2014 CTR Discussion

[Shirey]

Stefan's Website is back up! Rejoice! Rejoice!

http://www.climbingdreams.net/ctr/

[Yogi the Barry]

Re: Weight on the bike or back?
I think either extreme is... extreme. Having all the weight on the bike does [IMHO] make the bike harder to push uphill. And if you're riding a hardtail [with fork], having a very heavy load on the bike just pounds the rear wheel. Carrying everything in a huge backpack is literally a pain in the ass and back. My load is split about 50-60% on the bike and 40-50% on the back. My backpack basically just carried my personal kit, items that were too fragile to rattle on a bike, most of my water, and overflow food for those long and lonely sections.

Re: Bike Bags
Yes, most FS bike frames make bike bag fitting a challenge. I had a relatively small custom bag made for my Ibis Mojo, by Porcelain Rocket [in 2012], which went under the shock and above the BB. This was a great place to fit heavy/dense items like tools. For any frame, it's ideal to put heavy items low and centrally located [fore/aft]. 'Gerry can' and 'gas tank' bags can add volume to just about any type frame.
For [late 2013] 2014, I had a frame bag made for my Ti 29er HT [poor man's Ti - Motobecane]. Dave Wilson, Nuclear Sunrise Stitchworks, did a great job making a 2-compartment custom bag to fit my XL sized frame.
http://nukesunrise.com/
Ti and steel frames are much more worry free to mount bags on. Aluminum, and especially carbon, frames can be damaged quite rapidly if you don't tape/pad wear points caused by the the bag and mounting strap/Velcro rubbing the frame.

[Yogi the Barry]

And when he gets caught up [what's that?] he will update it for 2014...

Stefan's Website is back up! Rejoice! Rejoice!

http://www.climbingdreams.net/ctr/

[Woodland]

Making my 3rd (1st finish) attempt this year. It IS the year. See ya out there.

Same here Hubach! 3rd time's the charm, as they say. 

[joeydurango]

2011 CTR - I used my trusty steel hardtail 29er.

2013 CTR - I used my Devinci Atlas full-sus 29er.

As of 2014 I'm selling my Atlas and keeping the hardtail.  The Atlas is an awesome bike, but I just like the hardtail better.  The Devinci really came into its own on big, rough descents - I had some good times out there, loaded and all.  I'll second what Josiah said, that I expected the softer ride to make me more comfy, but the inverse was true, as I had to sit down more.  As a 90%-time SS rider, I'm used to standing up, and sitting so much more on the full-sus didn't do me any favors. 

For bikepacking specifically, I'm heading back to putting more weight on the bike, and trying to do away with the pack altogether.  This last CTR's most difficult part for me was the constant stress on shoulders, neck, and back from a not-that-heavy Osprey pack... no frame bag in the Devinci just meant I had to put that much more on my back.  Eight-hour rides with a full pack are fine, but 18-20+ hours day after day?  No thanks.

Of course this is one guy's opinion - your mileage may vary!  If you carry a lot of stuff, it might be best to divvy up the weight a bit.

[ezr4d]

Awesome info, thanks Joey.
I am leaning towards the HT myself since it'll pack stuff easier and is a simpler, more durable bike. I think some big tires and a flexy seatpost might be good additions also.

[sherpaxc]

I also used a hardtail on my last through ride.  I'm with Joey.  The full frame bag, the ability to stand, and less weight on my back was huge.  My skinny and boney butt don't like sitting for too long.  I'll be on the trail again this year and will be using my trusty steel El Mariachi.  Biggest change for me is using flat pedals this year.  I've been practicing with them and am totally converted from clipless to flats.  Loving it.

[joeydurango]

Oh yeah - big tires are where it's at!  My custom Black Cat - about 18 months out right now - will have some BIG tire clearance.  Pair that with curvy seat stays, a 120mm fork, and a 27.2 post, and I won't be missing full-sus... ripper!

