2018 AZTR300/750 Planning Thread

[krefs]

I see water sources listed in the AZT water table, but having ridden twice through this area, I have never seen (nor looked for) any of them. Has anyone used anything else than the Freeman cache in the past? What are "tanks"? Do you have to climb up and into them? Is green water bad for you?

Those AZT Association water tables are pure gold, especially the reliability ratings they include. Just because it's been dry doesn't mean that some sources will be unreliable.

"Tanks" can mean almost anything in the Southwest. They could be big earthen tanks that were excavated and fill with runoff, they could be metal or concrete tanks into which water is pumped by windmills or gravity-fed by pipes, they could be trick tanks that gather rainwater and store it in any number of ways, and you'll likely find other styles. But if they have water in them, that's all that matters. If that water is green or brown with algae or has a floating cow pie, it's still water. Treat it generously or filter it and you should be fine. But in some tanks, especially the earthen ones, algae and sediment can clog water filters very quickly, so I'd recommend a back-up water treatment option like Aqua Mira.

As mentioned above, do your homework when it comes to water. Never count on any of the water caches to be stocked - have a back-up plan for where to get water if a cache is unexpectedly empty, and plan to have enough water to execute that back-up plan should the need arise.

[carbonguy]

I loaded up on water at beehive well prior to freeman cache. Meaning I sat there and hydrated in addition to taking on 120oz of water. My intention was not to touch the cache at Freeman, but I did end up taking maybe 10-15oz anyway. Even without that, I would have made it to the tap at the ADOT yard in Kelvin. YMMV.

That said, I wouldn't count on anything outside of well established sources (stores/known spiggots) this year. It has been so freaking dry. It's more than possible to do the route without touching any of the caches. I recommend reading some ride reports (follow the hyperlinks on the AZTR results page). This will be valuable intel - and it's best to research this yourself IMO. If you're not sure, carry much more than you need. I had capacity for 240 oz but never ended up with more than 160. I'm a Phoenix native though and trained in the heat. I was commuting twice a week (including our brutal summer) with a commute round trip of 50-60 miles. Best of luck

You are the first one that I have heard to use the water there. Thanks for that report. I rode with a few fast guys last year, they all relied on the cache. AFAIK, even Mr. Schillingsworth uses the cache in all his reports (please prove me wrong!)  Here's a blog that describes the tank at Beehive well:
https://jansjaunts.wordpress.com/2015/03/09/arizona-trail-passage-14/

The ATA website says to get permission from the landowners before tresspassing and taking water. Is anyone doing that?

[carbonguy]

Those AZT Association water tables are pure gold, especially the reliability ratings they include. Just because it's been dry doesn't mean that some sources will be unreliable.

"Tanks" can mean almost anything in the Southwest. They could be big earthen tanks that were excavated and fill with runoff, they could be metal or concrete tanks into which water is pumped by windmills or gravity-fed by pipes, they could be trick tanks that gather rainwater and store it in any number of ways, and you'll likely find other styles. But if they have water in them, that's all that matters. If that water is green or brown with algae or has a floating cow pie, it's still water. Treat it generously or filter it and you should be fine. But in some tanks, especially the earthen ones, algae and sediment can clog water filters very quickly, so I'd recommend a back-up water treatment option like Aqua Mira.

As mentioned above, do your homework when it comes to water. Never count on any of the water caches to be stocked - have a back-up plan for where to get water if a cache is unexpectedly empty, and plan to have enough water to execute that back-up plan should the need arise.

Thanks KRefs for the description and experience with that water. I do carry mechanical and chemical treatment, but never tried them on sketchy looking water. I'll look into a pre-filter.

However:

I have not yet heard of anyone who did _not_ use the Freeman cache, wether they needed it or not. Especially in the northbound direction, the water sources seem sketchy past Freeman until reaching ADOT. And, many who fill up before Freeman dump the dirty water when the cache still has some.

The policy says
3. No caches

So, why is everyone, including Krefs and Scott (http://topofusion.com/diary/2012/04/23/azt-300-itt/), using the cache? Personally, I can't make sense out of the policy in this instance, given that these 2 segments are the driest. A public cache that is stocked for the ones who get there first, only? 70 people would mean 70 gallons, that's not there.

