2011 Tour Divide

[Marshal]

I'm curious with tubeless if folks would still carry two tubes for a bad case scenario.  One tube?  None at all and plan to hoof if necc?  

Yrs ago during my 1st Leadville 100, when I first started running tubless and did not know not to run way way to high air pressure I carried 1 tube but on the same blow out needed 2 as I blew my spare tube up with a CO2 and slick/unset bead.

Ever since then I can’t ever bring myself to not bring 2 tubes.  (usually light weight 26ers from Specialized)

But for the last 5 yrs or so, in all my multi days and general every day riding, I have used exactly 1 tube out on the trail –lightly sliced side wall in my 1st AZT 300.  Knock on wood and all that.  

My spare tubes wear out in my frame pack—say, that reminds me, I better check um, they have been in there since Banff 2010----

[Marshal]

Broken parts? I can attest to that. In 09 I sliced the tread surface on my rear tire in the middle of the basin (Atlantic City) (!). I spent two hours with patches and dental floss stitching it together. I wrapped duct tape that I had rolled up around my down tubeand wrapped it around the rim and tire- and reapplied every 10 miles all the way to rawlins, where I had to wait 6 hours for a bike shop to open. I carried a thimble and dental floss -good stuff.

In 10 I carried a spare tire which I didn't need, but instead suked my derailleur apart and wore twisted a chain beyond repair. Then I rode from Ashton Flagg Ranch to Steamboat with front brake only, hydraulic failure. My front derailleur broke-aluminum casting cracked. JB weld in there.

Crazy thing is I ride with newish stuff (within a month of race).

Yup in '11 I will carry a spare der ,chain and tire.  I already had hose clamps as an emergency lockout for the fork. Surprised I haven't needed that yet. All years I carried a fiberfix spoke (for drive sde) as well as regular spokes, replacement bolts for everything (don't forget seatpost binder bolt) and spare chain links, tire boots,velcro strap for bags. I also carry monster zip ties so I can tie cogset to spokes in case of ratchet failure.In my case all of this will never be enough- my rim or something will probably break. For everyone else they should be just fine.

Maybe My strategy should be to ship a complete spare bike to every PO BOX on route. Just kidding.

I predict you will have smooth mechanical sailing in 2011. 

However considering the current signup sheet I also predict a gigantic battle in 2011. 

Wow, I envy both your TDR ability and chance to mix it up with this year’s field. 
(and how about that field, and still more to sign up I am sure!!!)

Here’s no major mechanics to ya—best of luck in 2011!!!

[Nathan Jones]

I'm just going to leave this here.

http://nukularsuiciders.com/RAAM/

Some stoke for 2011.

[Auke]

Here a newbie-question from the Netherlands...., still considering competing TD 2011 or doing the Arizona Trail.

* Just read the regulations-sections on the Tour Divide website and its says "SPOT GPS Trackers are strongly recommended but not required".
So is it all a matter of trust when doing the Tour Divide if one doesnt carry a SPOT-device? It means you can check the route of people carrying a SPOT, but you have to believe someones blue eyes not to have taken a short cut when not carrying a SPOT. Is that true?

* Furthermore I couldnt see it is obligated to wear a helmet. Shouldnt that at least be mentioned in the Rules? Personally I always (when cycling alone that is) cycle without helmet and I know it is not wise and sensible, but when organizing a underground race like the TD, shouldnt you at least require it? Especially with the fatal incident in mind of last years race.

* Will there be a start-limit for the TD? Looking at the startlist for this year there will be a big group of racers (probably the DVD Ride the Divide effect J). And there could turn up even more people who not sign in at the website, but just show up at the start. It will be good to suppress feelings of bearanoia when traveling in such huge groups through the forests, but it will also feel like a big peloton in the beginning (and no drafting allowed). And sure about 50% will not make it through the first week, but at what point will this event be too popular?

* This year I see also people starting South at Antelope Wells. A start from the South has some advantages: more tailwinds, better temperatures and water resources in NM and less snow in Canada and Montana. Cant really think of any disadvantages when thinking back of last year going south to north….

