2015 TD

[dream4est]

ABfolder got me to re-thinking and refining my thoughts about bear spray, so naturally I bloged it up............

thanks ABfolder

Hi Marshal. I saw you got a Scale!! Nice. I just want to say one thing about the fork. I ran that fork on the Spark in TD and the bushings failed at 2000 miles. I run a Reba now. So remember that: Fox uses sloppy tolerances to achieve plush butteryness. IMO the Rock Shox forks (Sid and Reba) are tighter, but need more cleaning/lube attention at the wiper area. I run a lot of lockout- IMO that killed the fox fork but doesnt kill a reba. My 2010 Reba Dual Air had 8000 miles and still had usable bushing/stanchion action.

YMMV- but I would hesitate to run a Fox in the TD. Rigid or RS would be my call.

I agree with you on Scott Bikes and the GXP bb92. Mine still runs with a little bearing noise after td/ctr. My DT240 carbon wheelset had no bearing issues but I may replace the rear cassette ones and the DS endcap.
Edit- I should replace front bearings too- nasty rust water came out after TD. Wheel spins nice but who knows what those cartridges look like?

1x9 with a 10sp chain was money. I cant seem to dial in a 1x10 with 42t cog that works as well, so I may go 1x11 like you did.

Its going to be hard to stay anywhere near you with that lighter setup. Damn!

[bmike-vt]

Marshals post highlights why I still sometimes carry my wingnut hyper 3. It's just so damned conveninet for all the stuff I like on my person - SPOT, wallet, phone, lip balm, sunscreen, knife (in the little mesh strap pouch, etc.

Have carried bear spray on the bike here in the east for 1 trip. Sort of for piece of mind, and sort of for the locals. Would consider it for the TD, and already have a bell on the bike and a whistle on the pack.

[wickerer]

With the increasing number of riders each year, far too many are showing up with little to no backcountry experience in the mountains. I'm not only concerned about the lack of bear spray in gear, I'm also seeing people who are riding in hypothermia-inducing conditions without adequate clothing and gear due to the TD standard of pushing the weight limit to the lowest extreme. That'll kill you just as effectively as an aggressive bear. When I read of people rolling into Ovando or Wise River who can barely stand up or hold a coffee cup due to the onset of hypothermia, I don't categorize that as risky, I say it's plain foolish because someone on the receiving end has to take care of them. Self-supported? No. My observation is that Ride the Divide has attracted too many competitors who don't fully comprehend the risks. I reckon you do -- but that doesn't apply equally across the board and you should know that yourself. 150+ riders nowadays -- some coming in from Europe and elsewhere -- is a completely different show than seven racers lining up in 2004. Thigpen's book describes a chilled-to-the-core German biker asking him when the nearest town was coming up -- this was on Cabin Pass in the dark if memory serves me correctly. What the hell was he doing out there? That guy didn't even have basic navigation skills.

So many questions... But I think I can help with your last one: We had our annual reunion of German riders of the 2013 TD yesterday and thought really hard who the guy was that you are talking about. All of us passed Cabin Pass on day 2 in daylight, feeling comfortable and warm and in really good terms. And to answer the question what we were doing out there: We enjoyed the ride of our lifetime.

I agree with most of what you say. But I would appreciate if you don't judge participants by their origin. Even people from Europe or elsewhere can show up well prepared, with more than basic navigation skills and can not only comprehend the risks but even develop strategies to minimize them.

Thanks,
Thomas

[ABfolder]

So many questions... But I think I can help with your last one: We had our annual reunion of German riders of the 2013 TD yesterday and thought really hard who the guy was that you are talking about. All of us passed Cabin Pass on day 2 in daylight, feeling comfortable and warm and in really good terms. And to answer the question what we were doing out there: We enjoyed the ride of our lifetime.

I agree with most of what you say. But I would appreciate if you don't judge participants by their origin. Even people from Europe or elsewhere can show up well prepared, with more than basic navigation skills and can not only comprehend the risks but even develop strategies to minimize them.

