2018 AZTR300/750 Planning Thread

[hanyo66]

take to the road to Jacob Lake once you are out of the Park

Not a bad idea. From the North Kaibab Trailhead to the "true" official Grand Canyon National Park border at the ranger station, it's about 9.7 miles (900 ft. elevation gain) on the AZT then you could come back onto the road.

[ScottM]

Does anyone have rough time comparisons for each option? NR to Jacob Lake or there abouts on trail vs. road.

The trail doesn't look too hard on paper, but it is significantly slower and harder.  There will surely be trees down with no one having been out on it, too.

I don't have a time estimate, but it's at least 6-8 hours longer, I'd say.  That means you have to slug more rations along with the bike when crossing the canyon, so it does add to the overall difficultly.

That said, it is the AZT.  And if not for snow, the race would surely use it every year.

BTW, Jacob Lake is still an easy resupply.  ~2.5 miles off route, IIRC, from the trail.

take to the road to Jacob Lake once you are out of the Park

That is a fair point.  I do not know what the USFS thinks about the supposed "closure" and have not asked so as not to raise the issue and get on anyone's radar.  We did have word from an engineer at ADOT that they consider it open to bikes.  It is only the Park Service that is signing it and making it an issue.

[schillingsworth]

Welcome back Scott! Thanks for the detailed response.

So by quick estimates it would trade roughly 50 miles of road for 50 miles of trail, you lose Jacob Lake re-up but keep the powers that be, the people who prefer bikes not ride that road before May 15th, happy.

Does anyone have rough time comparisons for each option? NR to Jacob Lake or there abouts on trail vs. road.

Adam,
It's about 40 miles of road to 50 miles of trail. The road can be done <4 hrs or so as there are only a couple of climbs, most of it rides fairly fast. The AZT has some HAB, shocking isn't it?, took me about 10 hrs on a social bikepack FWIW. There's a Strava segment for that entire stretch: AZT: N. Kaibab TH to US89A (just created it) so it should get populated with some useful data.

Jacob Lake is barely 1 mile off route. If going there for re-supply from the AZT I'd suggest bailing off the trail at Big Ridge Tank, left on FR258, left on FR634, then bear right continuing on FR634 to AZ67. This dumps you out about 1/4 mile south of Jacob Lake. On your way back to the trail, when you get on FR634, look for the Ceballos Trail #109 (on Trailforks). It's a fun bit of singletrack that rolls downhill paralleling FR634. Just a fun way to get back to the AZT. By doing this route, you'll avoid a mostly uphill, no shoulder ride on 89A to Jacob Lake.

[ScottM]

As of now the north rim appears to be pretty void of snow.  Only the peaks and Sunrise seem to have a tiny faded pixel or two on this snow depth map.

It isn't April yet, but it may be this is the year to ride the full trail.  Barring any dumping storms, 750ers should plan (the race route would be) to ride the AZT through the park, and probably to 89A, too.  That's the best decision for the future of the race, in my opinion.  It would help keep the race off the Park Service's radar as much as possible.  (Not that we are completely off it, certain people do know of the race and some are even supportive).

[Ron Thomson]

Barring any dumping storms, 750ers should plan (the race route would be) to ride the AZT through the park, and probably to 89A, too. 

Sweet! Looking forward to returning to this section. The one overwhelming memory of the trail was the sheer amount of upper body work to lift the loaded bike over so many huge deadfalls. That, and camping at the high point on what was a very cold night.

[flyboy]

Sweet! Looking forward to returning to this section. The one overwhelming memory of the trail was the sheer amount of upper body work to lift the loaded bike over so many huge deadfalls. That, and camping at the high point on what was a very cold night.

Woo Hoo! What a year to be in on the race with the full meal deal!!*

*Note: Enthusiasm may wane rapidly as the race progresses

[aarond]

Would be nice to ride st through the nicenter looking woods on the n rim, and the next few weeks are forecast warm and dry, but it won't be that surprising if some serious snow falls in march.
Most of you have probably seen this Aaron Johnson video from the 2014 run, but if not...https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=Klt6Wt3wEJvijwSA3KLYBQ&q=aaron+johnson+aztr+750&oq=aaron+johnson+aztr+750&gs_l=mobile-gws-hp.3..33i160k1.1986.13227.0.13772.24.23.1.5.5.0.643.9529.2-2j5j11j4.22.0....0...1c.1j4.64.mobile-gws-hp..1.22.7112.3..0j35i39k1j0i131i67k1j0i67k1j0i131k1j0i20i264k1j0i20i263k1j0i22i30k1.589.-x778eHIvAo#scso=uid_OVt6Wv-xLMjOjwTwn4n4DQ_1:0

[phatmike]

I rode flats too for the 750 and am now exclusively on them. AZT is one of my local shreds, Salomon X-Ultra hiking shoes work for me. I used those shoes for the 300 last year, Stagecoach400, CTR and all my local rides. Still rocking the same pair with not a ton of wear showing.

