2014 CTR Discussion

[Mini Bear]

Morale, not moral. I try to know right and wrong without having to have a hot meal in my belly.

[dream4est]

To add to the debate, my 5 ITT finishes (4 race 1 solo) best time is with 70back/30bike weight distribution. That time is slow though (8d10h) so does it mean anything? Not sure. All finishes were different distances or directions basically. If you include my '07 near finish paced out to a finish, my worst efforts were all weight on bike ('13) and all weight on back ('07).

However, in AZT750 my best time out of three was when I was like 60bike/40back. The 70back/30bike effort was slowest?

So all I have learned is that there is no data supporting one setup for me that trumps all.

[Yogi the Barry]

Why the heck am I thinking about this in January...

Re: Cookset
Weights are to the nearest gram for my alcohol stove cookset. Very nice to whip out during that first morning break [I'm a hot chocolate/tea/Via addict] and for freeze dried meals [pour in two cups of boiling water, seal bag, put bag in pack, bike another 20 minutes, remove and eat].

stove, Evernew Ti = 36
standoff, Ti = 16
windscreen, Al = 27
cup [pot], 600ml Ti = 80
spoon, long Ti = 17
stuff sack/foil lid/padding = 19
Total = 195 g

I could probably save 10-15 grams by using foil for a windscreen, instead of an aluminum flashing cylinder.
FYI, this cookset weighs about as much as a pair of salt encrusted bike shorts. Not included in the weight is a lighter, which I always carry two of [~20g each], stove or not.
Then there's the fuel weight. Stove needs about 1-1/4 to 1-1/2 ounces of alcohol to boil two cups of water, which takes ~five minutes at 8-10,000'.
So, one burn of the stove consumes ~40 g of alcohol. I usually carry an 8 ounce poly bottle, with about 5-6 ounces in it, totaling about 180 g. Hard to beat the weight of an alcohol stove for an individual taking a short trip. Edit addition: The higher energy density of white gas beats out alcohol for large parties and week, or longer, trips.
For CTR, I topped off with fuel [denatured alcohol] at The Trailhead in BV and bought a bottle of Heet in Silverton at the grocery store [use yellow not red Heet]. A more expensive dual use alcohol option is 190-proof Everclear, available at any fine bar along the way. Takes all the weight-weenie pain out of carrying fuel...

[Joliver]

In 2011, I rode a full suspension 29er.  I didn't have a frame bag b/c of the limited space, so I put a lot of weight on my back, including all of my water.  My sleeping setup was a bivy sack and a very light down bag.  I ended up suffering madly due to pain in my shoulders and neck, which resulted in numb fingers for about a year.  I also experienced some numbness on my taint b/c of the extra weight on my back.   

In 2013, I rode a ti hardtail 29er with bags from Oveja Negra (seat, frame and feed) and my sleeping setup was only a bivy sack and a down jacket. I did not use a backpack.  My hands never bothered me and I didn't even end up with a saddle sore.  I actually liked the hardtail much more b/c I was able to get more weight off of my back, and I liked the ability to stand and climb more efficiently. 

I was faster in 2013 and there are probably many reasons for that, but for me personally one of the biggest ones was the comfort of not having that weight on my back.  I just didn't experience the general body fatigue quite so much as I had in 2011. I would also say that my kit was overall a bit lighter in 2013. 

It is funny, when you are out there riding and it is sunny, you don't think much about it, but when you are at 12k feet and it starts to rain, you begin to consider whether or not you are a moron for not having brought more supplies.  Then, as we spend time in the comfort of our homes during the winter, I think those feelings tend to go away, we forget the fine line that we may have been running, and we decide for the next year that we can cut a little more here and a little more there.  I remember feeling like my setup was pretty light in 2013, and then I looked over at Jesse's and it seemed to me that he was going for just a long day ride.  So, my guess is that with his experience he has kinda fine tuned his setup in the same way.   I would suspect that I will do the same this year.

