacked to the end.   

Chris P I think said he'd just take maps next time and ditch the cues, and it would seem Marshall is a fan, but especially in a foreign land I have no clue about, I'm not so keen on being reliant on a single electronic thingamajig, especially when I've had my GPS die on me once, leaving me with but a map and a compass ... but maybe I'm just being silly.

I think I must have been smoking crack when I thought (or perhaps hoped?) this would a straight forward process though.  I was even dreaming up ways to automate it!!

Cheers
Craig

I really think the maps, and a computer works quite well...  backwards cues aren't to hard to make and if you have the map to reference its not bad... maybe spent an hour of head sratching and maybe a mile off route in 09 with the distance I covered that year   just my .02

[Slowerthensnot]

also well be ordering a vdo computer you can set them to count down: http://www.vdocyclecomputer.com/en/produkte/puls_hoehenmessung/z3pclink/funktionen/?flash=1&part=fahrrad

[Jilleo]

Yet I still can't get over the exposure of not bringing rain pants, knickers something, nor the water capacity thing. Sure if you know every water source along the whole 2700+ miles, but I do not. After some study it seems like some long dry sections to traverse and the risk of them not all being there as well. I remember the call ins from a few years ago when Matt couldn't get water cause two reservation stores were closed due to power outages. He did some monster miles on like one water bottle, in New Mexico that could kill me. But It is something to ponder.....Jefe

ps in reality it is the # of miles that makes me question every thing that has worked for me in the past.

I'm in agreement with you on this one. Rookies who try to mimic a bare-bones set-up by eschewing rain gear or water-carrying capacity are taking a big risk. Of all the bike riding I did in Alaska, including in temperatures down to 35 below and hours on end in extra-wet-slushy-sleety Juneau, I have never been as cold on a bicycle as I was a couple of times during the Tour Divide, caught out in big thunderstorms. It was especially bad when I was stuck in the mud and couldn't ride. Pushing the bike through peanut butter was like a core workout — amazingly hard work but not cardiovascular enough to work up much heat. I was a shivering mess. And I had quite a bit of rain gear and extra warm clothing with me. I can't imagine leaving it behind. I'd much rather go sans sleeping bag/mat/bivy than sans-rain gear.

I also had the capacity to carry 9 liters of water. I started out with that much the morning I set out across the Great Divide Basin and drank it all. Of course, that much ins't completely necessary even there because there are at least a couple of possible water stops in the Basin. But I was grateful to have it.

[Marshal]

But the whole GPS failure is another paranoia of mine, without some sort of back up I'd feel quite stupid out there without a map.

If I could think like a PhD when exhausted (or at any time for that matter) maybe cues and a cyclocomputer would be ok.  

I left the maps home and went with home made profile sheets and GPS

Here is my spare navigational aid/GPS unit (and spare battier carrier)

ha—it was still all warped up from the TDR.  I would sell it but might be needing it for some April riding.  It was extra money but was not that bad on ebay

I also had the cues on my smart phone but that was mostly just to set my mind at ease as in many sections they would have been 100% worthless without the corresponding cyclecomputer

[Slowerthensnot]

On a lighter note:

Trying to decide on this years divide fashion? Elvis, Bowler, Hawaii 5-0 ?

[6thElement]

I was planning on starting with a beard for the colder sections up North and then finishing with a bigger beard a few weeks later

[Marshal]

I'm in agreement with you on this one. Rookies who try to mimic a bare-bones set-up by eschewing rain gear or water-carrying capacity are taking a big risk. Of all the bike riding I did in Alaska, including in temperatures down to 35 below and hours on end in extra-wet-slushy-sleety Juneau, I have never been as cold on a bicycle as I was a couple of times during the Tour Divide, caught out in big thunderstorms. It was especially bad when I was stuck in the mud and couldn't ride. Pushing the bike through peanut butter was like a core workout — amazingly hard work but not cardiovascular enough to work up much heat. I was a shivering mess. And I had quite a bit of rain gear and extra warm clothing with me. I can't imagine leaving it behind. I'd much rather go sans sleeping bag/mat/bivy than sans-rain gear.

I also had the capacity to carry 9 liters of water. I started out with that much the morning I set out across the Great Divide Basin and drank it all. Of course, that much ins't completely necessary even there because there are at least a couple of possible water stops in the Basin. But I was grateful to have it.

Just for the sake of argument, I think Jill’s experience of getting extremely cold in NM can also be viewed from the opposite point of view.  (And I am just thinking about rain pants—not the rest of a typical rain kit, rain jacket and some type of head cover etc etc)

Even with ‘rain pants’ she became chilled, possibly to a pre-hypothermia level, and this sort of proves that carrying that particular piece of gear, rain pants, was just extra weight.

Personally I also ‘needed’ my rain knickers one particular day in MT—but in retrospect I could have gotten by with less or none, it would have been a bit painful but safe enough. 