* What is your experience sleeping in a bivi at the TD. Does it in anyway effect your physical need of a good rest compared to slkeeoing in a tent? For example when sleeping in the rain or frreezing temperatures? As you can see I never bivied (is that a verb?) before .

Anyways, haha, reading back my remarks I might just take the TD a bit too seriously. Above all riding the Divide is about having a great experience. Meeting lots of friendly people, seeing the most amazing scenery and totally feeling one with nature and the landscape. On top of that it will be a mental and physical challenge that will stick to you the rest of your life and will alter your mindset if you have never done a thing like this before….. Happily these aspects can not be regulated  .

Grtz
Auke

[Mathewsen]

Just read the regulations-sections on the Tour Divide website and its says "SPOT GPS Trackers are strongly recommended but not required".
So is it all a matter of trust when doing the Tour Divide if one doesnt carry a SPOT-device? It means you can check the route of people carrying a SPOT, but you have to believe someones blue eyes not to have taken a short cut when not carrying a SPOT. Is that true?

That's right. TD is a gentleperson's bet; nothing to win or lose but honor. If someone wants to cut the course just to have their name listed several numbers higher on an obscure results page, then so be it.

Furthermore I couldn't see it is obligated to wear a helmet. Shouldn't that at least be mentioned in the Rules? Personally I always (when cycling alone that is) cycle without helmet and I know it is not wise and sensible, but when organizing a underground race like the TD, shouldnt you at least require it? Especially with the fatal incident in mind of last years race.

There is no mandatory gear list for TD b/c TD is not a proper race in that respect. Who would do the checking? There is no on-the-ground infrastructure or enforcement of any TD rules beyond peer-pressure, and SPOT-managed course compliance. The idea is that everyone accepting the challenge is a big kid on their own individual time trials out there. If unqualified, unfit, or unprepared people show up to attempt to ride the GDMBR on their own time/dime, it's their skin. No one else is responsible for their actions. The idea that a website or some silly movie made them do it is just plain 'horse-puckey'.

Will there be a start-limit for the TD? Looking at the startlist for this year there will be a big group of racers (probably the DVD Ride the Divide effect J). And there could turn up even more people who not sign in at the website, but just show up at the start. It will be good to suppress feelings of bearanoia when traveling in such huge groups through the forests, but it will also feel like a big peloton in the beginning (and no drafting allowed). And sure about 50% will not make it through the first week, but at what point will this event be too popular?

This is a tough question with no easy answer. It sort of comes back to the issue of TD not being a proper race. How can something that's not sanctioned, not permitted, and does not have officials present at any point on course impose start-limits? A TD grand depart is nothing more than a flash-mob scheduled months in advance. All TD organizers can really do is decide who--on the back end--deserves to make the final rankings list (arbitrary, to be sure).

It does become a sticky business when too many people foreign to the solo, self-supported ITT concept Stamstad bequeathed us try to line up for a 'race', but what is any one person to do about it? Group Divide racing is a creature unto itself. Is it one that should be corralled or herded? Hard to say. I personally believe these growth issues must run their course. If too many people line up in Banff this year, the lesson will be learned and experience will prevail in coming years. More ITTs will pop up, multiple grand departs may develop, things might change, collectively.

This year I see also people starting South at Antelope Wells. A start from the South has some advantages: more tailwinds, better temperatures and water resources in NM and less snow in Canada and Montana. Cant really think of any disadvantages when thinking back of last year going south to north….

Yep, this is neat to see and I'm excited for its 'sideshow' to the Banff grand depart.

Anyways, haha, reading back my remarks I might just take the TD a bit too seriously. Above all riding the Divide is about having a great experience. Meeting lots of friendly people, seeing the most amazing scenery and totally feeling one with nature and the landscape. On top of that it will be a mental and physical challenge that will stick to you the rest of your life and will alter your mindset if you have never done a thing like this before….. Happily these aspects can not be regulated  .

