2011 Tour Divide

[THE LONG RANGER]

Curious what folks are feeling about the Canadian Flathead and the snow.

Death or Glory!

I am a bit confused, how are we to "race" each other on different courses?

I'm guessing the Flathead route times will be able to be added to the Combined TD GC, where the detour will, well, not, but will be counted for the year's GC. It's a time trial, so no one is really racing anyone else, except the clock, right? Taking the Flathead route will probably automatically make you "lose" the GC, if that's important to you, but put you in the running for the combined GC, which records will also be unattainable. If someone's goal is to make a record time on the course, I don't think this year's Grand Départ is going to be the best time to do it.

I think it may not be the worst idea to do the Flathead with a small group, if not for the high creek crossings. The snow trudges will be difficult, but I'm not worried about going hypothermic or being washed downstream. It'd be nice to be able to, at the very least, walk in a group, locking arms, over any high streams. I'm sure the we can ask for a gloss over the "no help to fellow riders" rule for that one?

[6thElement]

Plus that way the rest of you can flee while the hungry bear grabs the first rider in the group.

My decision will be based on safety. If I don't like what I'm seeing I'm not going to do a 20 mile snow hike or flooded river crossings.

[trebor]

I'm wondering the same. Seems so odd to know going in that there is a "two list" format for the results. Asterisks defining with our without alternates.

I'm of the personal opinion that there should only be one route for a given grand depart. It may change year to year - but everyone leaving on THAT day will know the route - bar none. If the route is the one in the gpx file, then so be it. If that route has serious cause for concern... then, should it be 'the' route?

^^ those are my thoughts... food for thought.

[wookieone]

I guess it does bring us all back the the ITT vs Group ITT debate in some ways. It just seems a recipe for chaos to have two routes, if that is what happens. It may be a hard call to make, take the epic route or go safe. I am really unsure what is best, just want to see some discussion of it before the eve of the start!

But then Rob's point makes me think, yeah the Fernie route is going to be safer and faster, but if you want to have a non asterisk ride then it's the flathead, tough choice.

Jefe

[THE LONG RANGER]

Speaking purely for myself, I want to see the Flathead. The environmental issues surrounding the area are intensely interesting and I want to be one who tells the story of the area to help others understand what's there and why it should be protected.  I'm comfortable that I can do the route safely and willing to backtrack if I find conditions unsafe. I am not going for the GC - are there any rookies that honestly are?

I've been stuck between highly flowing rivers before and I understand and acknowledge the risks. I'm going to go out to the mountains as soon as I can and see how much fun postholing w/a 45+lb bike over a pass in the Rocky Mountains is like and how I feel about losing my balance and potentially hurting my knee or breaking my leg.  I'm totally cool with people who aren't comfortable with doing this route, but I think everyone should be realistic at the potential dangers of the route in total. It could snow on us on any day. Thunderstorms are a complete given and being caught in the wrong place during one can sincerely be a bad position to be in. And other things. "Be Prepared" has been hammered in my brain all the way from Cub Scouts. Let's do it!

[THE LONG RANGER]

And also, I think in the grand scheme of things, no one is really going to care what one web page says about what you did or didn't do some where at some time, so don't base a decision off that. Do what you personally want to do. If inside you're saying "yes", go for it, if not, I mean, don't. We all aren't pressured by sponsors and careers in ultra-endurance border-to-border mountain bike careers, right? 

[wookieone]

Yeah there is no money or fame, thats for sure and I am not saying that I know what we should do, it just seems like a weird situation to have two routes right off the bat. I agree in the big scheme of things this is very very small. But we are doing This particular adventure, not another and therefore we either want to have a set course or others to compare to or motivate us. Otherwise why line up with everyone else? I have to admit when the numbers got high and the snow kept coming I seriously considered going ITT, but I like races. I like lining up with others, meeting folks, bumping into them later on. I also see something in that set date, as in we all have to face the same challenges, at least similar weather, ground conditions, store hours, etc. And my motivation for this isn't having my name ahead of someone's on a website, it is more of a purity of the adventure. I appreciate others comments, keep um coming...Jefe

[mtbcast]

FYI:
MTBCast is still providing call-in coverage this year. I think some people got confused about what I meant by scaling back. Essentially, there's going to be less summary and commentary. I'm moving towards keeping the call-ins as a service to the racers and the fans. Given the huge field this year, necessity likely would necessitate that anyway. If you need the call in number let me know. It's on the website: http://mtbcast.com as well.