In the end, I guess it is just whatever makes you feel comfortable on the trail, whether that is from a pure riding standpoint, enjoyment or the feeling of comfort and safety.  I think either bike and either way, with pack or without, might work better for different peopl. 
 

[bncrshr77]

I guess I'm the opposite of most on here.  I don't remember ever going on a ride without a pack and I think I would always feel like something's missing if I did.  This may sound dumb and I'm sure most of you are much better riders that me but there have been countless times I've crashed and landed hard on my back on sharp rocks, logs and everything eles.  My trusty pack has always taken the brunt of those great landings for me! So for me I will always ride with a pack!

[mikepro]

Another opinion from a little bit of my own personal experience: in 2012 I attempted CTR with 100% on the bike and was unprepared (both physically and mentally, to be honest) for the amount of HAB with a fully loaded bike.  Some of them pitches are steep and long.  Yes, I could've cut down on gear weight, and especially managed water weight better/smarter, but I was left with a strong sense that 'next time' I'd try putting all 'fluctuating' weight such as water and food in a small backpack, rocket-style Camelbak even, and keep relatively non-fluctuating weight (sleep kit, rain gear, repair kit, toiletries, etc.) on the bike.  Maybe even come up with a slick/quick way of moving weight from the bike to the back for the HAB, and then to the bike again for the riding.  I'd rather hike with most weight on my back and push/pull/lift/carry an empty/light bike, then push/pull/lift/carry a fully loaded bike with nothing on my back.

Of course, I also think being able to be physically fit enough and pack light enough to ride more and HAB less, and/or HAB with all gear and weight on the bike, is the gold standard.  Which would then make my above opinion about bike-vs-back distribution a moot point.

Right now, a fully loaded bike for me is way too much of a hog to have everything on the bike.

[wbcmaelstrom]

Glad I found this thread as I've been trying to find the dates.

Will be doing CTR on a Pugsley.

[Couloirman]

Anyone have the link to where Jesse and Jefe's gear lists are from last years race? I was going to compare just for some perspective and cant find them anymore.

[aarond]

I did an ITT of CTR in August with everything on my back.  I thought less weight on the bike would make it easier to HAB, and maybe it did, not totally sure.  But, this year I will try not to take a backpack at all.  The biggest drawback for me was that the backpack shifts around on your back when the straps are comfortably tight, and this ends up throwing your weight around and knocking you off your line.  I would ride with only shoulder straps on the uphils,and maybe the sternum strap since the waist belt seemed to interfere a little with breathing, but then you really need to cinch the waist strap for the descents to keep the pack from shifting too much, and it was kind of a hassle clipping and unclipping it all the time and I often forgot.  I will definitely try to get everything on the bike this year like a couple of trhe top guys did last year.  I have done a ton of backpacking and riding with a pack and don't really get sore from the backpack, but I still think everything on the bike is best.  Oh, and another big drawback is that standing up to pedal with the pack on seems much less efficient.

[aschuhmann]

Pretty stoney... A bit late, but it coincides with the full moon.  We could certainly change it if there is an overwhelming consensus here though.

I would LOVE to race this race this summer (toured it in 2012), but as a teacher, I wouldn't be able to if the date was 8/10. When I saw that the timing was going to be in August, I changed plans to race the Tour Divide this summer, but I would still LOVE to be able to do this race too. I vote for sometime in late July, if that's possible. -Andrew

[Flounder]

I'll add this to the discussion. If you plan to race, as in put in a hard effort, realize that in doing so you run the risk of an all or not result. My first CTR race effort was a disaster in 2012. I departed outside the mass start dates on a day with record high temps. I pushed too hard, got blinded by my own ambitions of a 6-day finish, and blew myself to bits by Breckenridge. After 1000+ races spanning 25 years, it remains my most monumental racing F-up ever. Foolish from the first mile, it was enough to have me park my bike for almost six months. I was crushed.

Train as hard as you can. Test yourself regularly to the breaking point well before you embark on the CTR. Once you get rolling ride well within your limits, ride smart and try to keep the experience fun.

