2016 Tour Divide Preparation

[SouthDownsMTB]

UK riders, where have you got your insurance from and what level of cover did you get?

It's a minefield! 

[Rob Colliver]

Snowcard covers me for everything and for any length of time you ask.
They have policies that will cover you for flying to the moon and back.
 I get mtb events, 60 days of N America skiing for approx £400 that covers both of us.

[GregMay]

BMC here.

[kiwidave]

ERV insurance for me.

[Askjeff]

I know the more info the better; in response to an earlier inquiry. I have completed both the TDR and Colorado Trail Race using two different systems. On the CTR I brought a Hyper-Lite tarp, a Borah light weight bivvy, a Western Mountaineering Summer light bag and a Klymit skeleton air mattress. This set was very versatile and protected me in a few all night rain storms as well as packing super light and small. Out of this set up, I would drop the mattress pad as it made for many nights waking up "adjusting" my position, and choose another pad or use an insulated windscreen shield, which cost $8 at any automotive store.

On the TDR I  was a bit more conservative and brought a Big Agnes Flycreek 2 Platinum with my WM bag and the windscreen pad. I felt because of the length of the ride, increasing the possibility of inclement conditions I would be better served with a tent. As we know the weather was mostly dry and warm in 2015. Many nights I was so spent that I simply placed my ground cover down with the light pad and bag. Other nights when I was in bear country (Montana/BC) I was glad to have the "perceived" security of the tent.

My opinion based on these two rides is that if you are practiced using a tarp, choose a tarp-bivvy-bag combination as it offers the most versatility and ease of use. The tent and the psychology behind having a tent will in some ways slow you down (my own opinion) as you are more picky what camp you choose and of course the tendency to lay in a bit longer...comes down to comfort level. By the way I was NOBO on the TDR...

Also, definitely GPS for navigation and load maps and cues into your phone. After you get in rhythm you will likely only use a GPS. I do recognize the usefulness of maps and cues, especially at the beginning of a ride when getting lost is more likely. Also  know how to preserve battery life with your GPS or use with dynamo hub. Honestly I rode with a Schmidt Son and because the full spectrum of the light only works at higher speed and It is limited on climbs in the deep wilderness I might rethink that aspect of my set up.

If you can ride 100 miles a day you can travel lighter in regards to fuel and water. After 3 plus days you will get a good feel for what you need. My strategy was for every 100 miles, 3 meals of 350-700 calories (one for morning meal if stopping short) and one snack of 150 calories for every 10 miles. Even in NM I never carried more than 3L of water but that is highly individual and needs to be practiced. Also much easier to find water in NM than I had read and studied.

Bike: Mosaic MT 1 Titanium, Rohloff/Gates belt drive, Avid Spyre Mechanical Disc brakes, Steel Salsa fork (thru axle), Stans Flow in front, Arch in back. Maxxis Ikon 3.5 in front, Specialized Fast Trak 2.1 in back. Sella Anatomica saddle (no chamois=no saddle sores/must be practiced). Good luck to all the riders in 2016!

[kiwidave]

Super info Askjeff.

Can you expand a little more on the water in NM? Grants / Pie Town / Church / Beaverhead / Lake Roberts off route / Silver City (Pinos Altos) ... ?

[nwagers]

Does anyone know of a write up comparing the wattage drag of a hub dynamo vs the weight of just carrying batteries? I've been digging around a little and dynamo hubs seem to put out around 3W. Add in the drag and and electrical losses and we're talking close to 5W. This is pretty much continuous since at such low power you'll probably charge electronics all day and at night would be running a dynamo light.

For carrying batteries the weight would also be constant. It would come down to how many lbs can you carry for 5W. I played around with some numbers on here: http://bikecalculator.com/examples.html and I think it's close to 1 lbs/W. It depends on your speed, grade and total weight. I went with what I thought were realistic numbers for me, which is surely on the slower and heavier side. I also only looked at positive grades, 5-8%, which from the elevation/grade profiles posted here should be higher than typical (not worst case, but accounting for most of the harder stuff). Riding it on flat ground would have even less of an impact and downhill should even recoup a good fraction of the energy.

