2012 AZT 300/750

[Sean Allan]

Scott,
Are the tracks for the 300 set? Can I start to split them up or might there be changes involved?
Thanks for all your work!

[AZTtripper]

Scott,
Are the tracks for the 300 set? Can I start to split them up or might there be changes involved?
Thanks for all your work!

Sean

I think there is one little piece of trail that he missed.

So he'll likely have to come out with a vers. 2.

I know Scott's a busy guy but its a small change hopefully he can get it pretty soon.

As far as planning goes its not that much of a change just a mile or so of single track instead of dirt road out at Freeman.

Tim

[Sean Allan]

Thanks Tim, I'll wait. I was just looking to get it done sooner than later. I'm gonna use my 60csx so it's a bit more work than most units.

[ScottM]

Thanks Tim, I'll wait. I was just looking to get it done sooner than later. I'm gonna use my 60csx so it's a bit more work than most units.

Yep, thanks for noting the missing piece, Tim.  I went ahead and added it to both 300 and full tracks, now rev2.

No more changes planned to the 300 route.

[AZTtripper]

So the 300 is set and pretty much going the stay the same for a while I think.

The 750 can still see some additions the first one as mentioned on the south side of the Superstitions.

Its a tough call to get the most single track he has to take away a resupply and basically go north east a fair ways just to make you go back west on trails. Its basically similar to Redington and people already want to know why the course goes so far east just to get to a spot you could be at in an hour instead of 5. The thing at Redington is that we know the trail is good fun and it is the official AZT.

As more stuff gets added to the official bike route how much of it will 750 plus riders be willing to put up with?

Conceivably the route could be 800 miles and adding every piece of trail along the way. Like going up trails instead of the Catalina Hwy could make it a long hard run. Not that it's easy now. 

I am just curious to see if riders will vote for more trail even if its out of the way. In the end its a dictatorship and you'll all have to do what Scott decides on.

[krefs]

Tim, it's definitely an interesting debate with respect to more singletrack/AZT versus having a more doable/enjoyable route. The resupply options are a bit sparse at places already, and adding more trail would make it take longer to cross those sections and potentially eliminate a couple resupply options. It wouldn't make it anywhere near impossible, but it would clearly add to the challenge. Given the small number of riders who have completed the 750+ in one variant or another, it seems there's plenty of challenge as it is now!

[AZTtripper]

Kurt good to hear your perspective on this.

I think Scott is inclined to keep it as is for the most part.

Its not that you wouldn't be able to get to the resupply points but it would add even more miles getting to them.

The official route will eventually include as much as possible I should think. How much of it has to be included in the race is another matter.

Seems like it will make more sense to ride more trail as part of a tour but even those who have done that lately have done less rather then more.

At some point I can see more guys doing the segments for a full trip. Breaking it down into 3 stages would make a big difference.

With the AZT 300 ending at Picket Post this next section starting on the east side of Phx and doing riding to Pine or even Flag for a middle state 250-300. Then a final stage of Flag to the State line timed so that you for sure get to ride up north. Of course people can already do the North end with the Kiabab route.

An AZ triple crown of south central and norther AZT sections in April, May, and June. Skipping the hike thru the big ditch.

[ScottM]

Dictatorship!  Ha!  I like the sound of that.  I'm sure there have been plenty of plots to overthrow the dictatorship -- from racers while out on Oracle Ridge or other favorite sections.

It's a tough call on adding more singletrack.  You can get pretty nutty about it in some cases.  My feeling at the moment is that the route is good until we get confirmation that some of the other sections have been improved (Boulder Creek, Mazatals).  Bugs/Green... whoo-eee, maybe in a few years when everyone starts blazing through the current courses and finds them boring...

Thanks for your input as always, Tim (and Kurt), and anyone else.

A multi-month 'stage' race is a very intriguing idea, Tim.  Only downside is the added logistics, but getting to ride the whole trail in one year would be pretty cool, and no need to detour for snow.  I'd say for that we could consider adding more singletrack... may as well get as close to full AZT status as possible.  Hmmm.

