2012 AZT 300/750

[dream4est]

Tim is right all 5 starters in 2010 for the full meal deal destroyed the brake pads they started with in the snow. I had no spares. Now I carry back up pads. The plastic pad was needed to take up space as my Elixirs faded too much for metal on metal contact to work.

Carry pad spacers too. For the ditch haul/bike disassemble. My front brake faded from a lever pull or something.

[AZTtripper]

That level of snow was a real fluke but you never know.

Hadn't thought of the pad spacers for the hike. I was running mech front and rim in the back when I carried thru in 06. That would be a PITA to get across and not be able to put the wheels on until you spent time opening up the pads.

[Foster]

Wow, never thought you could burn through pads that fast.  Mine have been on my bike for more than a year and still have life left in them.  I guess if you need to carry an extra pair they aren't heavy so at least there is no weight issue.

[BigPoppa]

It's mostly a condition/rider/weather/terrain dependent issue.

For example, I raced the whole divide this year on one pair of pads (which I need to replace come to think of it). But, I descend pretty well and use the breaks sparingly, and it was a pretty dry year out there. Other racers I have talked with went through several pairs of pads on the divide due to mud, water, and a brake heavy riding technique.

Bottom line, better safe than sorry... especially given how light they are.

Same goes with a few other magical parts in my kit; shifter cable, spare cage bolts, and derailleur hanger.

[Foster]

Yes a derailleur hanger especially!

[bartspedden]

I ran through  my front pads on the CTR this year and would of replaced them if I had looked.  However, I didn't look until a few days after finishing while cleaning the bike.  I was almost, metal to metal. However, I wasn't experiencing anything drastic that would of made me look at the pads. Maybe I should be checking my pads every day or two while racing? I've worn through lots of sets of pads before this in the mud and snow. I guess the mud/snow carries particles and once it's on your rotors it chews away brake pad material faster.  For me, the the weight to risk ratio makes carrying a spare set of front/rear pads acceptable for multi-day stuff, but won't bring it for big single day efforts if I thought it was going to be mostly dry.

[AZTtripper]

I have carried a spare pair for long runs with a lot of DH. Depending on the make, I was running some cheeper ones that liked to glaze and squeal. The fix was easy enough at home just a sheet of emery paper and a quick sand job. In the field I just swapped them out quick. Other wise the squealing would drive me nuts.

[bartspedden]

As a result of my experiences on the CTR I'm going to switch to 178mm front rotor in hopes of a bigger braking surface using less pad material. I asked a bunch of questions on another thread http://www.bikepacking.net/forum/index.php/topic,2518.0.html and got some good feedback/insight.  Wonder if your glazing was a result of the ideas shared on that thread?

Also, I keep wanting to bring a spare tire.  At this point in time I'll probably start off with new UST 2.2'' Specialized Captains. I haven't seen anyone's list a spare tire in their kit, but I read about a lot of flats... and the DNF rate is pretty high... I certainly don't want to shlep unneeded gear around but I really do want to finish!

[dream4est]

If it rains/snows in Southern AZ the fine dirt will destroy the brake pads while the wheel just rotates. That fine dirt also took out a tubeless tire and made the other slow leak in just 18 miles or so. Basically my bike was a mess and I had not even left the 300 start. 18 miles of dirt roads that were basically flat killed my bike. But for the rest of the 750 it was dry and pad/tire wear was normal again.

I learned a valuable lesson. If conditions were the same down there again I would walk and carry or wait a day. It was that bad.

edit- Bart I ran 2.0 captain control and it failed twice tubeless. Once in the first 18 miles. Go Geax TNT or Spec. Armadillo. The captain control seems to work well here in Colorado but I flatted it on Warren Gulch recently, which is rocky like Arizona. The Captain 2.0 or 2.2 Armadillo would work well in 'Zona.

Bart- the Captain control tire would work, but I had issues with them in AZ just like here in Idaho Springs. They are weird tires. Sometimes they act like they will last forever. Then I slice a sidewall or just lose air a day after a ride (tubeless).  In the 2010 AZT that tire worked after an early tube was inserted until Apache Junction, where I reset the tubeless. In Payson I ran over a 2" deck screw and it held tubeless with Slime Pro but I replaced the tire with a Geax Sagauro TNT and it held for the rest of the year, CTR included.