Stay tuned for July when I ignore my own advice and blow myself to bits again, this time in Leadville. 

[sherpaxc]

Flounder I had almost the exact same experience on my first Ctr attempt (think it was 08?). I the end I put too much pressure on myself. My tour was a hell of a lot more fun. Wish I would have done that first. Oh well. I learned plenty. Can't wait to get back up there this summer for another round.

[Couloirman]

[Cutting thru all my analytical ramblings - I would prefer the CTR to start August 3rd!]
-Barry[/i][/b]

Quoting this because my schedule has been in flux, and now it looks like I will be starting on August 3rd as well. That would be AWESOME if I could take part in the grand depart. Been training like a madman and hoping to push myself hard this year. If I have to do an ITT that is fine as well though, and if thats the case Ill probably start from Durango, which is my preference anyway so either way I guess Im happy. Either Ill get to ride with the group, or Ill get to ride the direction I prefer.

[JosiahM]

I personally would like for the date to stay with stefan's original date of the 10th.
I've ITT'd the ctr twice and would really like to experience the grand depart for the first time this year but won't be able to do it before the 10th because I'll be suffering in ironman boulder on august 3rd... but that's just my vote

Quoting this because my schedule has been in flux, and now it looks like I will be starting on August 3rd as well. That would be AWESOME if I could take part in the grand depart. Been training like a madman and hoping to push myself hard this year. If I have to do an ITT that is fine as well though, and if thats the case Ill probably start from Durango, which is my preference anyway so either way I guess Im happy. Either Ill get to ride with the group, or Ill get to ride the direction I prefer.

[Yogi the Barry]

At least the CTR wouldn't be starting on August 9th, which is Leadville MTB 100... or running into the Breck 100 on July 12-13...
Re: Which August weekend? - I still like starting the week of the waxing moon, meaning August 3rd.
Re: Direction? - My understanding from Stefan is that the start will be Denver on even years and Dango in odd years. Pick the appropriate year or choose to swim upstream.
Whatever the date, impossible to please all the people all the time...

[Woodland]

Yes, impossible to please everyone. So let's just stick with the communicated date (10th) and either ride with the group or do an ITT. The beauty of the CTR.

Probably the group start could use a little whittling down anyway as it seems to be approaching the FS group size limits.

[railroad switchman]

Im in for August 10th start, I just spent 2 months trying to get my vacation changed from the July 21st week (because I assumed we were starting 2014 race  on the same week as 2013) to the August 10th week. Also to take in to consideration is the huge snowpack this year, a extra 3 weeks of melt will be good for the trail. Thanks for hearing my voiced opinion, looking forward to Denver Start!!!

[schous]

Im in for August 10th start, I just spent 2 months trying to get my vacation changed from the July 21st week (because I assumed we were starting 2014 race  on the same week as 2013) to the August 10th week. Also to take in to consideration is the huge snowpack this year, a extra 3 weeks of melt will be good for the trail. Thanks for hearing my voiced opinion, looking forward to Denver Start!!!

"huge snowpack"  What would you co folks figure to be the earliest start date for an ITT, Denver to Durango?

[dream4est]

I would say July 15th is the earliest in any year to be safe. I went on the 13th in '08. I saw some snow and water. It was a quick melt year (the earliest melt-out in CTR era IMO). But the Snotel data (Slumgullion Pass) says only a recent storm makes 2014 heavier than '08. You can never tell until April anyway in Colorado as late snow determines the melt date.

http://www.wcc.nrcs.usda.gov/nwcc/site?sitenum=762&state=co

Check the Snotel site on May 1st. Compare to May 1st '08. That year total melt-out happened around July 18th on the CTR IMO.

[Bndst]

I'm in for the 8/10 Denver start. I figure I've lurked enough on these pages the past few years, I might as well try my hand at the CTR. And it'll be one hell of a "welcome to Colorado" present to myself as I'll have been a Front Range resident for a whole 2 weeks before the race kicks off.

Looking forward to putting some faces to some names!