Thanks,
Thomas

I wasn't specifically judging the Germans, Thomas. My grandparents of German stock emigrated to Canada in the '30s i.e. my surname is German. If Thigpen had mentioned an Italian or Somalian (or, god forbid, a Canadian) rider, I would have used them as an example instead. And I'm well aware of the mountainous/riverine nature of the German landscape -- I'm a foldboater/faltbooter, too -- and know what you hardy folks are capable of doing, including legendary exploits by the likes of Hannes Lindemann. I apologize profusely if I have offended anyone in the land of my ancestors. That was certainly not my intention.

Update on my eating of crow: It gets even worse. Apparently my memory didn't serve me well at all: It turns out that it wasn't Scott Thigpen's book that mentioned a "German" racer (quick shameless plug for Scott's fine book anyway http://softpedaling.com/ ). I went looking for the reference tonight and found it in the latest Cordillera on page 24 in the article by Andrew Schuhmann (suitably the title includes the descriptor "Ignoramus" -- and I'm looking in the mirror when I mention that). The rider in question was speaking with "a thick European accent" and might be mentioned earlier in that narrative. I dare not go any further with this for fear of causing even more trouble. Menu for next several days: Crow -- boiled, sauteed and pan-fried!

On another, less-embarrassing subject -- Authentic Cougar Protection Masks -- I just received an answer to my query about the mask's availability from an "Earl de Vries" presumably in Edmonton, Alberta (using the old email address listed in the link upthread): "Yes, I am [still selling them]. only 1500 left. $2.00@". I think the part about "only 1500 left" was a bit of a sad joke. Apparently sales forecasts might have been a tad optimistic. They originally retailed for $12 CDN + postage. I'll add a post with pics for further study and contemplation. If nothing else, they would definitely make a great conversation piece on the trail!

[THE LONG RANGER]

Great blog Marshal.  I like the race vest idea (I think LongRanger uses an Ultimate Direction vest?).

Yeah, for last summer, I started experiment using the Ultimate Direction vests (UD is local to Boulder, where I live, now), as my project involved quite a bit of running/hiking and my MTB pack was killing my lower back. I was a bit worried that the vest wouldn't work well with riding, but I was seriously surprised at how well it filled the role as a MTB pack. Some pluses - I use the Peter Bakwin model:

* The vest rides high, so your jersey pockets are actually still accessible. This is super convenient if you have things like a SPOT, wallet, tunes, etc in those pockets, already. No need to rewire your brain, if you're used to taking a few hour long spin, and just pop some stuff in your jersey pockets. My worry is that the vest rode so high, it would cause problems with my lower back. There's no hip strap on these vests, which I also thought counter-intuitive, but never was a problem. The vest also automatically compresses, so if you don't have much in it, the contents aren't rattling around.

* The vest is *small*. Even the Bakwin can be stuffed down into something that's small enough to pack inside your seat bag, if you don't need it. In one of my TD's, I used a small Sea to Summit sil nylon stuff sack with shoulder straps to fill the role, when I needed to pack a lot of food, for a longer haul.

* The vest hugs your body, and doesn't sway, making it very comfortable. It also has a ton of area around your pits, to keep you pretty well ventilated.

* Tons of room up front to place stuff. The worst thing about having a pack, is having to take it off to grab things out of it. These vests usually have ample places to store stuff in the front, so you don't have to do that so often. You could put even bottles up there (as many runners do), but that placement may get in the way of riding, if your position is leaning forward. Food would work. Heck, bear spray would work I've wondered how useful this additional bottle placements would be when you really need to camel up. When I needed to put a coat on, I just put it over of the vest.

Don't expect too much room inside of these vests - 10L for the Bakwin model probably is generous, if you count every pocket available. I had some problems if I packed something like a jar of peanut butter, or something else with hard edges - not much padding on your back.

[ABfolder]

 Food would work. Heck, bear spray would work

Now yer talkin'! 

[flyboy]

Crikey, Dave, you must live a sheltered life: http://www.hotelclub.com/blog/australias-top-animal-hazards/ . Besides jellyfish in your neck of the woods -- folks, they actually use chainlink fence swimming enclosures to keep those deadly pests out in Queensland -- you also have the disemboweling champions of the world, the cassowary https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLXGSVGerT8 + https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YA58sS3x2Oo . I mention the latter because I had a male cassowary (with growing chicks -- the male is a Mr Mom and takes care of them) chase me around my car up at the birding hotspot of Mission Beach http://www.missionbeachcassowaries.com/ (note the cassowary deaths due to vehicle collisions on the map insert -- a fate they share with griz in the Canadian Rockies). And let's not even touch the subject of crocs up Queensland way. We got as far as the Daintree Rainforest on our wanderings while living and working in Oz for 5 years. Great place but I like Canada better -- at least when I'm not shovelling snow for 8 months of the year or thinking about trailside grizzly bears the other 4.