Yep, experience, first, racing secondary; best not to let racing ruin the experience, which is why i only recommend those with a very healthy (perhaps veteran) attitude towards racing take in the Divide route 'by race'.

[Auke]

There is no mandatory gear list for TD b/c TD is not a proper race in that respect. Who would do the checking? There is no on-the-ground infrastructure or enforcement of any TD rules beyond peer-pressure, and SPOT-managed course compliance. The idea is that everyone accepting the challenge is a big kid on their own individual time trials out there. If unqualified, unfit, or unprepared people show up to attempt to ride the GDMBR on their own time/dime, it's their skin. No one else is responsible for their actions. The idea that a website or some silly movie made them do it is just plain 'horse-puckey'.

Okay I understand, but then again, there has been some disqualifications in the past. So I thought a SPOT-device would be required to check the actual time and distance. Or is there strong social control between the racers?

Doing a race is not only about the individual experience ofcourse, it is also about ego, pride and the physical/mental comparison in relation to the other participants. I bet 95% of the competitors will not ride the TD, like the Dalai Lama would do. For me personally to find and push my own physical and mental boundaries on a race like this would only make sense in direct comparison to the other riders..... Dont think I could do it on my own with no direct comparisons to make. Racing, pushing yourselves and building comradeship along the way will only add in a positive way to the experience I think. Therefore I can understand there would at least be some kind of control by using gps-technology.

but

what about Lance? Will he appear at the start now he is retired from professional cycling?

[Nathan Jones]

what about Lance? Will he appear at the start now he is retired from professional cycling?

Let him go for RAAM, he can stay away from the divide as far as I'm concerned! </SNARK>

[Spoonie]

Doing a race is not only about the individual experience ofcourse, it is also about ego, pride and the physical/mental comparison in relation to the other participants. I bet 95% of the competitors will not ride the TD, like the Dalai Lama would do. For me personally to find and push my own physical and mental boundaries on a race like this would only make sense in direct comparison to the other riders..... Dont think I could do it on my own with no direct comparisons to make.

I personally would hope you are wrong with your 95% number... out of curiosity, have you done much in the way of ultra endurance racing before?

If that's what drives you then great, but if it leaves you bitter about whether someone around you has "cheated" or not, or drives you to "cheat" yourself then is this really the race for you?   Even with a Spot, it's not hard to simply turn it off if you wanted to cut the course and certainly I would think over 3 weeks, it wouldn't be worth the emotional energy.

For me at least, wanting to be part of the Grand Depart (N-S/S-N) is about being inspired by those around me to push myself further and harder, and being part of something special.  But I would think that if I couldn't do it alone ('cause chance are I will be... and some ways prefer to be) being part of a "Race" isn't going to help me.   I would have thought ego and pride would get you about 3-4 days, maybe a week in...

Certainly, what I've found, and the part of Ultra racing/riding that I love is ego and pride get left at the door.  no one riding at least cares about what bike you're riding, whether you came first, last, or somewhere in between.   Everyone hurts the same, just some people go faster than others...  Having supported 2 24hr solo world champs was definitely a real eye opener on this.

It's the Ego, pride and what I'd call "the Triathlon set" creeping into 24hr racing here that's lead me to seek new personal challenges.   Heading off in your own head space with nothing but your own goals driving you has been a saviour of my "competitive" cycling...

But each to their own, and I certainly hope I have not been out of line with this post...

Cheers
Craig

[JMeiser]

I know of forks crapping out and a few xt freehub's blowing.... Mcfee cracked a surly km, a few seats, a few seatposts (although i think that was more due to seatpost racks)  Joe tore off a hanger on his fargo.... Thats what i'm aware of

It seems that most are worried about what they've had fail themselves on these rides.  I now carry an extra hanger of some sort as a result of the TD failure.  If you can overcome your paranoia their really isn't that much that will fail out there if you build it, break it in, maintain it, and tour on it.  Don't show up on new, or old parts.  Don't tweak assembling your bike in Banff.  Do test ride it and double check hardware that's been assembled/disassembled.  