[windowace]

Greetings all!  As much as I would like to meet many (all) of you for the 'official' race, my schedule dictates something different.  I plan on celebrating my birthday by riding the AZT 300 route on and around March 26-29th.  This will be a challenge for me but I believe I can complete barring catastrophic mechanical failure. Even if that should occur what is the downside?  I guess I am putting this out there in case anyone else may be considering the route around this time.  If my plans come to fruition, I will try and provide as much beta about trail conditions as I can.  Scott, thank you for taking time with me while you were manning the booth at 24 hrs ITOP.  Your suggestions for riding the Oracle to Superstition segment inspired me to attempt the whole (300mile) enchilada. If anyone is interested in that window of riding I have excellent support for pickups and drop offs if interested.  Cheers to you all!

[Pawel]

Hi All!
I'm in for 300 'only'
It will be my first ride in such a dry conditions. And it is my biggest concern. Any updates on water sources? I've some waypoints from last year but it seems that there are a little bit more water sources (i.e. at camps). It would be great if someone knowledgeable create water source waypoints for AZTR route.
See you all on the start line!

[AZTtripper]

Here ya go.

The water spigots have a second distance from the last spigot or store. All other sources require filter or purification.

# 1.    Bear Creek (spring fed) crosses under road.         6.5 miles N of the Border
# 2.   Parker Creek (dam fed)               2.5 miles N of Parker TH Starting line
# 3.   Cott Tank (solar pwd) spigot (no bikes inside fence)   4.5 miles N of Canelo Pass 19.5 miles from the start
# 4.   Patagonia (store, resterants, hotel, PO)                  31 miles from the start
# 5.   Sonoita (store, resterants, hotel)                              
# 6.   Gardner Creek (rain/snow fed)            10.7 miles N of Sonita
# 7.   Kentucky Camp (spigot)               6 miles N of Garner Creek 16. 5 from Sonoita
# 8.   Oak Tree Canyon stock tank (well fed)         8 miles N of K Camp
# 9.   The Lake (rain fed)               12.6 miles N of Oak Tree off course north on 2 track after forest gate.   
#10.   Cienga Creek under Three Bridges (all year)         2 miles north of I-10
#11.   La Posta Quemada Ranch (sink off course)         2.6 miles from 3 Bridges .7 off
#12.   La Sevilla Campground (spigot on rock)         2.3 miles from LPQ Jct. 41.6 from K Camp
#13.   Tucson (store, resterants, hotel, PO)
#14.   Chiva Tank (rain)                  2.4 miles below Redington road
#14.2 Tanque Verde Creek and water tanks jump fence            6.2 miles off Redington road
#15.   The Lake (rain usually has water)            4 miles after crossing Redington road
#16.   West Spring (spring fed) not great            3.5 miles past The Lake
#17.   Molino water hole (rain snow melt)              up steam from trail crossing east of Highway
#18.   Palisades TH (spigot mid April to mid Nov.)         12 miles up the Highway 42 miles from Broadway in Tucson
#19.   Summerhaven (visitor’s center, store, restaurant, rooms)   off course
#20.   Water Buffalo Oracle State Park            when the park reopens
#21.    Oracle (stores, resterants, motel)            off course
#22   Beehive Well (big metal tank not good)         19.5 miles north of Tiger mine rd.
#23.   Freeman Road (water cache)               just north of Freeman Road
#24.   Ripsey Wash spring (.2 miles south of trail stay on road)   18.7 miles north of Freeman Road
#25.   Pinal Co Maintenance Yard; 0.1 m north of Kelvin bdg.      outside facet available M-Th, 6:30am-3:30pm
#26.   Wilson Trailer Court; 0.5m N Kelvin bdg.            outside facet phone also available if needed
#27.   They are now saying you can filter the Gila River    57.5 miles from Oracle   
#28.   Trough Spring         .25 miles off course go north on Telegraph canyon road 135 feet turn left on 2 track 7.5 miles from the finish line.