** Afterthought: The odds of seeing that male cassowary emerge from the bush 20 metres away from where I was standing -- with two youngsters behind him no less -- rates with winning the Lotto in terms of likelihood of happening. In fact, it easily trumps encountering a griz or cougar on the Tour Divide. Just because the odds of having an unexpected (life threatening) wildlife encounter are infinitesimally small, doesn't mean that it can't happen.

I may have been talking slightly tongue in cheek there AB. If you stay out of the water here you are pretty safe. Nothing is going to eat you alive, unlike bears and cougars where you are. The chances of meeting a Cassowary are extremely slim for 99% of the population with their habitat being a relatively uninhabited section of the country.
I guess what I mean is that I know how to manage our risks having grown up in the bush(Australian for a small country town). They are instinctive but going to a completely foreign environment makes you acutely aware of how much one's local knowledge can be taken for granted. I will be educating myself and packing spray.

Regarding the route out of Elkford, I put the question to Matt Lee a while back, and here is his response:

So it sounds like Matthew will engage the whole 'routes & rules' discussion a bit closer to race day.  I bought the maps and cues (txt file), and am in the process of adapting them (the cues that is) to my own sinister purposes.  Having said that, a while back someone mentioned that the Canada portion of the GDMBR may be updated early in 2015, so there may be a new map on the horizon - and presumably, new cues to match.  In any event, make sure whatever cues you use follow the latest greatest ACA maps AND addenda when you line up at the start.

-dp

DP, thanks. I will watch this space regarding a rules spruce-up.

[ABfolder]

Bears and cougars? A finishing touch:

Cougar Mask in detail (I used thin stretch cord to attach it to my daughter's daypack/clothing when she was small and easy prey):

[ABfolder]

The final (?) word on bears:

http://www.cbc.ca/thecurrent/episode/2013/05/14/why-we-need-to-get-over-our-fear-of-bears/ (Click on the Listen link)

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/story.html?id=46dbd175-91a2-4135-a941-8b47df1ee475

The radio interview is worth listening to because it targeted a guy who knows what he's talking about -- wildlife biologist Van Tighem is a former Superintendent of Banff National Park and had a sister who was viciously attacked by a grizzly. His modern "technological solution" to help get over our fear of bears? Bear spray! Surprise, surprise. If his sister and her husband had both been equipped with it, they would've got out of a tight jam relatively unscathed.

SlowRide brought up a valid point about the probability of getting struck by lightning as being much higher than being attacked by a bear or cougar. The difference is this: the first can kill you on the spot in about a millisecond i.e. almost instantly; the second doesn't (use your imagination on the possibilities/permutations of a long gruesome death or injury). Patricia Ann Van Tighem not only suffered horrendous physical damage during her attack and lost an eye, she also relived that experience mentally for decades afterwards accompanied by a daily/nightly dose of pain.

Waterton Lakes National Park, where Kevin describes encountering a sow with cubs, is just east of the Flathead in Alberta. In August, when I go down there to bear-watch (my favourite place in Canada to observe them -- Hyder, Alaska is my top spot) I've seen over 20 individual bears there in a single day -- both black and griz. The park also has a healthy population of cougars due to the abundant game in the region (elk, bighorn and deer). Useful info: http://www.pc.gc.ca/eng/pn-np/ab/waterton/visit/visit12.aspx#tphp .

If you won't listen to me, listen to Kevin and go buy a technological marvel -- bear spray -- that could save your life or someone else's.

IMPORTANT NOTE: Bear spray will work in freezing temperatures but will not spray as far due to a decrease in pressure (from the cooler temperatures). The trick to boost the pressure? Carry the spray under a wind/rain jacket in a chest holster http://www.udap.com/sprayholsters.htm, in a runner's vest pocket as used and described upthread by Justin and Marshal or in the water bottle pocket of a smaller fanny pack. A jersey pocket would also work but will get irritating over a long period of time. Using that under-the-jacket warm-up method, bear spray has been used effectively in Churchill, Manitoba against polar bears at temperatures in the range of 12F/-12C to -6F/-22C.

