2014 CTR Discussion

[Done]

The great folks at the Colorado Trail Foundation have just released a new revision of the The Colorado Trail Map Book!

http://www.shop.coloradotrail.org/Colorado-Trail-Map-Book-MAPBOOK.htm

[sherpaxc]

So it talks about the new Collegiate West trail opening up and they are clear as mud if cyclist can ride it.  Obviously there is a 7 mile stretch of Wilderness, but it would be nice to know if there was a connector around that section. 

Also, the mapbook isn't the same as the data book right? 

[Done]

So it talks about the new Collegiate West trail opening up and they are clear as mud if cyclist can ride it.  Obviously there is a 7 mile stretch of Wilderness, but it would be nice to know if there was a connector around that section.  

Also, the mapbook isn't the same as the data book right?  

From what I understand, Collegiate West isn't rideable, in most part due to the wilderness section. They told me that there's really not a reasonable bypass.

Yep, the Databook and Map Book are different. The Data Book doesn't have full maps, mostly just mileages and simple maps and profiles--which keeps it nice and small. The Map Book is big, but has beautiful maps. I don't expect that many racers will carry the Map Book, but it would be a great resource for planning.

[riverfever]

Oh Toby. I don't come here too often anymore. At the risk of giving you too much power...I'm going to throw something out. While I think that informing others about anything can be noteworthy (I wouldn't want anyone...even you...to actually experience what I did that night), I believe there are classy ways of doing it and...not so classy ways. You could have written a decent piece without assuming to know what I was feeling or going through in those last few miles. But you elected not to. Educating others on something like the dangers of sleep dep could have been done in a much more respectful manner. I'm disappointed. Not necessarily surprised but...disappointed.

[Done]

Oh Toby. I don't come here too often anymore. At the risk of giving you too much power...I'm going to throw something out.

Whether you throw something out or not, I have absolutely no power whatsoever. I'm just another guy on a bike, out to experience the passion and adventure of the CTR. If I wanted power in this life, I certainly think that there would be better places to get it than posting my thoughts about an obscure race on an obscure blog.

(I wouldn't want anyone...even you...to actually experience what I did that night)

Thanks for that. I think.

You could have written a decent piece without assuming to know what I was feeling or going through in those last few miles.

I only know what you're written, and what I heard from those who helped get you safely to the trailhead. Seems that you became delusional, lost your bearings, panicked, abandoned your gear, and found yourself in a pretty damn scary and dangerous place. No, I wasn't there. But I've been close, having pushed myself to the point of hallucinating and having trouble making good decisions. Several years ago, I saw monsters on Cataract--which is pretty batshit crazy. I'm really glad that it didn't get worse, and it taught me a lot about sleep deprivation and risk management.

Educating others on something like the dangers of sleep dep could have been done in a much more respectful manner. I'm disappointed.

I'm sorry that you feel I was being disrespectful. Certainly not my intention. To me honest, I'm not sure what you find so objectionable. Anyone who pushes hard enough could find themselves in a similar situation. I'm glad that you survived, and that people were present to help you get to safety.

Failure, in any form that leaves you capable of a re-try, is part of the game. I failed by crashing into a log pile like a heap of incompetent rags on my second year. You lost your marbles just miles from the finish. Shit happens--and it's nice that both of us are still around to give it another go!

[riverfever]

To me honest, I'm not sure what you find so objectionable.

Again...this doesn't surprise me.

[Done]

Again...this doesn't surprise me.

Well, Chris, I don't know what to say. You seem more interested in attacking me than explaining yourself. I'm sorry that you're disappointed and not surprised. I've offered, via an offline e-mail, to meet with you in person to discuss this like gentlemen over a beer. But at this point, I'm finished with this public discussion. It's looking like a continuation of a some sort of grudge that you're holding, and I don't really see how it has any place in a forum about CTR planning.

If you're attempting the CTR again this year, I wish you the best of luck--unconditionally and with my whole heart.