[AZTtripper]

Carrying a whole extra tire wow that's going to the extreme. Question becomes what will cause you to DNF the catastrophic tire failure or getting beat down carrying too many what if items.

Thou you make a good point a lot of the DNF's have likely been tire/tube/sealant issues. Thou I would bet just as many have more to do with lack of physical training, I know it's killed me a time or two, or lack of HAB training. I wouldn't recommend new shoes but I wouldn't start with anything worn out either. There will be walking followed by more walking, the cool thing is that almost every HAB is followed by a great DH run. As long as you have the DH skills so you don't end up walking in the DH, been there done that got better had more fun.

I wouldn't carry an extra tire way overkill. But I do carry some pretty heavy duty boots, tire boots that is. I had some old tire liners laying around, a shop guy gave me the idea to cut pieces up to use as boots. Carried them for several years never used one for anything more then a standard split, just slip it in between the tube and the tire, better then the dollar bill trick. Thou just this summer on a day ride up on Mt. Lemmon my buddy slid off line and onto a super sharp rock, like a hatchet head, and sliced a tire from above a knob nearly to the bead. A simple stuff it in job wasn't going to cut it. He just happens to still run liners, old school I know. We cut a piece off and then used 2 tubes of patch glue, even set the glue on fire (a rafters trick for gluing) and slapped it together hot. Then some how the guy with the pump got all carried away and put 60 psi in it. Held fine. We let it back down to 40 and rode on out.

Over the years I haven't had much luck with patching tubes with sealant. Seems like they don't stick well or by the time you would start patching one your looking at 10 + holes. However I have always carried a patch kit along with my liner boots. After the big slice I think I would add a second tube of glue. That should fix most all of the potential tire failure issues.

[bartspedden]

Thanks dream4est for the insight into the dust. I was wondering about the dust because on occasion we'll get a layer of dust on top of the snow in the spring and folks tell me it's from a dust storm in Arizona. It's never fun waiting out a storm, but patience pays off sometimes! Thanks for the captain intel too! Funny how gear that works in one environment simply fails in another. The 2.2 captain was "confidence inspiring" for me this summer.  I could point them over anything and they seemed to hold. Nice rolling resistance over everything except trail that was moist enough for the knobbies to just barely dig in, at which point I did notice drag. Probably not a good gravel growler set of rubbers, but for colorado single track, it's once of my fav's.  I'm a bit sad to find that they won't work for the AZT 300.  Oh well, I've been interested in Geax for the last year, this will give me an excuse to try them.

AZTtripper, I know a whole friggin' tire!!! These are the kind of fears that run through my head in the absence of experience. I road a commuter bike in tempe for a handful of months while working on a contract at wells fargo and flatted MANY times until I learned about the  super thick tubes DH style tubes for commuters. And that wasn't even in the desert, just hitting some goat heads, cactus, other sharp prickly desert fauna around the suburbs!

As for training, I'll be racing the grand traverse at the end of March so much of my focus will be on skiing from now until then. I did pick up an indoor trainer so that I can add more biking into the mix.  Riding single track is a season by season thing here.  Last year I was riding my local trails until the end of Feb.! I hear you on the HAB training though.  I added more core training and upper body strength training for this year's CTR and it paid off big time.  I've got 3 years of DH racing (CAT 2 now) under my belt and LOVE it! I actually have more fun with DH then XC but somehow spend way more time on the xc bike  .  I didn't race DH this summer to focus on the CTR instead.  Next summer I plan on heading back to the DH arena for sure!  Time to get on the big sled and pump those trails for everything they are worth!

But back to the tires/tubes questions...  I carried 3 park tire boots over the summer, but never used them. Since I've never used tire liners either, are the tire liners similar in dimensions to the park boots? In other words, are the park boots just some fancy commercial product that barely works and what I should really bring along is the tire liner so that I can cut them to size?

I've never used slime tubes either, just regular tubes, ghetto tubeless, and UST tubeless. At this point, I kind of hate tubes because I inevitably end up treating my xc bike a dh bike and get pinch flats.  I had a good experience with ghetto, but UST is just easier for me, so I've been on UST for the last 2 years and plan on starting with this setup for the AZT.  Slime tubes seem like a no brainer for my spare tubes for the AZT instead of maxxis welter-weights that I used for the CTR. I really like the idea of a second tube of glue too.  Never heard of the "light it on fire" trick, but I do know that glue likes heat.

