2014 TDR ‘grand depart’ from the North or leave from the lonely South?

[Marshal]

Which is most appealing?  Join in with all the stoke that goes hand in hand with the momentous Grand Depart up North?  Or the depart from the South and it’s relative solitude, and perhaps more classic atmosphere?

[bartspedden]

having never raced the TDR but dreamed of it often...

Clearly starting with everyone at least once is something that seems like a must for me. But I've thought that starting down south makes more sense. You would get through the hotter parts of NM when it's cooler and you would give the northern passes a chance to melt out.

I wonder what the veterans think about this logic?

[Marshal]

having never raced the TDR but dreamed of it often...

Clearly starting with everyone at least once is something that seems like a must for me. But I've thought that starting down south makes more sense. You would get through the hotter parts of NM when it's cooler and you would give the northern passes a chance to melt out.

I wonder what the veterans think about this logic?

well you hit a big part of the nail right in the head--both the lure of experiencing the GD up N, but also some possible logistical advantages with a S start.  of course the S start did not play to well in 2013 with floods and all, but that seems less common than fires

[THE LONG RANGER]

I think doing another go SoBo would be more refining strategies I already know. Going NoBo would somewhat shake things up a bit.

Thinking about getting NM out of the way, seems like the rest of the route is icing! I'm not sure how big of a temp. diff. they're be with getting NM out of the way after a few weeks, but having a bike in perfect condition to get through NM, before hitting up Absolute Bikes in Salida sure does seem like a better way to do things, rather than rolling out of Salida with a bike that has developed some, ahem, "personalities".

I'm a little puzzled why more people don't start NoBo, as the logistics of getting home from Banff seem a lot easier, with a commercial shuttle service from Banff to Calgary and from there: anywhere you want. 

[Briansong]

I was also considering a NoBo. If I am fortunate enough to get to AW. I will probably go NoBo the following year. The tradition of the GD in Banff is just too appealing to miss. Bartspedden reasons are exactly why I was considering the NoBo.

Steve

[Marshal]

Southbound , It's the traditional start. The excitement, the atmosphere of the grand depart. The knowledge you'll have plenty of people with similar capabilities to race head to head with. Even the fact that the spot tracking page is set up primarily for south bounders.  
 All these things pull one towards the traditional grand depart.

That said,there's just something about a northbound depart that's attractive.  Just show up in the middle nowhere pull the trigger and go.  A little closer to at ITT, but still part of the whole TDR experience.

[sherpaxc]

If I were to do it (and in about 10 years I will), it will be northbound for the exact reasons ya'll are discussing.  I'd rather have the mountains as a final destination to hang out and recoup in. 

[MikeI]

Well, it's northbound from AW for me, mainly because it's a couple hours drive from the "dirty T" over to AW, so no bike to be reassembled out of a box in the Calgary airport, etc..   And I also tought going north would get me through NM before the fires start and then maybe the snow is mostly melted up north.   But I would like to hear what others think about prevailing winds, and north vs south for some of the harder climbs !   

[Marshal]

Well, it's northbound from AW for me, mainly because it's a couple hours drive from the "dirty T" over to AW, so no bike to be reassembled out of a box in the Calgary airport, etc..   And I also tought going north would get me through NM before the fires start and then maybe the snow is mostly melted up north.   But I would like to hear what others think about prevailing winds, and north vs south for some of the harder climbs !  

On paper one would think a NB rider would stand a better chance of missing the fires that seem to plague NM. Less snow up north is also assured with the NB depart, but while unlikely, it’s still possible you could arrive to impassable snow.
Personally I think chances will be better, but only ‘slightly’ better, for a NB racer to get in a full no-detour run.  (I think if picking the best odds for a no-detour run were  a racer’s ‘main’ consideration, a fall start, would provide the highest probability of said no-detour run)

Anyway, MikeI, what time you planning to start from AW?  Extra early to beat the heat?  

How far do you plan to get the 1st day?

And are you planning on following the main ACA route in NM, or the pavement options that have become the de facto TDR race route?

Best of luck on your run…………

[MikeI]

On paper one would think a NB rider would stand a better chance of missing the fires that seem to plague NM. Less snow up north is also assured with the NB depart, but while unlikely, it’s still possible you could arrive to impassable snow.
Personally I think chances will be better, but only ‘slightly’ better, for a NB racer to get in a full no-detour run.  (I think if picking the best odds for a no-detour run were  a racer’s ‘main’ consideration, a fall start, would provide the highest probability of said no-detour run)

Anyway, MikeI, what time you planning to start from AW?  Extra early to beat the heat? 

How far do you plan to get the 1st day?

And are you planning on following the main ACA route in NM, or the pavement options that have become the de facto TDR race route?