Edit: I'm still trying to understand why Chris is to pissed at me, and his refusal to respond is really getting to me. I think that some people don't like having their disasters critiqued, analyzed, or judged. I admit to being a little defensive when people have dug into my screw-ups. But I think that it's important for everyone, from newbies to vets, to learn from other's failures. Reading about various SNAFUs might be the best way to stay safe in the mountains--which is one reason why some S&R organizations post accident reports (complete with often very critical judgments). I respect Chris for posting his story--it provides an excellent set of instructions for what NOT to do on the CTR. He seemed to be pretty self-critical, so I figured that obliquely referring to his story wouldn't offend him. I honestly can't think of a better example of what can happen when sleep deprivation wins, and your mind goes to shit. I hope that people see my blog for what it is: an attempt to shed light on a very real danger that many of us have faced (or will face), not as a personal attack on Chris.

[dream4est]

Chris I read Toby's blog and his blurb on sleep deprivation does not disrespect you in any way.


From Toby:

Sleep deprivation. If humans don’t get enough sleep, we go crazy. First our reflexes slow and our reasoning skills lessen. Crashes become more common, and mental exercises such calculating mileage get tricky. Then we start to hallucinate. I've seen monsters in the darkness, even though I knew they weren't real.  Finally, we become delusional. The monsters aren't imaginary anymore, or so our sleep-deprived brains tell us. That’s when things get really scary. One racer in 2012 went bat-shit crazy, abandoning his equipment and flipping out only a few miles from the finish. If another racer hadn't come along and escorted him to civilization, bad things might have happened. But some degree of sleep deprivation is required if you intend to be competitive (it is a race), so knowing your limits is crucial. For me, hitting the hallucination phase is the point when I know that I need sleep within a few hours. That doesn't necessarily mean six hours of full-on beddy-time, but usually at least a fifteen-minute catnap. Learn what works best for you, and then remind yourself where to draw the line--before you get there.

Is there more I am missing?
If not that is some good advice IMO. We have all been there in the CTR at least once (two or 3 for me). I have done it in the AZT750 as well at least 2x. Not a Chris level experience but close enough to scare me bad.

I will tell you one of them.

AZT750. 2012. Late April. I was in Pine, AZ and I had only slept 2 hrs in the last 48. I was trying the catch Marshal Bird and Jill Hueckman. I was right on their asses. But I was running on fumes and they were sleeping in hotels basically. I would catch Marshal after an all night run and he would get way ahead. Well after a few days of this I lost my mind on the Highline Trail. I got to a spring about 3 miles in at dusk and got lost trying to follow the trail past the spring. I walked around for 45 minutes and then went into freak mode. Lost it completely. Called my girlfriend and then freaked out on her. Big time. Her friend was with her and was so scared she almost called search and rescue. I was nuts basically.

So it gets a little darker and I turn on my headlamp. A blaze lights up on a tree 40 yards away to the east-southeast (I had been searching east-northeast). The trail went a wonky way around the spring. I found the blaze after a little hike. And I realized I was in huge trouble mentally. I had lost my camera somewhere before. Then I lost my mind.

I slept and tried to move the next morning like nothing had happened. Well I was still goofy. I got a flat on a rare rideable section of the Highline. I flipped out again. After a 1 hr nightmare I was so mad I put the rear wheel on, didnt chain the cassette properly and ripped my derailleur cage in half cranking the wrong gear all pissed off about the flat.

Well I was really screwed then. I had to ride 20X34 granny gear Singlespeed for 2 days to get 90 miles to Flagstaff to fix my bike. I destroyed my achilles to do it. I finished the race but it took 2 extra days and I was ruined afterwards.

All because I didnt sleep. Had I got just a couple more hours none of the above probably would have happened.


So Chris I dont think Toby is dissing you. We all been there. It sucks.

[spoke537]

I was trying the catch Marshal Bird and Jill Hueckman. I was right on their asses. But I was running on fumes and they were sleeping in hotels basically.

Just for the record...Jill didn't stay in any hotels during the 2012 AZT.

[dream4est]

I think I do remember her in Pine in one holed up with bad feet. But mostly I was referring to Marshal, who got 2 in a row with excellent timing on his part.