What if I go to the cache and clean it out, to level the playing field? How many people would drop out? Would there be any 2 day finishes? Just kidding, but you get my point I hope. To me it seems that this cache should be maintained by the racers for this non-event, instead of pretending that it's not being used. Or call yourself disqualified if you do use it, to maintain the safety net aspect of it?

My goal is simple: To spark a honest discussion, and importantly a clear resolution, about this critical water point.

[aarond]

Carbonguy, if you do some basic research you will find that there are a few water sources in the r ipsey area.  If you join the ata, they give some water sources.  A few years ago I was able to combine these with the fredgaudet water reliability rating and GPS coords, and put numerous likely water sources (cattle troughs) in my GPS.  If you look through my postings from 2013 or 2014 I gave the precise GPS location for a (then) reliable water source.  Also, the hikers are using an app called guthooks and it probably has lots of info.  Finally, if you can't figure it out, why not just start a day earlier?  You have 3 pieces of valuable info.  You know that beehive is reliable, you know that you are slow and you know freeman may be empty. Instead of injecting all this drama into the forum and demanding change, just bring extra carrying capacity for past beehive.  Remember, this is an underground, self-supported deal and it has always worked well that way.

[krefs]

The water caches that are being mentioned are kept up by AZT enthusiasts and segment stewards year-round for all Arizona Trail users, and any "public" water in the caches has been permissible to use during the race since the race began. I don't think anyone pretends to not use it, but no one should be 100% relying on that water being there, and it's not fair for folks to fill up a gallon or more since the water is somewhat limited. Grabbing water at Beehive Well and then topping off a couple bottles at Freeman is far more reasonable.

In recent years, a few AZT racers or past racers will go out both before and after the event to pick up empty cartons and drop of dozens of gallons to stock the caches and replace what gets used (I've taken 20+ gallons out to Freeman right before or during the race the past couple years). In the early years of the trail, the Freeman Road cache was the only one on the trail, but more have popped up. But none are officially maintained in any way, there's no schedule for verifying that water remains, and no guarantees of any sort that one will find water at any cache, so as mentioned above, you'd best know where else you might find water (per the ATA water datasheet  - there are a couple stock tanks a bit off route north of Freeman), or carry enough to get to the next reliable source.

[falkenjaeger]

Hi there, 750 rider here. I will be arriving in Tucson on 1 Apr (no joke!). My plan is to get to the start line from Sierra Vista. Has anyone already made arrangements for a shuttle from Tucson to SV on the 3rd or 4th or has free space in a car? Is there a possibility to join? Alternatively, I could try to organize a shuttle and would be more than happy to get other riders on board (and split the fare). Many thanks.

[rhino]

Water Advice from an Arizona desert lizard...

The ONLY reliable water source in Arizona is the water that’s in your mouth. What that means is $hit Happens. Springs dry up, streams aren’t running, AZT caches get emptied, water lines break, faucet handles rust and fall off, and that store you were counting on, the owner just died. In Arizona if you put your life on the line for every single water source you may find yourself in danger.

As an AZ local, I and many others, specifically ride up to Freeman Cache expecting it to be absolutely empty every time. Most of us also realize the Freeman Cache is really for hikers and we respect that and use it very sparenly. When in doubt carry 6 liters or more.

In Arizona you need to have a water plan, a backup plan, and another contingency plan for that. $Shit Happens in Arizona. If you fail to plan, Arizona...and Helga, will eat you up.

[ivebeen_framed]

Hi- I see a message from Scott that there will be some minor changes to 2018 Course... Is that going to affect the 300? If yes, when will the GPX file be available? Thanks in advance!

[krefs]

The tracks for both the 300 and the 750 both see minor changes most years. Generally they're posted a couple weeks prior to start, but even then there could be last-minute updates if anything unexpected along the route comes up. Patience... :-)

[Dinodinodino]

Another desert rookie question:  How much sealant should I have in each tire due to all the sharp pointy things?  I assume it would be more than usual... 

[Gimmearaise]

Another desert rookie question:  How much sealant should I have in each tire due to all the sharp pointy things?  I assume it would be more than usual... 

My best advice for you is to just plan on running over plenty of sharp pointy things.