Best of luck on your run…………

I believe a group of folks left AW on the same day at about the same time as the Grand Depart in Banff … seem to remember a picture of about 8 or so all lined up, so I thought I would be a part of that.  So it's probably June 13, should be nice and toasty.   

Getting to Silver on the 1st day would be pretty sweet, will just have to see.  The distance is do-able, but the dirt on Separ Road might turn that all on it's head !

I downloaded the GPS file "TourDivide2012_v2.gpx" from topofusion.com.  I seem to remember in last year's discussions that it was the "official" route, so it's already in my Garmin eTrex 30, and it worked just fine when I rode a little bit of the road pieces a few weeks ago.   Plan to markup my ACA maps per that file when I start getting serious about figuring out where food is.   Back in Sept, I took a picture of a sign at the intersection of NM 35 and FR 150 that said "No Services Next 120 Miles" …  so some serious planning needs to be done !

Someone completed a ride through the Gila though a few weeks ago, and parts of that area had trucks and cars and road-graders and heavy equipment that had been essentially sunk in mud, so along with all of the problems in Canada, there are some good ones in NM.

Going to be interesting !

[Marshal]

MikeI, Including the ‘sort- of-dirt’  from when you  turn L off Hwy 81 there is 40 total miles of dirt/gravel till you hit the pave again at Hwy 90.  Minus a headwind this dirt section rolls quite fast in either direction, but it is more uphill overall going north.  But best of all, as soon as you head north from Separ and get away from the interstate you can begin to feel some desert remoteness!

But minus headwinds, I think a key to the AW-Silver City section is whether the Separ store is open for business.  If so cold water and snacks at mile 70 of 120.  If not --no big deal-- but one will need to lug a lot of water right from the start, especially if it’s hot.

Anyone know if the Separ store is open nowadays?

[wookieone]

I have been debating this myself. I like doing Grand Departs, group starts in general, feel more like a race, event. Yet after doing the TD in 2011 and missing huge sections due to snow I want to see the whole thing. Watching this years race and seeing the forest fires closures in NM makes me wonder? I also quite honestly want a go at the record.
So hard when one needs to commit to such an endeavor as soon as possible for training, saving money, getting time off work life etc, and winter hasn't even happened yet!!!
There is the fall timing, but not for me.
I am leaning towards the GD June 13th in Banff, but with so many of us it seems more circus like, for the first day or so anyways, I mean wasn't there like 140 last year? Too many for an unsanctioned race, if you ask me.
I do know that I am finding myself once again immersed in this Tour Divide Thing, TDT? so much to think about....
want it, need it, can almost taste it.....
Jefe

[Marshal]

I have been debating this myself. I like doing Grand Departs, group starts in general, feel more like a race, event. Yet after doing the TD in 2011 and missing huge sections due to snow I want to see the whole thing. Watching this years race and seeing the forest fires closures in NM makes me wonder? I also quite honestly want a go at the record.
So hard when one needs to commit to such an endeavor as soon as possible for training, saving money, getting time off work life etc, and winter hasn't even happened yet!!!
There is the fall timing, but not for me.
I am leaning towards the GD June 13th in Banff, but with so many of us it seems more circus like, for the first day or so anyways, I mean wasn't there like 140 last year? Too many for an unsanctioned race, if you ask me.
I do know that I am finding myself once again immersed in this Tour Divide Thing, TDT? so much to think about....
want it, need it, can almost taste it.....
Jefe

I also am hearing that seductive TDR call again.  And the sometimes overwhelming TDR immersion is trying to take a hold of me and drag me back…..  I dug out the old aerobars today, started playing with my piles of gear and bags, reloaded the track files and calculated the monthly weight loss I would need to attain.  As I drift off to sleep at night I have begun to pre-ride each race day in my mind (both NB and SB) it’s like counting sheep, I am usually asleep by around day 5…..……well, we will see if it goes anywhere for 2014…..

Personally a SB GD would give me many mid pack racers to “pull & push” me along.  And I would sort of like to better my 2010 time.  But as there are no age classifications & with the ever larger/faster field a shot at a top ten is simply beyond me.  This makes the pure race mentality I followed in 2010 a little less appealing.  I would love to see the GD start spread out over several days, with age classifications being one of the ways to split the field into smaller starting groups. But that isn’t going to happen so……… a NB depart appeals to me in so many ways beyond ‘best time’.  I would really like to see the entire ACA route but if you are going for time it’s tough to justify skipping those 2 long pave detours.  And a NB start would put the detours at the front of the race where one might be more inclined to give the main route a shot.  Plus it would be just plain fun to do the logistics backwards.  

