2018 AZTR300/750 Planning Thread

[falkenjaeger]

Hi there, I am in for the long haul and would like to arrange my logistics over Xmas time. My understanding is that there are several reasonable options to get to the start. My question is how do 750 riders get away from the AZ/UT border. Coming from Germany, I don’t have relatives or friends (do I?) near by to pick me up. My plan so far is to ride to the nearest B&B place (Paria Outpost) at the highway 89 and onwards to Page. However, I have to get back to either Tucson or Phoenix. Unfortunately there seem to be no flights from Page (and no bike shop to grab a bike box) and not even a rental car station. Any ideas would be much appreciated. Many thanks!

[mikepro]

Hi there, I am in for the long haul and would like to arrange my logistics over Xmas time. My understanding is that there are several reasonable options to get to the start. My question is how do 750 riders get away from the AZ/UT border. Coming from Germany, I don’t have relatives or friends (do I?) near by to pick me up. My plan so far is to ride to the nearest B&B place (Paria Outpost) at the highway 89 and onwards to Page. However, I have to get back to either Tucson or Phoenix. Unfortunately there seem to be no flights from Page (and no bike shop to grab a bike box) and not even a rental car station. Any ideas would be much appreciated. Many thanks!

I always like to chime in on "exit logistics" to help with what I've learned from two previous 750 finishes:
 - go back through previous year discussion threads on this forum for the large amount of detailed information that is just too large to recreate;
http://www.bikepacking.net/forum/ultra-racing/2017-aztr300750-race-discussion-thread/
http://www.bikepacking.net/forum/ultra-racing/azt-750300-2017-planning-thread/
http://www.bikepacking.net/forum/ultra-racing/2016-aztr300750-race-discussion-thread/
http://www.bikepacking.net/forum/ultra-racing/arizona-trail-race-aztr-planning-thread/

 - the Paria Outpost seems like a fun option - I have no idea if they are open year-round, and looks like a great place to try and catch a ride
 - in general there are 2 main ways to go if self-propelled:
     a.) West to Kanab, in order to get to St George, UT for a shuttle to Las Vegas airport (my way out in 2014)
     b.) East to Page, AZ in order to get to Flagstaff, AZ airport.  Typically, flights are much more expensive out of Flagstaff, but that's the way I recall Arno Minner from Germany went in 2014 (I think he had friends in Flag)
 - if trying to catch a spontaneous ride from near the AZTR750 finish, pedal 1/4 mile North to the trailhead for The Wave and other trails and make a new friend - this is a very popular trailhead every day of the year
 - get lucky and make friends with one of your nearest AZTR750 competitors as you hike across the Grand Canyon, and catch a ride with them
 - stay connected to this forum for racers that pre-coordinate either a shared ride from the finish, or a dropped car - I was very happy to have a prearranged welcome committee and ride in 2016

[aarond]

Hi there, I am in for the long haul and would like to arrange my logistics over Xmas time. My understanding is that there are several reasonable options to get to the start. My question is how do 750 riders get away from the AZ/UT border. Coming from Germany, I don’t have relatives or friends (do I?) near by to pick me up. My plan so far is to ride to the nearest B&B place (Paria Outpost) at the highway 89 and onwards to Page. However, I have to get back to either Tucson or Phoenix. Unfortunately there seem to be no flights from Page (and no bike shop to grab a bike box) and not even a rental car station. Any ideas would be much appreciated. Many thanks!

I have had very good luck hitchhiking with the bike.  I remove both tires and turn bike upside down, making gear look as compact as possible.  Then, stick out your thumb and look hopeful!  I have twice hitched to st. George from Jacob lake to rent a car.  The bike makes a great prop and I have never had to wait more than 5-10 minutes for a ride.
Also easily hitched from flag to state line campground.

[Dana Ernst]

Has there ever been any discussion of alternating directions of either the 300 or 750, like CTR does every other year?


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[AZTtripper]

So far only one person has completed the race in reverse. Obviously it can be done. Maybe Brad will comment, for one thing a south bound ride will have to climb Oracle ridge then descend on the road. In my mind the course makes more sense to climb up the road and descend the trail.