For info on lightning precautions, read this: http://www.cmc.org/Portals/0/GoverningDocs/NOLS%20Lightning%20Safety%20Guidelines.pdf

[THE LONG RANGER]

Here's that Grizz Map, I had alluded to,

[ABfolder]

Good map, Justin. I'd seen another version but yours is far better.

[sfuller]

Yeah, for last summer, I started experiment using the Ultimate Direction vests (UD is local to Boulder, where I live, now), as my project involved quite a bit of running/hiking and my MTB pack was killing my lower back.

Thanks for the link to the UD site. That 4L vest is worth some thought for what I would want to carry.

[Flinch]

This subject comes up every year - I can hardly BEAR it -

Best video I've seen re how to live with bears, and it tackles some myths out there: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PExlT-5VU-Y

Dr. Tom Smith, co-researcher with bear guru Dr. Herrero (you have read Herrero's book?) , gives a lecture re bears and how they tick. He busts some myths like:
 - Wave your arms at bears ("What, are they supposed to resemble rubber antlers?")
- Play dead when a bear is nearby ("Lady get up, the bear will EAT you!")
- Shout at Grizzlies ("You aren't going to beat the bear at his game.")

The dude is seriously funny, and he's been there N done that. Give a look.

He also gives real good advice on bear spray, such as never go out without it.   Gives good statistics on guns vs bear spray, versus no 'protection'. As a red blooded American who loves noisy firepower, personally I would much rather be armed with spray (and carried it in 2013).

Bottom line: real rare to have a bear injure you. But if they do - man is your a$$ sushi !  

For all those coming from Europe, beware of our lethal Jackalope that ranges from east Montana to Wyoming. Big teeth. Buggers are fast and you never see 'em until it's too late. Just sayin'

[Marshal]

For all those coming from Europe, beware of our lethal Jackalope that ranges from east Montana to Wyoming. Big teeth. Buggers are fast and you never see 'em until it's too late. Just sayin'

Actually Jackalopes are quite common with a much larger range than E MT to WY.  You will quite often see examples mounted on walls of touristy type eatery’s and other establishments all across the west.  The real debate about Jackalopes is not how common they are but rather how lethal they can be and the best ways to avoid them in the wild.

[ABfolder]

Best video I've seen re how to live with bears, and it tackles some myths out there: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PExlT-5VU-Y

He also gives real good advice on bear spray, such as never go out without it.  

Bottom line: real rare to have a bear injure you. But if they do - man is your a$$ sushi !  

Flinch, that is one heckuva good video. Smith is a real joker. His main points over that hour -- and it would have been nice if they'd summarized it in the comments section -- are:
 
1) Always carry bear spray in bear country: it helps you and the bear survive if a rare conflict arises.
2) Stand your ground (don't run off or even back up) ... while getting the spray out to use. Don't yell loudly or wave your arms overhead -- you should be concentrating on getting that spray out.
3) In a group of even TWO people, bunch up to look formidable. The more in a tight line the better.
4) If the bear gets within 20 feet, deploy the spray regardless of the animal's actions. [If it's barreling down on you in a full charge, I'd deploy a short blast before it gets that close so it deeply inhales the spray while going through that wall of vapour. Then hit it again with a 2-second blast. And again, if necessary. You've got about 7 seconds worth of spray in the smaller canisters.]
5) DO NOT play dead and do not avert your gaze. Stand your ground, keep your eyes on the bear and spray it if necessary.
6) While it's recommended to keep the spray close at hand in a chest or belt holster -- or pack strap -- the best defense in a known bear hotspot is having it in hand with the safety off and ready to go at a moment's notice (which is all you might get for advance warning). See 1:10:00 to 1:14:03. That recommendation is obviously more applicable to hikers than bikers.