Lots of personal motives to ponder over the next few months in addition to checking off all the usual to-do lists

[wookieone]

Right On Marshall, hope to see ya out there!!!

[Prometheus]

I started ITT from AW in 2013 and plan to do the same in 2014, may mid-May.  Unfortunately, my rear hub failed at the northern end of New Mexico and I had to drop out.  I loved the solitude of the NM ITT start.  The only real problem (other than the hub) was too many flats near the start.  The cactus needles even near the side of the road were tough on the tires (four flats the first day).  I will probably start much earlier in the day to avoid the trucks coming up across the border and enable riding in the middle of the road.  That being said, if you start any time near when the border opens, expect big cattle trucks to pass you going well above the speed limit.  The trucks were very courteous giving plenty of space, but double long trucks doing 80 mph past you is just a tiny bit unsettling.

I thought the advantage of less heat at the start would be good plan, but my first day high of 107 showed even the first week of June can be very hot down there.  Plenty of water in cattle cisterns so water resupply is really not an issue if you don't mind sharing with the cows.

2013 was my first attempt, so not able to make comparisons.  One final note, NBers skip the single track near Breck, so you will need to modify your GPS file accordingly.  Easy enough to do with garmin software.

[wookieone]

Just wanted to say how awesome it is that so many people share their experiences on bikepacking...such a great thing!
Jefe

[Marshal]

I started ITT from AW in 2013 and plan to do the same in 2014, may mid-May.  Unfortunately, my rear hub failed at the northern end of New Mexico and I had to drop out.  I loved the solitude of the NM ITT start.  The only real problem (other than the hub) was too many flats near the start.  The cactus needles even near the side of the road were tough on the tires (four flats the first day).  I will probably start much earlier in the day to avoid the trucks coming up across the border and enable riding in the middle of the road.  That being said, if you start any time near when the border opens, expect big cattle trucks to pass you going well above the speed limit.  The trucks were very courteous giving plenty of space, but double long trucks doing 80 mph past you is just a tiny bit unsettling.

I thought the advantage of less heat at the start would be good plan, but my first day high of 107 showed even the first week of June can be very hot down there.  Plenty of water in cattle cisterns so water resupply is really not an issue if you don't mind sharing with the cows.

2013 was my first attempt, so not able to make comparisons.  One final note, NBers skip the single track near Breck, so you will need to modify your GPS file accordingly.  Easy enough to do with garmin software.

Having to stop from losing a hub, that hurts........
 
How soon would you need to start to avoid the border opening traffic?
Did you stop at Separ?

[Prometheus]

Having to stop from losing a hub, that hurts........
 
How soon would you need to start to avoid the border opening traffic?
Did you stop at Separ?

I'm thinking about 4:00 AM should get you off the main highway in time to miss most of the traffic and still make Separ for open hours.  The border station opens at 8:00 and it is 65 miles to the interstate.  So, if you can average about 15 mph, you should be good.  I left about 7:00 AM and probably will try for 4:00 AM this year.

Separ is a nice stop for sports drinks and ice cream.  Friendly people in the store that know about the race and are willing to let you set and cool off as long as you need.  I am not entirely sure what the hours are for the Separ store or how regular they are open.

[bpeschka]

I'm way out of synch with the mainstream here.  I will do a SoBo ride this year, but won't be there for the Grand Depart.  One of the things that attracted me to TD was the first sentence of the description over at TourDivide.com:  "Tour Divide ... Is a solo, self-supported ultra-cycling challenge ...".  Hardly the case if I'm launching into the wilds with 100+ of my new BFFs, at least not for me.

SoBo is attractive to me because I used to live 10 miles West of Hachita and work about 10 miles NW of the finish line.  A copper smelter, now gone, and an attendant company town.  Also, Antelope Wells is relatively convenient for pickup when it's over.  My wife can be there in a few hours from Phoenix when I eventually finish.

[bpeschka]

But minus headwinds, I think a key to the AW-Silver City section is whether the Separ store is open for business.  If so cold water and snacks at mile 70 of 120.  If not --no big deal-- but one will need to lug a lot of water right from the start, especially if it’s hot.

Anyone know if the Separ store is open nowadays?

I stopped at Separ a year ago, December, and they seemed fine.  I've driven by a few times, since, and they've been in business.  I'm not sure I've ever seen them not in business.  I don't know what keeps them open, since there aren't any gas pumps.  They aren't a 24 hrs operation but I don't know the hours.  We may be passing thru there again in the next few weeks.  I'll see if I can find their hours.

When I stopped there last year, I found a working water faucet at the NW corner of the building.  I'm not sure I'd drink the water without letting it run for a while and/or treating it since it's hard to tell how long it's been sitting in those pipes.