Parts typically don't just 'fail', remember there is no such thing as JRA.  It's most important to not put parts under too much stress.  Sidewalls will tear out...Do you really need to rail every corner descending the passes in Montana?  They are fun, but they do stress tires and brakes.  Drivetrains will blow up...Learn to hike at the first sign of bad mud, like that which starts on the Bannack Bench.  Head for the grass, hike or ride around it.  There is no need to try to ride through the muck...That's how Der. Hangers and drivetrains get destroyed.

Riding conservatively, it is very possible to not destroy tires and/or drivetrains.  Ride clean and you may only have to replace a chain, rear tire, and some brake pads.  A middle chainring and/or a front tire could be necessary as well.  

Of course you could be like John Fettis and choose a new saddle to 'try out' in Steamboat...

[Mathewsen]

Okay I understand, but then again, there has been some disqualifications in the past. So I thought a SPOT-device would be required to check the actual time and distance. Or is there strong social control between the racers?

If a challenger chooses to use a SPOT and is tracked live on the TD tracker, the data can, and will be used to verify course compliance. Still, it is not required to carry a SPOT.

Doing a race is not only about the individual experience of course, it is also about ego, pride and the physical/mental comparison in relation to the other participants. I bet 95% of the competitors will not ride the TD, like the Dalai Lama would do.

I would disagree with this percentage, but one thing is for sure, if one can't go it alone, TD is not the challenge one is looking for.  

For me personally to find and push my own physical and mental boundaries on a race like this would only make sense in direct comparison to the other riders

can you expound on what you mean by 'make sense'? There are solo boundaries to push.

.... Dont think I could do it on my own with no direct comparisons to make.

This is how Time Trials generally work. You only have the benefit of past time splits, just as TD offers a wealth of past rider times to pit yourself against. That's why they call it the race of truth, and that's a very real point of TD. can you self-motivate? can you suffer alone? can you bivy alone, can you eat alone? Again, the race is not for everyone. Those who think camaraderie first, racing second are not doing it for the reasons the challenge was founded upon.

Racing, pushing yourselves and building comradeship along the way will only add in a positive way to the experience I think. Therefore I can understand there would at least be some kind of control by using gps-technology.

I'm not sure if those two statements are related or not. Are you suggesting the element of camaraderie should require GPS control?

what about Lance? Will he appear at the start now he is retired from professional cycling?

We hope not for exposure's sake, but i'd certainly welcome him to accept the challenge if it's an experience he's looking for. I'm obviously a believer.

[Mathewsen]

Do you really need to rail every corner descending the passes in Montana?

(in a yoda voice) must plane, must plane! might be why some find it so boring out there.

[JMeiser]

(in a yoda voice) must plane, must plane! might be why some find it so boring out there.

Wasn't boring for me...

[Slowerthensnot]

(in a yoda voice) must plane, must plane! might be why some find it so boring out there.

LOL!

[Auke]

What I missed last year while doing the Great Divide going South to North was the physical challenge (not that it didnt hurt physically, because at times it certainly did, but i didnt have the focus that I know a race can bring). My main objective last year was to experience the beauty of America and to photograph it, and boy, what an experience it was. There hasn’t been a day I don’t think back of cycling through the wide open spaces and the endless forests. Simply nothing compares here in Europe, and certainly not in the Netherlands, which simply is just one big city, compared to the Rockies. And to of the most impressive moments (which couldn’t be photographed) for me was the close (and scary) encounter of a Grizzly and two cubs and to meet the Racers in the Great Divide Basin…… I remember talking with Aidan, Forest and David….. and when I heard in Montana that David had died three days later, it didn’t leave my mind again. I just felt connected to the Race, while just being a tourist going the other way.