I used these shoes for my 300 voyage last year per the recommendation from schillingsworth. I highly recommend them as well. I was using five tens prior, and did many big rides with them. They are fine for hiking, they were just too bulky for me and I wanted to try something different.

The Salomon's are very durable. They got me through the 300 plus a ton of hiking/biking miles since. They are my main shoe for both activities. There is some wear, but plenty of life left. The five tens would have been toast.

[Adam Alphabet]

Adam,
It's about 40 miles of road to 50 miles of trail. The road can be done <4 hrs or so as there are only a couple of climbs, most of it rides fairly fast. The AZT has some HAB, shocking isn't it?, took me about 10 hrs on a social bikepack FWIW. There's a Strava segment for that entire stretch: AZT: N. Kaibab TH to US89A (just created it) so it should get populated with some useful data.

Jacob Lake is barely 1 mile off route. If going there for re-supply from the AZT I'd suggest bailing off the trail at Big Ridge Tank, left on FR258, left on FR634, then bear right continuing on FR634 to AZ67. This dumps you out about 1/4 mile south of Jacob Lake. On your way back to the trail, when you get on FR634, look for the Ceballos Trail #109 (on Trailforks). It's a fun bit of singletrack that rolls downhill paralleling FR634. Just a fun way to get back to the AZT. By doing this route, you'll avoid a mostly uphill, no shoulder ride on 89A to Jacob Lake.

Thanks for that John. If anyone was to have the beta on the differences it was you, appreciate it. Might be time again to read over your full pull from 2016!

As of now the north rim appears to be pretty void of snow.  Only the peaks and Sunrise seem to have a tiny faded pixel or two on this snow depth map.

It isn't April yet, but it may be this is the year to ride the full trail.  Barring any dumping storms, 750ers should plan (the race route would be) to ride the AZT through the park, and probably to 89A, too.  That's the best decision for the future of the race, in my opinion.  It would help keep the race off the Park Service's radar as much as possible.  (Not that we are completely off it, certain people do know of the race and some are even supportive).

Thanks for the clarification Scott. Is this the generally accepted, 'official' route of the bike race up to this point? Snow years, which seem to be most years the road detours have been allowed correct?

Sweet! Looking forward to returning to this section. The one overwhelming memory of the trail was the sheer amount of upper body work to lift the loaded bike over so many huge deadfalls. That, and camping at the high point on what was a very cold night.

The deadfall that late in the game sounds... 'fun' haha

[ScottM]

Thanks for the clarification Scott. Is this the generally accepted, 'official' route of the bike race up to this point? Snow years, which seem to be most years the road detours have been allowed correct?

AZ67 has been an allowed snow detour every year the 750 has taken place thus far.  There was one year when Ron Thomson, Bill (and maybe someone else?) did take the trail for super bonus points.  In name, the AZT has always been intended route, and always acceptable (as Ron et al did).  That year the snow detour was in place mostly for consistency with other years, even though the trail was free enough of snow.  It's just rare.

The other detours (around Aspen Corner, and near Mormon Lake, even by Happy Jack the first year) are generally not used.  I think only 2010 used all three of them.

Keeping the race alive is more important than consistency, in my view, so this year the route will follow the trail if at all possible.

[taprider]

WOW adding all the trail after the North Rim will be a challenge even for Rhino's Granny!

[elfreako]

Just my two cents. Last year before I did the 750 both the law enforcement ranger I encountered down at the bottom of the GC and a park ranger we encountered on the way down South Kaibab were both supportive of the race and were actually happy to see Dan and I practicing the hike into the canyon with our bikes. 100% supportive.

I saw one ranger on the way out of the park on the North Rim and he just waved as I pedaled onward.

But with the lack of snow the proper AZT would be a great option and I know there were many trees cleared last year on the North Rim by the ATA and park service. About 100 or so from what I heard. So, hopefully the downed trees wont be that great of a number. I actually heard before the trees were cut out that even the thru hikers were bouncing back to the road instead of clambering over all of downed trees.

On another note I have an Osprey Stratos 36 pack I used for the 750 I will sell if anybody needs one for the canyon. Orange in color and a size small/medium. Used twice: once for a trial run in the GC and once in the actual race.

[LandSharkBrian]

Hey all, the new kid on the block back in 2017 FINALLY finished his trip report.  It's long as hell, has lots of pictures, and can be found here:

https://bdbsoutdooradventures.wordpress.com/2018/02/12/my-2017-arizona-trail-race/

Maybe it'll help get some of you lucky saps doing it in 2018, more stoked up.  Yeah, yeah, that's the ticket:  I held off finishing my trip report so it'd be ready just before this year's event.

I really hope is that Rhino's grandma doesn't read it, track me down, and throat punch me in disgust.