[Nathan Jones]

Good to hear Joe!  You rock!

And now on to my feelings on the reroute.

I think this talk of two routes and worry about the GC is mostly pointless.  Last year mid-race everyone had to detour because of the fire in NM and it was a complete non-issue.  Just because the detour is happening earlier in the race this year, it doesn't change ANYTHING in my eyes.  People could have ridden through the fire section last year, I believe it was nearly contained before the racers even got to it.  Someone could have very well ridden it if they wanted to, but it seems all were smart enough to just not bother.  It was re-routed for a reason!  If it's a week down to the TD and Matthew Lee says Fernie alternate, take it if you feel like racing!  If you want the wilderness experience from hell then by all means take the Flathead route.  I will be disappointed if I don't get to do the Flathead this year as I only did the US section last year, but I'll be damned if I'm post-holing through 4 feet of that crap with a bike.  Not what I signed up for, TD is not Iditasport! </rant>

[6thElement]

Things look to be improving in the Colorado mountains...if you have a snow plow/blower in front of you

[riverfever]

John...where did you get that pic from?

[Mathewsen]

John...where did you get that pic from?

i recognize it from here: http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=13631637

[caseygreene]

FYI: Bruce Giroux brought this to my attention today, and i think we figured it out:

GDMBR Canadian Section, Map B(side 2), Fernie Alternate: The narrative/cues are correct, the route line on the map is incorrect:

[6thElement]

John...where did you get that pic from?

I got it from a Colorado friend, linked from the first link below but they're from the Rocky Mountain National Park Public Gallery.
http://303cycling.com/trail-ridge-road-prepares-for-cyclist
http://picasaweb.google.com/117855704395016629211/PhotosTakenByParkSnowplowOperatorsOnTrailRidgeRoadInRMNPOnMay132011?authkey=Gv1sRgCNqSsOmg3aa4Dw&feat=directlink#

Casey,  I'd meant to post about that too after a few hours squinting at topo and aerial in Topofusion when I mapped Fernie a couple of weeks ago, glad to know I wasn't going crazy.

[THE LONG RANGER]

Those photos of the road in RMNP are nothing but incredible. To put some sort of perspective on it, the road *does* top out at over 12,000 feet and it's not maintained during the winter. I'm impressed that more snow hadn't blown off, as the Chinook winds at RMNP have been brutal recently. Then again, this may be where that snow blew into.

[BigPoppa]

i recognize it from here: http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=13631637

Is it just me or does this article make it sound like the TD route goes right through armageddon?

[Nathan Jones]

Is it just me or does this article make it sound like the TD route goes right through armageddon?

Perhaps we should just reroute for some random fire roads through the dakotas, nebraska, and kansas then finally back into NM.

[THE LONG RANGER]

In Colorado, anything below 10,000 feet looks a lot like this:



Anything higher than 10,000 feet, looks a lot like this (this is a serviced route - the snow drifts are mostly from the plow, post holing is doable, albeit not very fun around the peak):



I'm going to try to get out and do some recon of the route between Breckenridge and Salida in a few days. I'm expecting pretty dry conditions, even there, below 9,000 feet. I'm half expecting the high passes to be impassable, but that's only my guess.

[BigPoppa]

Perhaps we should just reroute for some random fire roads through the dakotas, nebraska, and kansas then finally back into NM.

Yeah, at this point I'm pretty sure the route is at least skimming a few of the outer circles of Dante's Inferno....

Not that I'm complaining, 'epic suffering' is my favorite sport.

[rfutah]

Pic #1 is at map 2B mile 126.0, looking north up Union Pass, my subaru was getting rutty after this.
pic #2 is at map 2B mile 56.3, looking west toward Togwotee Pass (this should be similar to Union, without all the plowing).
pic #3 is at map 2B mile 65.4 looking north up FR 515.  Forest service is not allowing "wheeled traffic, to preserve road base"
Sat down with one of the climatologists at the ranger station.  They have no intention of clearing Union till it melts.  Present estimates are 105" of snow with 40" of water (it was snowing today, and likely for the next week).  Although he admits he hasn't heard from many of his weather stations since they were snow swamped around Jan 1.  With what I am seeing in the mountains, and as a civil engineer with a hydrology specialty, seriously looking at postponing to a ITT tour.  I will try to update as I hear other areas.
Robert
I hope I attached these pics correctly, <- blog newbie