So traveling on a bike, doing cycling holidays, photographing, enjoying people and scenery, that is definitely my thing. But I also like doing time trials. I like to push myself physically and mentally, and nothing beats killing yourself in a time trial. It gives me some kind of an adrenaline rush I guess, and I always have in mind this virtual competitor which started one minute behind me. This virtual other is then some kind of a motivator, which I relate to ego and pride….. I bet the Buddha himself wouldn’t care less, if you know what I mean J. But I don’t mean it in a negative way. This ego and pride metaphor lies closely to the feeling of self accomplishment, which I think is a good thing.

So I can imagine that the TD is a mix of a time trial, a survival expedition and a solo cycling holiday. And I can imagine it is also even more fun to find amidst other crazy bikers with a same attitude and mindset. I certainly don’t meet them in my social surroundings J.

And in no way I mean that the element of camaraderie should require GPS control, a bit of a unhappy formulation I guess. I was just wondering how it works when a person is disqualified without having a way of control. I can imagine the SPOT would be a great technical solution and together with some kind of social control, and the honesty and openness of the individual racer than that is good enough. And true, you have to be some pathetic person to lie and cheat about some experience like the Great Divide is.

I wish I could be sure to “race” the Tour Divide this year, it certainly is on my bucket list, but a man has to make choices in life, and there is still lots of beauty to be seen in this world. From what I’ve seen of the Arizona Trail and the National Parks of Utah…., pff, what a hard choices to make J. But then for me it would be another photographical tour and not a race pushing the boundaries of yourself and I kind of missed that on last years gdmbr…. Haha, thinking about it, that camera of mine is also some kind of ego and pride thing, or is it my way of self-accomplishment and trying to capture beauty. I don’t know anymore  . Perhaps it is time to just buy a small pocket camera.

If a challenger chooses to use a SPOT and is tracked live on the TD tracker, the data can, and will be used to verify course compliance. Still, it is not required to carry a SPOT.I would disagree with this percentage, but one thing is for sure, if one can't go it alone, TD is not the challenge one is looking for.  can you expound on what you mean by 'make sense'? There are solo boundaries to push.This is how Time Trials generally work. You only have the benefit of past time splits, just as TD offers a wealth of past rider times to pit yourself against. That's why they call it the race of truth, and that's a very real point of TD. can you self-motivate? can you suffer alone? can you bivy alone, can you eat alone? Again, the race is not for everyone. Those who think camaraderie first, racing second are not doing it for the reasons the challenge was founded upon.
I'm not sure if those two statements are related or not. Are you suggesting the element of camaraderie should require GPS control?
We hope not for exposure's sake, but i'd certainly welcome him to accept the challenge if it's an experience he's looking for. I'm obviously a believer.

[6thElement]

So I can imagine that the TD is a mix of a time trial, a survival expedition and a solo cycling holiday.

I can't wait 

[mkomp]

Mathew,

I accidently started a "new topic" on this when it should be here....I know this was discussed in an earlier thread but I could not find it, are there any significant changes from the 2009 maps besides Canada (Flathead) that will be in the 2011 re-prints this April? I remember something about the Gold dust trail into Como and maybe something new in New Mexico?  The map person at ACA was not sure exactly what would be on the re-prints. If just narrative details then I'm good.   Thanks.

Michael Komp

[caseygreene]

These are the only large updates which may happen on the maps:
1) on section 5 North of Grants, there may be a decent size route change.
2) on section 1 between Wise River and Polaris.

As soon as i figure out the exact changes, ill post them up.

You should be fine just getting the Canadian Section, new narratives, and gps track. Again wait to purchase the narratives until after the new maps come out or else you will get 09 narratives. http://bit.ly/eg9eeu

[annoying crack]

Again wait to purchase the narratives until after the new maps come out or else you will get 09 narratives. http://bit.ly/eg9eeu

Could you please let us know here when the new maps are available. that will get appreciated by many, I'm sure.

[caseygreene]

one more change (thanks matt

3) Through Gila NF between SR 35 and Silver City

[caseygreene]

Could you please let us know here when the new maps are available. that will get appreciated by many, I'm sure.

The new maps and narratives will be available in April(prob late april). I'll definitely post when they're in stock.