[hanyo66]

Hey all, the new kid on the block back in 2017 FINALLY finished his trip report.  It's long as hell, has lots of pictures, and can be found here:

https://bdbsoutdooradventures.wordpress.com/2018/02/12/my-2017-arizona-trail-race/

Maybe it'll help get some of you lucky saps doing it in 2018, more stoked up.  Yeah, yeah, that's the ticket:  I held off finishing my trip report so it'd be ready just before this year's event.

I really hope is that Rhino's grandma doesn't read it, track me down, and throat punch me in disgust.

Just read that bad boy in one sitting straight through, incredible detail, not sure how you remembered everything so vividly. Excellent write up!

[gesose]

Can we talk tires for a hot minute?  I've been rocking Maxxis Ardents (29x2.4) as of late, and am a fan.  Only one puncture, they hook up good, perform pretty well in the soggy PNW winter and were great in the super loose summer gravel.  However, I need new tires for this year's full fun and am curious if some vets and/or locals want to steer me away from the Ardent and to something else.  I've been happy with Maxxis in general - was sponsored by them a long time ago when I raced collegiate.  Now I rock them on almost everything I ride, MTB, gravel, commuter.  I won't be in the front pack, so super fast/light isn't my jam.  I just want a great performer for the Arizona conditions that I'm not familiar with riding.  Also, I'm riding rigid if that makes a difference in any comments.  Thanks!

[hanyo66]

Can we talk tires for a hot minute?  I've been rocking Maxxis Ardents (29x2.4) as of late, and am a fan.  Only one puncture, they hook up good, perform pretty well in the soggy PNW winter and were great in the super loose summer gravel.  However, I need new tires for this year's full fun and am curious if some vets and/or locals want to steer me away from the Ardent and to something else.  I've been happy with Maxxis in general - was sponsored by them a long time ago when I raced collegiate.  Now I rock them on almost everything I ride, MTB, gravel, commuter.  I won't be in the front pack, so super fast/light isn't my jam.  I just want a great performer for the Arizona conditions that I'm not familiar with riding.  Also, I'm riding rigid if that makes a difference in any comments.  Thanks!

Over the years I've seen a lot of people on here recommend Maxxis Ikon

[gesose]

Over the years I've seen a lot of people on here recommend Maxxis Ikon

I've seen the same recommendation quite a bit as well now that I think about it, and was actually just looking at it prior to my post.  Looks slightly less aggressive than the Ardent with a tighter block pattern = better for hardpack maybe?  Thanks for triggering that memory. 

[evdog]

But with the lack of snow the proper AZT would be a great option and I know there were many trees cleared last year on the North Rim by the ATA and park service. About 100 or so from what I heard.

I heard the same thing.  I bikepacked around the Kaibab Plateau on Memorial Day 2016 (TR: http://www.bikepacking.net/forum/bikepacking/tr-bikepacking-the-kaibab-plateau-(pic-heavy)) and can attest to the downed trees in the park.  I didn't count them but it was definitely a drag as many were at waist height.  I got the impression many had been there for years, so hopefully there won't be too many with recent work.  Once north of the park there were maybe 15-20 downed trees the rest of the way. 

Freako, I need to try out the pack I currently have, if it doesn't work I may be in contact for the stratos.

As to shoes, I use 5.10 impacts for all my riding.  They are ok for hiking but not great.  I'm debating whether to use them for 750 if I get the time off for it.  Otherwise I'd try something like what Schillingsworth used.  The 5.10 impacts are heavier than hiking shoes and stiffer sole.  I've hiked in them before and my feet hurt.  The canyon will be a long day or two.  I know a couple people have used them the last couple years and they seemed ok.  All you can do is buy a pair and take them hiking to see how they feel.  The main reason for using 5.10s is their excellent grip with flat pedals.  But the AZT isn't the normal techy riding you need that for. I think something more comfortable with less grip would work fine. 

[havefungi]

Can we talk tires for a hot minute?  I've been rocking Maxxis Ardents (29x2.4) as of late, and am a fan.  Only one puncture, they hook up good, perform pretty well in the soggy PNW winter and were great in the super loose summer gravel.  However, I need new tires for this year's full fun and am curious if some vets and/or locals want to steer me away from the Ardent and to something else.  I've been happy with Maxxis in general - was sponsored by them a long time ago when I raced collegiate.  Now I rock them on almost everything I ride, MTB, gravel, commuter.  I won't be in the front pack, so super fast/light isn't my jam.  I just want a great performer for the Arizona conditions that I'm not familiar with riding.  Also, I'm riding rigid if that makes a difference in any comments.  Thanks!

I haven't used Maxxis, but have been very happy with Bontrager Team issue tires. Zero sidewall issues, solid tread, fairly long-lasting.

[mvmorten]

Ikons and Ardents are both popular choices.

I ran an Ardent EXO/TR 29 x 2.25 up front and an Ikon EXO/TR/3C 29 x 2.2 in the rear. Both tubeless. That's was big as I could go on the bike without rubbing, otherwise I probably would go with an Ardent 2.4 for both front and rear.