2017 AZTR300/750 Race Discussion Thread

[bmattingly]

Swami,

The Southbound route was excellent.  I recommend it.  It may be safer to do it while the others are riding because more people are out there if something severe happened.  I think doing it while others are on route increased many folks drive to complete.  Other riders can be psyched and it helps with your own psyche.  I liked getting the canyon over with quickly.  Its very cold on the rim regardless of snow conditions.  i was psyched to drop off the rim into the desert for warmer sleeping.  Going up the backside of Mt. Lemmon is a big day.  A big challenge for me was staying positive because I started when a long term relationship I was in was deteriorating.  I live in Flagstaff and had done the 300 before so I'm familiar with the route and the weather.  My time was not fast.  I went at my pace and stayed out a bit longer because of my ride logistics.  Happy for any ride on the Mexican border! This year it looked like wind was giving some riders a hard time.  Go for it.  Just keep moving forward and don't stop unless you have too.  The solitude, adventure, and endurance are all pretty awesome.  Good luck

[ScottM]

Good advice, Brad.

Addy - there's usually a cool window or two (of ~3 days if you're lucky) in May.  But there's no way you could predict it -- you kind of need to be local, or around, in order to snag it.

[Adam Alphabet]

Thanks Scott. Kind of thought so. Would be sweet to hit that window for one last late season 300. Enjoy it while you got it guys!

[LandSharkBrian]

If I do attempt again in 2018 I'm thinking I'll go N to S too, weather dependent of course. .  Could be quite a little party at state line.

[hanyo66]

If I do attempt again in 2018 I'm thinking I'll go N to S too, weather dependent of course. .  Could be quite a little party at state line.

would be 5+ of us, probably the most to ever start N to S hahaha

[hanyo66]

AZT open where the Sawmill fire was at, text from the AZT newsletter:

"Last week, the Coronado National Forest lifted the temporary closure order for the forest roads and trails impacted by the Sawmill Fire, including nearly 15 miles of the Arizona National Scenic Trail (Passages 5 and 6) between Gardner Canyon Road and Rosemont Junction. Although the AZT is open again, trail users should use extreme caution in the area and be aware of burned trees that could topple, smoldering logs, missing signs, and other hazards that result from wildfires.
 
The medium-intensity burn impacted approximately 8.5 miles of the AZT, mostly between the Morning Star Mine (trail mile 79.1) near Forest Road 165 and Forest Road 4064 (trail mile 88.4). A recent trail assessment revealed that grasses are already rebounding and many of the mature oak and mesquite trees survived the blaze. The incident will benefit the landscape in the long-term, but visitors should be prepared for a charred landscape over the next six months.
 
The area hardest hit by the Sawmill Fire is the Las Cienegas National Conservation Area to the east of Highway 83. It remains closed to the public until it has been determined to be safe by the Bureau of Land Management.
 
ATA trail stewards are currently replacing carsonite signs melted by the fire and clearing debris from the tread. The ATA and Coronado National Forest will work together to stabilize the trail and nearby hillsides to protect the AZT from erosion that will undoubtedly happen this summer.
 
The Sawmill Fire was the unfortunate result of recreational target shooting and explosive targets in dry, windy conditions. A total of 46,991 acres were burned in the incident, which cost over $5 million to fight."

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Then with an update on the Mulberry fire:

"On Saturday, May 6, at approximately 2 p.m. the Mulberry Fire started 8 miles southeast of Vail. Originally reported as burning on the Arizona Trail near Sahuarita Road and Highway 83, the fire was actually located southeast of this location. To date, the grassland fire has burned 1,755 acres and is 80% contained.
 
The Arizona Trail was not impacted by this fire but is an important reminder to use extreme caution with flammables during this high-risk fire season"

[schillingsworth]

Rut-roh, AD is heading back towards Tucson on Redington Rd....

[Adam Alphabet]

Rut-roh, AD is heading back towards Tucson on Redington Rd....

Just saw that and was going to post... hope he's ok.

[aarond]

Oops, im out.  Should have known better, but I was only kinda sorta ready.  Despite cool temps I was moving slow.  No real excuse other than poor prep.  I probably could have built some good character and stumbled and fumbled my way to the finish, but there was no fire in the belly.  Instead of the grand adventure I was hoping for, I was deeply dreading each part, and each section took so long  felt like purgatory.  Very happy to drop, but also ready to be truly ready next time.

[swami29]

Thanks Brad just reading and talking about it gets the juices flowing... I was based out of Flag when I muddled thru the 300 in 6 days then got a taste of the full enchilada with the 750  setting an all time slowest record on singlespeed!! Nevertheless April or May I hope to rub elbows with North to south or visa versa riders👳🏼‍♀️. I think the plan to get thru the canyon early has tremendous  potential ( easy to say sitting on the couch) I can defenitly envision party at Stateline in 2018 and  meeting some like minded bike nerds. After that it really just a long kick ass camping trip! I don't want to get overly sentimental here but I truley appreciate the effort that Scott has put into an idea that is way bigger than any of us AZT riders . .. going out doing your best. , accepting the many pitfalls and disappointments then waking up with a stiff leg or aching shoulder and throwing a leg over the bar and getting on with it . It's what we do.

[dsrt taco]

I'm still a little baffled when people show up for an event fully intending to 1) not follow the route.  2) not follow the rules or 3) not reach the finish. 

I had planned to do the full 300 this year but stuff came up at work which would not allow me the time off to finish the race (I somehow doubt that I could have finished by Sunday night), so at that point for me rules were out the window and it was a just a long ride with friends.