[Yogi the Barry]

Tried toeclips and straps lately? Clips and straps are best of both clipless and platforms. About the same foot positioning of a clipless pedal and also having the ability to remove the foot from the pedal in an instant. BTW, I'm not talking about being locked onto the pedal with tight straps, from the days of leather hair nets and wool shorts. I'm talking about straps loose enough for the foot to easily be moved on and off the pedal. No cleats to come loose and/or jam with mud. HAB is nicer in your bike shoes because there's no cleat on the shoe. No, you can't pull up with mega force during the upstroke, but you can pull up enough to totally unweigh your leg and the ball of the foot will remain properly positioned over the pedal axle. Besides, other than during a sprint attempt to win a stage, when and how long can you lift the leg more than it's weight? Not as easy as a plat to just flop the foot onto the pedal, but much easier than clipping into a clipless pedal. Yes, toeclips, straps and lightweight pedals that accept toeclips are still out there on the market and not just at Wally World. Hardest part of using this setup is having to constantly defend your choice of neither using a clipless pedal nor a trendy plat. Using something different makes people feel uncomfortable. If I get a verbal attack from someone I don't know, I tell them that the reason I use clips and straps is to handicap my riding pace to be able to ride slow with someone like them. That usually shuts them up... 
PS - I've tried a platform pedal and BMX strap setup, but it wasn't quite as light and easy to use as a pedal with clips and straps.

... using flat pedals this year...

[Done]

Tried toeclips and straps lately?

I started with toeclips and straps about 25 years ago. They worked pretty well, both in the mountains and on the road. But once I tried my first clipless pedals (Onza!), I was hooked.

My wife still uses Power Grips for many of the same reasons that clips are nice. But with a little extra twist of the foot, they tighten up for extra control. If you like clips, check out some Power Grips!

Nice to have so many options.

[sherpaxc]

Tried toeclips and straps lately? Clips and straps are best of both clipless and platforms.
[/qotfe]
I don't want to derail this thread with a clipless/platform debate.  I'll just comment and say, no, clips and straps are not at all the best of both worlds.  We can of course move this conversation here...http://www.bikepacking.net/forum/index.php/topic,1856.0.html

[Yogi the Barry]

Ouch... Glad somebody is policing this thread to keep it narrow, focused and on topic...

I'll just comment and say, no, clips and straps are not at all the best of both worlds.  We can of course move this conversation...

[joeydurango]

I have known various people with various pedal, suspension (or lack thereof), tire, fit, packing, or whatever systems who have kicked my ass.  It's ain't the gear you're on... it's how you use it.  I like my clipless, but I also like platforms sometimes.  And I used to ride toe clips, back in the day (I'm finally old enough to say that - YES!).  Whatever you like is cool!

[JosiahM]

back to the fs/ht and pack/no pack discussion.
one topic that has not been discussed is temperature management.
in 2012, I did the ride with a pack and would find myself getting too hot and sweating then freezing when I got in the shade or downhills because of the moisture that was on me caused from sweating on the pack.
in 2013, I was pack-less and my body was able to much better temperature control itself and I didn't find myself going through those temperature swings near as much because the sweat would evaporate as I was sweating.  this saved a lot of energy and time not having to try to warm myself up.  plus the process of putting a jacket on and taking itself off was much easier so I was more inclined to stop real quick and do that when needed since it wasn't a big undertaking not having to take a pack off my back to do it.
I often ride to work in the winter in tulsa and am faced with the same issues.  when it is 20 degrees out and I'm wearing a pack, my back sweats and the rest of my freezes because of it and when I don't wear a pack, I am fairly comfortable the whole ride(after the first couple miles of warm up that is).

just food for thought.  every body behaves differently so you would have to try different things for yourself.

[joeydurango]

^+1.  Same experiences here.

[Yogi the Barry]

Re: Sweaty back
Nothing is as comfortable as riding packless, but Osprey's wire frame suspended mesh backpanel really promote air circulation and helps keep the back dry. I have both a Manta 20 and 30 which have this feature. Hipbelt pockets and built-in rain cover are also nice on the Manta.
Re: Packless
Now that I have even more room on the bike, triangle bag on a hardtail vs., I still don't how I would fit all the food on the bike, riding packless, after hitting the supermarket in BV and Silverton. And I'm not going to make the mistake by not buying enough food, like I did in '12, for those remote stretches.

back to the fs/ht and pack/no pack discussion.
one topic that has not been discussed is temperature management...

[Done]

I still don't how I would fit all the food on the bike, riding packless, after hitting the supermarket in BV and Silverton.

Yeah, I've got to agree with that. Even though I pack a pretty small kit, I don't know how I'd fit water, food, gear, etc. on my bike.

Although people do it, so maybe I need to re-think what I carry! Maybe if I don't take sleeping gear? Maybe in a dry year, but otherwise probably not in the cards for a slow guy like me.