One other question in reference to the dust. I was planning on using Mavic wheels which get a bad rap for needing more maintenance then other hubs (though mine show nothing different then my DT Swiss or Sun Ringle's).  I wonder if you desert riders run tighter sealing hubs/free-hubs (Chris King or I-Nine or Hope)?

Thanks for all the info guys!

[Pawel]

I think about riding AZT this year especially that I am in California now so it is much closer from here than from Poland.

I wonder how difficult AZT is in comparison to CTR in terms of technical sections? It seems that AZT is even more harsh. What do you think?

[dream4est]

I think about riding AZT this year especially that I am in California now so it is much closer from here than from Poland.

I wonder how difficult AZT is in comparison to CTR in terms of technical sections? It seems that AZT is even more harsh. What do you think?

The rocks just seem sharper and more abundant in AZ. No harder to ride a section IMO than CT, but AZT beats the bike up more.

I also think I had mad chain wear in 2010 over the 730ish miles. I had a shop check the chain after and decided to run the same chain in the 2010 CTR (did not seem stretched). Toastage to the cassette, pulleys, mid and granny. I may get a new chain in Flag this time around.

[Foster]

I haven't ridden the CTR, but I have ridden some sections of it.  My experience is that the AZT is much more harsh and unforgiving on your bike than the trails on the CTR from what I did ride.  The weather for the AZT last year was a big factor for me.  Temps were close to 100 degrees during the day with little shade.  Technical wise though I am not sure that I could say, but there is definitely no shortness of technical riding on the AZT.  One thing I will say that I noticed for the first 80 miles or so is that there is a lot of hike a bike, just to steep to ride.  Lots of up and down out of washes for what seemed to me like forever.  Some of it has amazing sections of single track I must say.  

Why not come out and see for yourself, you're really close!

[AZTtripper]

Bart yes I cut the liners into the same size as a park boot. I have used the park boots as well and for a minor slice they are fine. But if you want to have a way to fix almost anything the heavier rubber of the tire liner does the trick. Seems like you can buy a full pair of liners for about 10 bucks but I wouldn't carry the whole thing just 3-4 park size sections. You'll likely not even need them especially if you start with a fairly new UST as they are slightly thicker tires.

On the commuting note goat head thorns come from a weed that grows thick in town and sometimes out in the fields up north. I wouldn't even think of riding around town with out slime or some such sealant.

I am pretty sure Max ran a Mavic wheel set last year on the 750 freshly serviced but by no means new.

As for the tech and rocks goes Mark and Foster pretty much covered it, all I would add is that it's not all that bad. There are some sections that are as clean as anything but then others well not so much.

[dream4est]

Upon further review of specialized.com I would say that Bart's tire choice (The Captain UST GRID) looks good, just like the Armadillo Captain and Geax TNT Saguaro.

The weight of the new UST Captain is beefy, 100g+ over the Armadillo Captain and 150g + over the control model. Nice.

[Pawel]

Thank you guys for explanation about AZT vs CTR! So good tires are a must.

Foster, I am limited by work and funds so I'll rather plan one crazy trip per year. Also I think that my current bike (singlespeed 29er hardtail) is not suitable for such terrain.

[LyndaW]

I burn through brake pads faster when I am bikepacking. The extra weight of being loaded makes a difference.

[bartspedden]

The weight of the new UST Captain is beefy, 100g+ over the Armadillo Captain and 150g + over the control model. Nice.

Yeah, the weight penalty is stiff for these tires.  830g for the 26x2.2. I gotta laugh when I think about something like the MaxxLite 285 at 285g. Clearly they are two totally different tires, but just think about it this way.  2 UST Captains come in at 1660g versus 570g for the MaxxLites. That's almost a 1090g difference (2.4lbs)!  A more realistic comparison might be the MaxxLite UST at 550g, which would still save over 1lbs.

I'm going to dig into tires and do a more analytical comparison.  Should be fun.

[krefs]

Throw on a pair of Panaracer Rampages (a reasonable 730 g/tire) and you'll be good to go. They work great tubeless, get mad traction with a loaded bike, will only be annoyingly slow climbing up Mt Lemmon, and are the ONLY tire that I've never sliced. I've never run them on the AZT, but I may well this time around if I decide to show up again, especially if the trails are dry and loose.