Being conservative, couldn't you carry 5 - 10,000 mAh and still come out ahead? I found Aukey 10,000 mAh fast charging battery packs for 8.8 oz. And 50,000 mAh is a lot! The lot of them would only cost $125, meaning cheaper than a dynamo setup. What am I missing here? When does a hub dynamo actually make sense?

[Rob Colliver]

I read somewhere that a dynamo hub drag is the equivilent of one rich tea biscuit per hour extra food required.

I can eat that biscuit.

[Flinch]

Normal drag from your front hub (non dyno) is around 0.2 watts. Drag from the dynohub when powering devices varies with speed. The most perceived drag is from low to moderate speeds. When you are going fast the amount of drag from the hub as compared to the drag from rolling resistance, wind, mechanical etc. is relatively small, thus you won't notice it as much. Table please:
Speed (mph)   Hub Drag   Speed Loss
6                    3.3 w   1 mph
12                    5.3 w   .67 mph
18                    6.7 w   .4 mph

For comparison, you generate 0.1 hp, or 74 watts, riding your bike on the level at 10 mph. So 7 watts of drag is about 1/10 of the effort. Assuming that 1/3 of the TD route is uphill, and 1/3 is on the flats, you will have >70% of the riding time (not distance) experiencing drag. By my calcs that adds a few hours to riding time. Even tho you adapt to the drag, it still exists. Kinda like those extra pounds I need to lose. The oft quoted 'biscuit per mile' drag does not take into account that the human body is 24% efficient at converting consumed calories to power, so multiply the biscuits by 4 . Yum!

Having said that, I've just built a wheel with a Shimano hub, and am building the lighting control circuit as we speak. It will run lights, charge a standby light battery pack, and two Nicads for my Garmin. Last year I carried batteries, and the weight is not the only issue - handling three sizes, and mixing up used ones and fresh when you are tired (who did that!??), sigh. But, either way works.

More info: http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/schmidt.asp  and http://www.bikequarterly.com/VBQgenerator.pdf

Good luck!
Glen

[Christopher R. Bennett]

Being conservative, couldn't you carry 5 - 10,000 mAh and still come out ahead? I found Aukey 10,000 mAh fast charging battery packs for 8.8 oz. And 50,000 mAh is a lot! The lot of them would only cost $125, meaning cheaper than a dynamo setup. What am I missing here? When does a hub dynamo actually make sense?

I think the main advantages of a dynamo are you are completely independent of having to manage batteries (Ollie Whalley ran out of them on the sprint to the finish in 2011 and had to bivvy for part of the night!) and can have much higher capacity lights and other power hungry devices than otherwise.  As 'Flinch' notes, the drag is negligible. If you do a lot of night riding (which I do) then a dynamo is the best way to go.

I've actually been 'hacking' all my battery devices to allow them to run off the dynamo. For example, I recently ran my SPOT 2 GPS continuously for 60 hours in a test using 4 x eneloop batteries in the Goal Zero Guide 10 Plus. I think the Guide 10 gives you the best of both worlds: recharges (slowly) from your dynamo, can use off the shelf batteries if you can't recharge, and weighs 200 grams with batteries.

If you check out www.tri-duffer.com in a week or so there should be a long post on my 'journey' with dynamos that I've been working on.

[dream4est]

Can you expand a little more on the water in NM? Grants / Pie Town / Church / Beaverhead / Lake Roberts off route / Silver City (Pinos Altos) ... ?

Between Grants and Pie Town u have the ranger station at mile 15.2 of the alternate and old cabin on right at mile 190.1 on main route (both on map 5).

Between Beaver head and Pinos Altos u have the creek dam deal at Black canyon campgrounds at mile 124.6. And u have the creek crossings at 8.9 and 9.2 of the cdt alternate (map 6).

[Unai]

I´ve got a doubt about the dragging of the hub dynamo.
Does the dragging exist when the electronic circuit is open, when you are not using the light or charging any device?

[Dinodinodino]

I think the main advantages of a dynamo are you are completely independent of having to manage batteries (Ollie Whalley ran out of them on the sprint to the finish in 2011 and had to bivvy for part of the night!) and can have much higher capacity lights and other power hungry devices than otherwise.  As 'Flinch' notes, the drag is negligible. If you do a lot of night riding (which I do) then a dynamo is the best way to go.