Looked at from another angle-- with or with out rain pants what could Jill have done had she reached the tipping point—ie: would clothing/rain pants have ‘saved’ her? Or would she have had to take some type of body warming action independent of the particular set of clothing she happen to have with her?

There are so many variables to becoming chilled in typical TDR terrain –one’s clothing/layers, time of day, amount of recent calories, recent and current work effort, riding speed-grade, wind, altitude etc etc.  I think all would agree, in a TDR type environment gear alone is never the full solution to a safe outcome.

Anyway all gear choices are a ‘balancing’ act of some type and the ‘point of balance’ is different for each according to ones abilities and experience. 

Also I guess I should be a bit careful in the type of comments/recommendations I make online to someone like Jefe, who has more actual multi-day race experience than I do or most potential TDR rookies for that matter vs a reader who has much less backcountry experience.  IE: If you want or need rain pants better bring them!!


Last word on it:
If done again I would compromise on rain pants and modify my rain knickers to be like, or buy, something like this:  http://rainmates.us/home.jsp 
I really do think this would be a good ‘race’ approach to this particular piece of gear..

[BigPoppa]

On a lighter note:

Trying to decide on this years divide fashion? Elvis, Bowler, Hawaii 5-0 ?

5-0 alllllll the way!

[Spoonie]

Last word on it:
If done again I would compromise on rain pants and modify my rain knickers to be like, or buy, something like this:  http://rainmates.us/home.jsp  
I really do think this would be a good ‘race’ approach to this particular piece of gear..

Not that I'd know, we've been in drought for the last 10 years, I don't own anything that resembles rain pants and if there was any part of my "race" prep that'd let me down it would be here, but I would have thought if you had the conditions Jill described, you're going to get cold and wet no matter what you're wearing.  the Chaps style pants, even more so... ??

I'm a little paranoid about it though.  Being cold and wet is something that's not entirely within my comfort zone and hard for me to get "Experience" on.   It would first have to get cold, and more importantly, wet...  Then again, I've raced at Canmore in July with storms and sleet, maybe I don't need to?

Dealing with the Basin concerns me less.  It's two fixed end points within a days ride across reasonable terrain.  It would seem to me it's a straight out hydration rate vs temp & weather vs time problem (though the prevailing winds could be a problem if I end up heading north .  I'd be more worried about rocking into a small town hoping for a guaranteed source to find it shut up as Jefe pointed out

The GPS thing I'll have to think about.  I've only used my Garmin as a glorified bike computer in the past and there's some psychological comfort to having the maps anyway.  I don't know, but there's a hurdle I need to get over to start following just an arrow on a screen.   That and the thought of having to change/charge batteries every day as one more thing to worry about kind of bothers me...

But again, maybe I am just being silly

Cheers
Craig

[Jilleo]

It really is a matter of what you think you need. It certainly is different for everyone. I'm still of the opinion that if I did not have my full body wind layer (because let's be honest, in a strong thunderstorm that's all rain jackets and pants really are), my uncomfortable situations had the potential to become dangerous. Protecting oneself from windchill can make the difference between "cold" and "hypothermic." The weather of '09 got everyone in different ways, but I wore my rain coat or pants at least once during all but four days, and the arm/leg warmers at least part of each day but one (the last). I finished the experience valuing every piece of clothing I brought, including the one fleece glove that I sadly lost outside Butte (I never replaced it, but often switched hands with the one glove that remained.) But as Marshal pointed out, others get along just fine with minimal clothing. Any decisions should be based on personal comfort levels.

I do think you could get through this race without a sleeping bag. That would be a risk in itself, necessitates a few considerably long days to get through remote sections, of course costs more money, arguably takes up more time than camping, and some might say goes against the spirit of the TD, but it could be done — especially if you had enough warm clothing to just keep moving through most situations, "emergency" bivies in outhouses and post offices wouldn't be necessary. It can be done. But would you leave the sleeping bag at home just because it's possible? I know I wouldn't. That's the way I feel about rain pants.

[Blackhound]

I have bought some lightweight pants (Montane DT Atomic) which weigh 7.25oz including bag as an extra layer as well as rain proof.  I do feel the cold though even in the relatively mild East Midlands of England so packing warm gloves and maybe overshoes as well.

For navigation I will have it all, Garmin gps which I am learning to use, maps cues and computer.  I feel more confident with maps as I can 'see' the route and as a former orienteer they feel comfortable to use.  Some reading material as well.  The gps will help me in the situations when I am unsure if a particular track is the one on the map.  I also have just fitted a vdo X2 computer which has the navigation facility.

So long as I do not get to cold to think straight I should be ok!

[luckylarue]

On a lighter note:

Trying to decide on this years divide fashion? Elvis, Bowler, Hawaii 5-0 ?

Of course you're talkin old school 5-0, right?

I'd recommend the Guayabera Afro-Cuban/Calle Ocho look myself.

[BobM]

On a lighter note:

Trying to decide on this years divide fashion? Elvis, Bowler, Hawaii 5-0 ?

I think you should go with Militia, maybe get a better reception in some of the small-town bars.