I think that this attitude holds true for many others who do the AZT'R' at a touring pace. For them it is more about completing a long-ass ride and riding & camping with their friends for a week rather than sticking to the rules laid out for the people taking it seriously and treating it as an actual race. Unless there is a penalty of losing an entry fee, or not being able to participate in future events I doubt that this attitude will change for that crowd - and I certainly hope that it does not, as that is what makes these events so awesome!

[AZTtripper]

Good advice, Brad.

Addy - there's usually a cool window or two (of ~3 days if you're lucky) in May.  But there's no way you could predict it -- you kind of need to be local, or around, in order to snag it.

There's just no way I could have envisioned cool weather this late. But it's over now and the 100's are coming.

[Adam Alphabet]

There's just no way I could have envisioned cool weather this late. But it's over now and the 100's are coming.

Seems as though the weather has been strange everywhere. I saw instagram posts with friends in Colorado skiing. This holiday weekend is the first one in 18 years we've had sun up here. It's usually pouring rain for the official opening of camping season.. go figure.

[ScottM]

I had planned to do the full 300 this year but stuff came up at work which would not allow me the time off to finish the race (I somehow doubt that I could have finished by Sunday night), so at that point for me rules were out the window and it was a just a long ride with friends.

I think that this attitude holds true for many others who do the AZT'R' at a touring pace. For them it is more about completing a long-ass ride and riding & camping with their friends for a week rather than sticking to the rules laid out for the people taking it seriously and treating it as an actual race. Unless there is a penalty of losing an entry fee, or not being able to participate in future events I doubt that this attitude will change for that crowd - and I certainly hope that it does not, as that is what makes these events so awesome!

Fair enough, I appreciate the perspective.  I certainly support the idea of a long ride with friends. The issue I have is that as the 'event' grows and reaches the 75 person limit, I tend to lean towards giving those 75 spots to people intending to do the race as laid out, since a big ride with friends can be done any other day without impacting other people. It's an unfortunate consequence of the growth of the event.

[hanyo66]

Fair enough, I appreciate the perspective.  I certainly support the idea of a long ride with friends. The issue I have is that as the 'event' grows and reaches the 75 person limit, I tend to lean towards giving those 75 spots to people intending to do the race as laid out, since a big ride with friends can be done any other day without impacting other people. It's an unfortunate consequence of the growth of the event.

For what it's worth, we'll be going off the same time as the race next year from Stateline, but we can be excluded from the race. I don't want to suck up any entries or resources! If you need us to go off sooner/later than the race, just let me know and I can plan around it.

[LandSharkBrian]

For what it's worth, we'll be going off the same time as the race next year from Stateline, but we can be excluded from the race. I don't want to suck up any entries or resources! If you need us to go off sooner/later than the race, just let me know and I can plan around it.

Speaking of which, when is the grand depart scheduled for in 2018?  I see the full moon is 31 March.  Did the Thursday start idea gain traction for next year?

[ScottM]

For what it's worth, we'll be going off the same time as the race next year from Stateline, but we can be excluded from the race. I don't want to suck up any entries or resources! If you need us to go off sooner/later than the race, just let me know and I can plan around it.

The real concern is the congregation of people at Parker Lake and at the Mexican Border. That's where we may have issues with the 75 person limit.  So I do ask that people that don't intend to do the race as laid out choose to start at a different day.  Since you're going southbound (right?) that is fine.

The other impacts to caches, other trail users, trail magic, other spectators, etc are more of a concern on the 300 portion, so once again starting from the Stateline CG is fine.

Speaking of which, when is the grand depart scheduled for in 2018?  I see the full moon is 31 March.  Did the Thursday start idea gain traction for next year?

I do think it'll start Thursday, perhaps Weds.  That moon timing is a little problematic for trying to keep it in the middle of April.  Waxing moon would put it more like April 19th, with only those in the 750 actually getting a full moon. 

March 29 would be the other idea, somewhat unprecedented, but also Easter weekend and sweet timing with the full moon. Heat was the biggest cause of the scratch rate this year even on the 7th, which suggests we move earlier.  We're about due for another snow year!

Thoughts?

[mvmorten]

I vote for earlier.

In fact, if I take another crack at the 300, I'll may ITT as early as possible and start on a Monday.

[hanyo66]

The real concern is the congregation of people at Parker Lake and at the Mexican Border. That's where we may have issues with the 75 person limit.  So I do ask that people that don't intend to do the race as laid out choose to start at a different day.  Since you're going southbound (right?) that is fine.

The other impacts to caches, other trail users, trail magic, other spectators, etc are more of a concern on the 300 portion, so once again starting from the Stateline CG is fine.

Yep, we are touring N > S so you're right, we should be fine. We'll deff be going off trail more than the racers and stopping at towns more often, so I doubt we'll hardly impact caches all that much. If anything changes or you need anything from me, just holler!

[phatmike]

...March 29 would be the other idea, somewhat unprecedented, but also Easter weekend and sweet timing with the full moon. Heat was the biggest cause of the scratch rate this year even on the 7th, which suggests we move earlier.  We're about due for another snow year!

Thoughts?

I know you know this Scott, but picking a window based on hopeful weather purposes just seems like a complete waste of time IMO. In fact I believe an earlier start this year would have given the field even hotter temps iirc. I know there was an early ITT that dealt with temps approaching triple digits (if not actually reaching them), but I can't remember if that was a week prior or two weeks. Either way, it seems like you are either gonna get snow, or get crushed by heat. That's just spring in AZ.

I think the earlier start day is for sure a good idea, especially for us slower riders. I think it makes it a bit easier to get time off from work. For us in the 4 day range, it gives us the ability to finish on the weekend instead of monday or tuesday which might make time off requests easier for some folks who might have problems taking chunks of time off on two consecutive work weeks.