[Yogi the Barry]

This year I'll probably bike out of BV and Silverton with 1-1/2 to 2 more pounds of food. In '12, I had my ass saved at Apple's and a 'gift' from another biker along the way who was going to pitch a surplus freeze dried entree. Riding thru the two long isolated sections, I was at least 4000-5000 cal short for each one.

Yeah, I've got to agree with that. Even though I pack a pretty small kit, I don't know how I'd fit water, food, gear, etc. on my bike.
Although people do it, so maybe I need to re-think what I carry! Maybe if I don't take sleeping gear? Maybe in a dry year, but otherwise probably not in the cards for a slow guy like me.

[mtnbound]

Using a backpack, in addition to bike bags, is a personal choice and depends on each rider's comfort and travel style.  I am used to a backpack (love the Osprey Talon 22) and ride with one on every ride so I don't have a problem with wearing one as long as it is not too loaded (usually 10-15lbs or less).  I put the heavy gear in bikebags (like clothes, tent, tools, air mattress, sleeping bag, etc.) and try to only put stuff I will need the most access to while riding in the pack - like rain gear, sun screen, lip balm and other personal stuff (the Talon has small pockets on the waist straps that are very convenient for this type of thing).  I also like having the camelback 3L on my back since it is easier for me to drink (I have never been able to grab a bottle, drink and put it back on the bike while riding singletrack - I am not coordinated enough!).  HAB sucks either way, but I prefer to balance the weight a bit between me and the bike.  I understand the back sweat issue, though I don't have that problem too often (sweating while raining is another issue).    

Like it has been mentioned above, I think one of the main reasons for a backpack on the CTR is having that extra room for those long hauls without resupply.  While some can fit all of their gear, food and water on their bike and move fast enough that they don't need much spare room for the extra food between those resupply droughts, I am not one of them.  I am also slow enough and have that extra caution in the back of my mind that I try to pack a bit extra food (enough for 1/2 to 1 day) just in case something happens.  Anyway, whether to use a back pack depends on each rider's comfort, use, travel style, etc.

[Mini Bear]

ven more room on the bike, triangle bag on a hardtail vs., I still don't how I would fit all the food on the bike, riding packless, after hitting the supermarket in BV and Silverton. And I'm not going to make the mistake by not buying enough food, like I did in '12, for those remote stretches.

Yeah, I've got to agree with that. Even though I pack a pretty small kit, I don't know how I'd fit water, food, gear, etc. on my bike.
Although people do it, so maybe I need to re-think what I carry! Maybe if I don't take sleeping gear? Maybe in a dry year, but otherwise probably not in the cards for a slow guy like me.

Just from my inaugural this past year, with some key choices on equipment, it is very possible to pack enough food for the long stretches and not have a backpack. For some context, I'm in that 7-8 day finish crowd, no where near the front, and full nights sleep every night. Taking a pack really wasn't an option as I never ride with a pack anyway, and my neck and shoulders can be troublesome. I had a framebag on a pretty small hardtail frame (I'm only 5'8"), the smallest size of Carousel Designs seatbag and bar bag, two handlebar feedbags, and a small Oveja 'snack pack' for the toptube. I took a full sleeping kit (bivy, 3/4 inflatable pad, 32 degree bag), full rain gear, but no cookset. I know the old debate about hot meals/coffee/etc. as a moral boost, but I gotta say, having air running over me through some of the hot sections was a hell of a lot better moral boost than a hot coffee in the morning, personal opinion anyway. I digress.

I packed every bag to the absolute limit in BV (think one or two turns of the ends of each bag before clipping) and jammed the hell out of my jersey pockets, but I ended up rolling into Silverton with at least another full day of food; actually ended up throwing away 3000 cals of stuff I wasn't really feeling. I did have a little snack at Princeton Hot Springs and Apple's camp, but they were not necessary at all. All that said, the first half day or so, the bike was an absolute pig. But, at least that pig was not sitting on my back.

The most critical part of being able to do this, beyond hard kit choices, was really paying attention to calories per ounce of every last thing. If something didn't hit the mark of roughly 120-130 calories per ounce, it didn't get to come for the ride. And smash the living daylight out of anything that is remotely bulky; potato chips are still just as tasty all crushed up.

Anyway, my two cents in this timeless debate.