[flyboy]

I finally got around to getting my portage system arranged today. I was pleased to see that it only took a short time to get it comfortable. Using the Mountainsmith strappettes, some strap and my hydration pack it seemed to work well and was reasonably comfortable for a stroll around the backyard. How hard can this canyon hike be.......
Some more serious singletrack hiking is on the cards next week to shake it down.

[ScottM]

The policy says
3. No caches

So, why is everyone, including Krefs and Scott (http://topofusion.com/diary/2012/04/23/azt-300-itt/), using the cache?

The intent of that rule is that no racer should *set up* a cache.  The public water caches are, as Kurt said, available to all AZT users, and racers fall into that group.  Anyone traveling the AZT (not just racers) should try to use the caches sparingly and pay-it-back by replenishing them when possible/practical.

You bring up a fair point that those of us familiar with the race and its long history understand, but could be made more clear.  Thus, I've added #9 to the 'OK but use sparingly' section:

The following are allowed, but not encouraged.  Please use sparingly.                                                                                                               
6. Unplanned support from other AZT racers is OK                  
7. Trail magic OK - but please, no begging        
8. Mailing stuff ahead to Post Offices is OK 
9. Using public AZT water caches is OK - but no personal or race specific caches, please

Part of the intent of the 74 person limit is to reduce the burden on the pubic caches.  There is a very high likelihood of 15 or more scratches before Freeman, so hopefully no more than 50-60 riders reach it.   What Kurt and others said about not relying completely on the caches (don't arrive dry!) or any water source is great advice, and we are relying on the honor system here, as with many other things with this race.

I have personally arrived at Freeman with 4+ liters of good water during the race.

If it gets to be a problem the rules may need to be changed, or less people allowed to race at one time, but we'll deal with it as it arises.  Thus far it has been ok.  I am aware that thru-hiker numbers are increasing, so it is a concern.

[SCAZ]

Hey guys, new to the forum (and the AZT race) but I've committed to the 750 this year.  Looking forward to meeting all of you and putting on the hurt.

I've seen a few people post up about rides.  I'm a Tucson local and I'll be driving down to Sierra Vista with the wife on April 4th after work, staying the night, and continuing to the border in the morning on the 5th.  I have 2 seats available and enough bike racks to go around.  If this sounds interesting to any of you send me a DM.  You'll have to be good with my schedule for getting down there but happy to help if it fits in with what you're doing.

-Sean

[Bike Medic 1]

The public water caches are, as Kurt said, available to all AZT users, and racers fall into that group.  Anyone traveling the AZT (not just racers) should try to use the caches sparingly and pay-it-back by replenishing them when possible/practical.

Hi Everyone, I’m full commit to the AZT 750 and anxiously awaiting the pain it will bring.

I am an AZT trail member and also encourage everyone entering in to this awesome event to do the same!

I am coming from out of state and logistics to the border have been a challenge, but I have locked in a ride to the border, Thanks to Kris at Aho bike shop!  I have a question to the locals... I would like to pay it forward and add water to a cashe on my way down to the border.  Are there any water cashe boxes near the route to the border?  If so which ones and how far off route? 

Best of luck to everyone.

Dave

[Beagle]

I finally got around to getting my portage system arranged today.

Hope the thongs are double pluggas to survive the canyon walk 😜

Tidy looking setup!

N

[ScottM]

Tracker is up!

http://trackleaders.com/aztr18f

65 showing.  There are a few more than 9 spots left given that ITTs and southbounders do not count towards the total.

2018 GPX files to come soon.

I have a question to the locals... I would like to pay it forward and add water to a cashe on my way down to the border.  Are there any water cashe boxes near the route to the border?  If so which ones and how far off route? 

There aren't many south of Tucson if that's your route.  The main one is Freeman Rd as has been discussed here.  It's about 20 miles of dirt off AZ highway 79.  Maybe someone else can think of some south of Tucson?  Sahuarita Rd?  More are popping up as the trail gets popular with thru-hikers.

[dream4est]

Damn that is one stacked 750 field! I am gonna get crushed lol

[hanyo66]

Damn that is one stacked 750 field! I am gonna get crushed lol

I think that's 300 and 750 mixed as of right now

Saw Neil on there....he coming out to take down his own record or going for the 300?

[dream4est]

No I am only talking about the 750 other than you and ron i think everyone on there has whipped my ass at least once in a race