I've actually been 'hacking' all my battery devices to allow them to run off the dynamo. For example, I recently ran my SPOT 2 GPS continuously for 60 hours in a test using 4 x eneloop batteries in the Goal Zero Guide 10 Plus. I think the Guide 10 gives you the best of both worlds: recharges (slowly) from your dynamo, can use off the shelf batteries if you can't recharge, and weighs 200 grams with batteries.

If you check out www.tri-duffer.com in a week or so there should be a long post on my 'journey' with dynamos that I've been working on.

Does the Goal Zero Guide 10 Plus charge devices with regular AA batteries?  I am not using a dynamo and have my phone to charge.  All other devices I am bringing are powered by AAs or AAAs.

[nwagers]

I know everyone says the drag is minimal, but I guess my assertion is that the weight of battery packs is just as minimal and cheaper. My plan is to avoid all AA and AAA devices where possible and use USB rechargeable devices. The lumen ratings of USB lights seem to be plenty comparable to hub lights and don't turn off when you stop pedalling. I suppose runtime could be an issue if you're doing really significant night time riding, but in Banff on the 10th Civil Twilight hours are 4:40 AM to 10:45 PM. We'll lose about 2 hours by halfway and maybe another 45 minutes by the end, but that's still lots of daylight. I don't see myself doing more than a couple hours of nighttime riding.

Also, I'm not sure I see a reason to modify a SPOT to be rechargeable. For one, rechargeables run at a lower voltage and SPOT clearly says they must be lithium. Rechargeables are way heavier and there a good chance that one fresh set will last the whole trip anyway. My gen3 with tracking on went through about a set per month over the course of 6 months on the AT. Maybe it's different with the gen2 though

[Christopher R. Bennett]

Does the Goal Zero Guide 10 Plus charge devices with regular AA batteries?  I am not using a dynamo and have my phone to charge.  All other devices I am bringing are powered by AAs or AAAs.

Yes, it works with AA and AAA (but you need to get a AAA adapter). You should get the high capacity rechargeables: http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-BK-3HCCA4BA-Eneloop-Pre-Charged-Rechargeable/dp/B00JHKSL28/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1454343370&sr=1-2&keywords=Eneloop+Pro+AA]

In my view, if you are not planning on using a dynamo light you are better off with something like this. Don't get hung up on the drag - it is just because it is a simpler setup with less to go wrong.

The SPOT modification allows me to run it without batteries - it will also work for shorter periods with rechargeables. Not always convenient to rely on the Lithium batteries so this is a good backup.

[phil_rad]

I've got a doubt about the dragging of the hub dynamo.
Does the dragging exist when the electronic circuit is open, when you are not using the light or charging any device?

I too wondered about the drag created by a dyno hub, so I tried it out on my commute to and from work. Its about 30 miles and flat except for a couple of little blips. My times with a dyno hub and without were the same. No difference. I think most of the drag is in everyones head, if you think there is drag in the hub and that its slowing you down then it probably is. Just go with what you know and trust, that goes for every piece of kit you bring on the TDR. Bring what know, what you like and what works for you. Oh, one more thing, my drill sergeant used to tell us in basic training; "Its mind over matter men, mind over matter. I don't mind and you don't matter!" :-)

[Flinch]

I´ve got a doubt about the dragging of the hub dynamo.
Does the dragging exist when the electronic circuit is open, when you are not using the light or charging any device?

The drag when the dyno is not powering anything is about 1 watt = nothing.

[Unai]

The drag when the dyno is not powering anything is about 1 watt = nothing.

Thank you very much!

[Christopher R. Bennett]

The drag when the dyno is not powering anything is about 1 watt = nothing.

Have to agree. I've just finished my 'brain dump' on 5 years of experience with dynamos/lights/usb etc. In this I have a chart from Ed Pickup showing drag with/without the dynamo.

https://triduffer.wordpress.com/2016/02/02/powering-your-gadgets-for-endurance-races/

[Unai]

Thank you Christopher for the amount of information. This forum is fantastic!!