Also the final single track at the state line gives a spectacular finish, imo the final road miles to the border fence would be less rewarding.

I would say the same for the 300 the end at Picket Post has fun down hill. Arriving at Parker TH you have to slog up hill right to the end.

Of course it's all up to Scott in the end. And I will admit that I am predisposed to prefer the original direction. In the early days of bike packing the trail people would say why not North to South, thinking that would be the most down hill direction. Scott pointed out that the Border fence is actually higher then the Utah State line.

My. 02

Tim

[schillingsworth]

Two finishers, Tim. Holly Borowski did it in '16.

For a N-S 750 run you'd also be going against the weather if an April start is still used. Colder up north & warmer down south, but then again, it's April in AZ and anything can happen.

So, for the 300 you'd get to start off with the Gila100...then go up Oracle Ridge. No thanks. As Tim stated, a paved downhill on Lemmon isn't really a payoff in my book.

Highline isn't really any easier going southbound, still a bunch of climbing. That Pine to Payson section would suck too, you'd still have all that HAB garbage just south of Pine, then have a nice 14% paved climb out of the valley. All the easy miles on that section would be uphill. Bleh.

AZ188 would be a breeze though.

I guess the big argument for a N-S run is the Canyon. 1000' less climbing and getting it over with early on fresh legs. To me, that's all part of the challenge, doing it at the end. Still super tough, either way.

I have no desire to do either version southbound, but that's just me.

[taprider]

for cyclists, hiking a long way downhill with a pack is harder than hiking uphill

[Dana Ernst]

Having never done the full AZT in either direction, I trust your judgment on N to S vs S to N.


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[AZTtripper]

Up the pavement and down the trail or shuttle is how people mountain bike Mount Lemmon trails.

John is of course more up to date then I am.

[Meadowbolic]

Anyone have experience with Peakrider HAB gear?

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/peakrider/peakrider-the-first-bike-carrying-system

[Jeff Z]

Anyone have experience with Peakrider HAB gear?

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/peakrider/peakrider-the-first-bike-carrying-system

No way you could do the canyon with that wide a load.

[geekonabike]

Would a "plus" size tyre bike be an advantage from a ride quality point of view or would the tyres be too succeptible to punctures? I understand the trail is very hard on tyres. Do many AZ locals roll plus tyres in their general riding?

I ride 650b+ (on front at least) & forgo any suspension.

[geekonabike]

And I'll add...

Warning: This is a sweeping generalization of all bikepacking race routes, but most of the classic ultras seem to have this approximate mix of miles...

1/3 of the course is Awesome! These miles of the race/route are part of a lifetime experience not to miss. There will be miles of remote and stunningly beautiful terrain one would probably never get ride as a normal day ride, but the race course enables the experience. Cherish them. Many of those miles will forever be burned into your memory, in a good way. You would ride it again and again if you can or could.
1/3 is OK... Most of these miles are pleasant and you would repeat, but could also easily be swapped for some other ride/race/area. Some of these miles will be forever forgotten.
1/3 is... torture, hell, brutal [insert any other negative descriptor] or just plain ol' boring - These miles are the true test. They can be character building and/or soul destroying. They might just simply be irrational, like all the great ultras. All those awesome miles need something to contrast with and this is it. They will make you discover who you really are. They would/will never be voluntarily ridden again. However, they too will be permanently part of your memory.

-Yogi the Barry

Aren't you the one that said "half the game is 90% mental"   ; -)

[Gimmearaise]

Has there ever been any discussion of alternating directions of either the 300 or 750, like CTR does every other year?


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I was thinking about this for 2018 but the thing holding me back is the actually race. I would rather be racing with folks, it creates pressure and strategy, something I really enjoy about bikepack racing. I'll be doing the ITI 350 this year, which really put me out for a while last year. The challenge of healing in time is intriguing in-itself.