I tried to hotel it at that point myself but never could make them. I think the point was Les that sleep deprivation can jack one up.

[Done]

I enjoyed a hotel on my first CTR finish. It was nice to grab a hot shower, dry out my gear, and sleep in a pre-made bed.

On my second finish, I skipped hotels. Not by intent, but rather I didn't hit any towns at the right time. I missed the creature comforts, but I slept just fine. After the first couple of nights, I'm usually so beat that I could sleep pretty much anywhere!

Going forward, I've decided that I'm going to skip hotels unless absolutely necessary. It just seemed a little soft, and I missed being outside. "Hotel" and "adventure" just don't seem like compatible words! But if I'm soaked to the bone, and really need a place to sort out my gear, I'd do it again.

[joeydurango]

I hit a hotel in Silverton on my first CTR.  If, that is, you can count sleeping on the floor in the lobby for four hours as a hotel... given that I had half a fresh, aromatic pizza in my backpack, it beat trying to fend off the bears.

[drchristiansen]

Hey Guys, I'm going to try the CTR for the first time this year.  I'm very excited and having a blast over thinking every detail.  My current fixation is on wheels.  I am planning on buying a new set of wheels for the trip, as well as other races I have coming up. I was looking at the Stan's tubeless Crest ZTR wheel set.  I'd love to hear people's opinions on their wheel, as well as tire choice....or point me to the right place in the forum.

Thanks!

[Gimmearaise]

I used Crests last year, had no issues...I may go with an Arch in the rear this year, just depends on how much I'm going to carry. Also make sure to look at the weight limit for the Crests on their site, that should also help you make you decision. As for tires, its all personal preference, I like something that rolls fast. So I tend to sacrifice when it gets sloppy. I will be rocking Maxxis Icon 2.35 up front and a 2.2 in the rear.

[Done]

Hey Guys, I'm going to try the CTR for the first time this year.  I'm very excited and having a blast over thinking every detail.  My current fixation is on wheels.  I am planning on buying a new set of wheels for the trip, as well as other races I have coming up. I was looking at the Stan's tubeless Crest ZTR wheel set.  I'd love to hear people's opinions on their wheel, as well as tire choice....or point me to the right place in the forum.
Thanks!

I don't know about the rims, but I really liked the combination of a Conti Mountain-King II up front and a Conti X-King on the rear. Both ProTection versions. When it got wet and mucky, the Mountain King was nice and secure on the descents. The X-King provided plenty of climbing traction.

[Mini Bear]

If you're looking at the Stans, you might consider the WTB KOM's as well. They are in between the Crest and Arch EX weight wise, but wider than either. I've built up a couple sets for customers and have been very impressed by how nicely they build up. In the limited riding that I've done on them, they seem to track better as well. And your tire choice is always going to be a compromise. There are places on the course that would be waaaaay more fun/easier with a big, knobby tire, other sections that you would do well to ride a semi-slick. If you're a confident bike handler, go with something lighter and faster rolling (Ikon, Spec. Fastrack, Racing Raplh, etc.), if you would like to have a little more fun/security, run something bigger (Ardent, Spec. Captain, Nobby Nic, etc.).

[Couloirman]

Go WIDE carbon for the rims! I recommend either Light Bicycle or Derby china carbon rims if on a budget, but if you're really a doctor, you can probably afford to go with ENVE I have sets of each and they are awesome. The 27.5" Derby rims are 40mm wide and they feel indestructible.

Glad this thread got bumped. So stoked to ride the CT this summer. It's haunting my dreams.

[T.Ray]

Geez,all this talk of sleep deprivation.I'm going to take a nap.

[Shirey]

Back for another go in 2014. Just made my entry fee donation to the Colorado Trail Foundation.

So glad this thread got some life again too...

Tires? Last year I used a big fat Maxxis Ardent 2.4 on the front and a 2.25 on the rear... both EXO protection.... no flats or tears or nothing, so I'll likely use that again.

[sherpaxc]

Yeah, I'll be rolling on Ardent 2.4 front and back on my El Mariachi.  Same as last time with no flats.  Love those tires. 

How is the snow pack up yonder?