[Sean Allan]

Very cool Tim, thank you so much for your work on the water locations. Maybe I wont die out there after all

[Pawel]

Thank you very much Tim! This is very helpful.

[tanman1337]

Thanks Tim! Is this the official water table? I definitely feel like a "newbie" saying this, but when you say a spigot from the rocks do you mean there is literally a rock with a water spigot sticking out of it? Sorry for the dumb questions.

-Tanner

[AZTtripper]

Yep that's the one at La Sevilla camp ground. There are two there actually there is one built into the Ramada and then there is one right next to the road literally sticking out of a rock.

And yes this water table is as official as the race, so not at all, your on your own and I am just throwing out a list of places that I have seen water in the past.

On that note the spigot as Cott tank has been working for the last 3 years and there has always been water in the creek there in the past.

I was just out at Tanque Verde last week and there was water in the creek as well as 3 tanks with water, only one that I would pump from tho.

My personal used to be my secret water hole at Molino may have water right at the trail or you may need to take the social trail up the drainage until it drops back into the creek and go up stream from there. I get up that way once a month or so, so I'll try to check it out again just before race time.

I've got the 750 one worked out to Pine.

#29.   From Picket Post to Hewett Station is 1.7 from here east its 1 mile to Boyce Thompson Arboretum or 4.5 to Superior or 22 miles to Stores at Apache Jct.
#30.  Spigot at Lost Dutchman State Park 7.8 from Apache Jct.
#31.  Tortilla Flat spigot at Campgound on left store on right 11 miles from LDSP.
#32.  Burn Corral Camp Ground spigot 19.5 from TF.
#33.  Cholla Bay Camp Ground spigot showers 10 miles from BCCG.
#34.  Pumpkin Center stores restaurant 13 miles from Cholla Bay.
#35.  Jakes Corner store bar and grill 10,5 from PC.
#36.  Rye restaurant 8.5 from JC.
#37.  Payson 11.8 from Rye.
#39.  Pine is 22 miles from Payson look for 2 track west of highway leads to town saves riding on highway.
#40. 

[Newfydog]

Hey, I'm heading down next week to ride out of Patagonia and do most of the 300 at an old man/old lady pace.  It sounds like we should replace our thin, light Racing Ralphs and the like with something like a Rampage. 

Is there a good shop in Tucson or somewhere I can visit on the way down to pick up the required combat gear?

[tanman1337]

Talking about water... What kind of water purification do you use Tim? What do you think is the best for this race weight wise?

[Walkurtalk]

Tim, Thank you for the 750 water source addition!

[AZTtripper]

Racers don't bother with anything they just haul ass between spigots.

For the rest of us there still aren't that many places you'll need to filter for.

I have a MSR hyperflow and really like the compact size it's not that much lighter then the old Pure Hiker I used for years but it has a back flush feature and a better pre-filter.

Of course some kind of tabs or maybe one of the water bottles with a filter in the lid are a lighter option.

[Sean Allan]

Racers don't bother with anything they just haul ass between spigots.

For the rest of us there still aren't that many places you'll need to filter for.

I have a MSR hyperflow and really like the compact size it's not that much lighter then the old Pure Hiker I used for years but it has a back flush feature and a better pre-filter.

Of course some kind of tabs or maybe one of the water bottles with a filter in the lid are a lighter option.

If the racers aren't filtering much, it looks like the Palisades spigot would need to be functioning, any idea if that is the case? I read somewhere that Oracle State Park was open or reopening, will it be open come race day?

 Also, is there any way for me to figure the table out as a distance from the start? As an out of towner I'm not going to know what a lot of those crossings and such will be. No big deal if not, just wondering if it's something I myself could do(don't expect you to do it).

Thanks again for all your help, adventures like this would be much more difficult without the knowledge and hard work of many.