Bear bells? On a bike, I view them as a waste of time because of the speed you're normally going and the noise of a bike travelling over a trail or gravel road. A whistle or loud yell travels farther. Smith writes them off totally because of a dubious study he did on the Katmai. In the 80s, a published study in the Journal of Wildlife Management that looked at hikers in Glacier National Park found that bear bells prevented charges: http://www.backpacker.com/news-and-events/news/trail-news/do-bear-bells-really-work/ . The bears were conditioned to the bells and knew that hikers were attached to them. Bears in Glacier travel into Waterton Park and even over into B.C. (likely including the Flathead) so I'd be more than happy to hike with them in those areas -- with bear spray in hand, of course. Shaking a few nuts and bolts in a tin can works as well and is louder. At blind bushy corners and near rivers and streams, you add loud vocals. When other hikers are approaching from the opposite direction, out of courtesy, you tone it down.

[robinb]

The final (?) word on bears:


SlowRide brought up a valid point about the probability of getting struck by lightning as being much higher than being attacked by a bear or cougar. The difference is this: the first can kill you on the spot in about a millisecond i.e. almost instantly;

I really hate seeing people use stats like this.  Just to put it into context - how many  (tens or hundreds) millions of people are exposed to lightning every year? How many people are exposed to bear environments every year?  I would think there would be more lightning strikes, but...

I live in a high density bear area.  In the past few years - I personally know of 1 person killed by a bear - 1 person (who I found) mauled to the point they probably wish they had died. I know NO ONE WHO HAS BEEN STRUCK BY LIGHTNIG...

Please be scared of bears... respect them, expect the unexpected. Rogue bears that attack humans do not react they way we are trained to think they will.  Carry your bear spray. Keep it close for quick discharge. Know how to get the safety off fast... practice and test.

[THE LONG RANGER]

Yeah - I don't know if the two can really be compared that way - both are going to be issues that you may want to address. Lightning in the summer, in Colorado here, above treeline is certainly a danger, and certainly nothing to fool around with. Many people have died in my immediate area this year from lightning strikes specifically. In the context of the Tour Divide, you'll want to be careful, most especially at the top of mountain passes - Indiana Pass most especially (above treeline). Problems with lightning is pretty big issue in something like the Colorado Trail Race, where you're over 12,000 feet for hours at a time, with little cover. The Tour Divide though is mostly ridden much lower, which can help alleviate the risks to lightning. I wouldn't want to be on something even like Richmond Peak, during an electrical storm though. (Lightning is also the cause of many of the forest fires that plague the route, as well)

[Jilleo]

When I lived in Montana I would carry bear spray in a holster attached to the shoulder strap of my backpack. It's no more annoying than those water bottles runners like to wear, and is very quick to access in that spot.

I also fall in the "do what works for you" crowd, but I'm a proponent of carrying an 11 oz canister of pepper spray the entire length of the Divide, especially for women. Some of those areas are pretty remote but nearly all accessible by vehicle, and there are some characters out there. I experienced creepy cat calls and felt iffy about pulling off to bivy in some areas. The bear spray gave me some peace of mind, and I believe it would be effective in deterring an advance, at least involving an unarmed individual. Stranger danger is a small concern statistically, but it still outranks animal attacks.

[THE LONG RANGER]

I mean, it happens:

“We had a major electrical storm, thunder, lightening, a little bit of moisture, Kerrin just missed it,” Tompkins wrote. “What we think happened is that halfway down Boreas (Pass), Jesse had a flat, he was running tubeless and put a tube in. Coming into Como, it is pretty open; he was found on the town limits dazed and confused, cycling with a totally flat tire saying he was looking for a guy called Como. We sat him down, got some water and coke into him. We thought he had major concussion. He had obviously come down on his right side, knee and wrist hurt but no cuts or major abrasions. Now he is now lucid, but it took him sometime to come around, he was insisting he was third in the race, all he rembers was the thunder and lightening. We think he was near a lightening hit and was blown off his bike.”

- http://halfpastdone.com/2013/06/23/tour-divide-day-ten-rough-day-for-the-blues/

[ABfolder]

I really hate seeing people use stats like this.  Just to put it into context - how many  (tens or hundreds) millions of people are exposed to lightning every year?

In the high passes of Colorado, especially, SlowRide and Justin have very valid points. There may not be griz up there but you can get fried by lightning and die, too. If you don't die instantly, there's a chance that you'll have brain/nerve damage that'll last the rest of your life. I'm all for carrying bear spray, but you need to read the NOLS link I provided upthread and ready yourself for that threat as well.