[elfreako]

Here is my thoughts on a couple of questions I have seen on the thread and other items of interest:

Tires:  I have had good luck using the Ikon's last year on my 750 race as well as using the Ikons in 2014 on the AZTR 300 and on the CTR in 2013. A solid tire with no issues. I had plenty of tread left on them after the 750. No sidewall cuts at all.

Bike: Kokopelli Ti 29er hardtail single speed with a 120mm fork in the front.. Used a 32x23 on the 750. 32x22 on the 300. Was very happy to have that spinning gear. The asphalt road to Jacob lake was a bit mind numbing but at that point who cares. I was almost finished.

Pack: I don't use a pack for bikepacking. I shipped an Osprey pack Stratos 36 (same one John S used) to the GC post office and my trail running shoes for the 15 hour journey all night through the ditch. I used it twice. Once on a practice HAB in the ditch and for the race. It's for sale if anybody is interested. It's orange.

I only filtered water once.

Make sure your brakes are well bled.

Shoes: Giro Terraduros. Only a slight delam at the top of the left toe and lasted the entire race. Warranty replacement afterwards.

Switch the start direction every other year like the CTR. Just my thoughts as I wont do it again. Ha!

I saw at least two caches for racers that had Gatorade and cokes. It was nice to see this trail magic. But I know trash can be a problem. It's a nice gesture.  I saw some card board signs too which was uplifting at times on Jacobs Cross trail or whatever its called.

Here is my blog write-up:
http://elfreakofromrico.blogspot.com/2017/04/aztr-750-2017.html

I don't think I will ever want to carry my bike across the canyon ever again. Once was enough.

[flyboy]

Aren't you the one that said "half the game is 90% mental"   ; -)

I think it went “this race is 90% mental. The other 10% is........mental”.

[flyboy]

I ride 650b+ (on front at least) & forgo any suspension.

Geek, I guess what I am really asking is would it just be plain stupid to add extra potential for technical issues or the extra drag of plus tyres? I think I know the answer to my own question but my problem is I sold my Ti Lynskey 29er a while back for a 27.5+ hardtail and I don’t “really” want to buy a new (or secondhand) bike just for this race. (Ok, I really do but I may be pushing the n+1 thing for the 12 month period! I like the look of the new Kona Unit as a cheap steel ride ) What would Rhino’s grandmother ride....?

[Adam Alphabet]

Geek, I guess what I am really asking is would it just be plain stupid to add extra potential for technical issues or the extra drag of plus tyres? I think I know the answer to my own question but my problem is I sold my Ti Lynskey 29er a while back for a 27.5+ hardtail and I don’t “really” want to buy a new (or secondhand) bike just for this race. (Ok, I really do but I may be pushing the n+1 thing for the 12 month period! I like the look of the new Kona Unit as a cheap steel ride ) What would Rhino’s grandmother ride....?

It's worth trying a pair of 29er rims and tires in your B+er. You may just need a wheel set.

[Dinodinodino]

I've used my trusty Kona Unit 29er on the TD, several of the Western Canada bikepacking races, and lots of training rides.  It's hard to tell how much mileage is on the thing.  I've replaced just about everything except the seat post and handlebars.  Solid little bike!

https://andersonsoutside.blogspot.ca/

[bmattingly]

Southbound is a cool adventure.  Wonderful to get through the Canyon quickly with fresher legs.  Very cold nights is a logistic to deal with.  I was loving it after dropping off the rim from Payson to Roosevelt Lake.  Warmer nights gave me much better sleep.  I Bivied in Oracle and left to climb Lemon at 4am I think.  Long haul up for sure, slow.  Quick on the way down.  Was highly exhausted making it to the now closed market after Sahuaro National Park.  Had a ton of fluid on me leaving Patagonia and found gushing water from a windmill about half way to the Border.  I got lucky on the heat because it was cooler than normal for a day between Picketpost and Oracle.

I haven't ride the 750 Northbound but on the 300 I have been pretty cooked when done at Picketpost. 

I will be watching you 750 riders so may the wind be at your back, may your tires remain hard, and may your psych be strong.