2018 AZTR300/750 Planning Thread

[aarond]

Another option instead of trailforks is to download the .gpx track to your phone and then download the free app "gpx viewer" to open it.  I have used this for the last couple of years as a backup and not had any problems.

[ScottM]

Caches, trail magic and visitation.

I'm working on the long email I send to everyone with important information.  But I want to address a few things here.

Water caches: These are becoming a big issue.  I'm organizing volunteers to replenish and clean the major cache boxes before and after the race.  Any issue with the caches will get blamed on the race, and can lead to no more AZTR.  Too many people (in government positions and land agencies) know about the race and are watching.  There is a legitimate concern that the race will deplete the caches.  To that end:

-- There are a number of public water caches on the trail. These are OK to use, but not encouraged.  We cannot have the race depleting them because they are relied upon by thru-hikers.  Topping off is OK, but do NOT land at a cache dry, or plan to take an entire gallon from one.  In general the advice is: Never rely on water caches. Plan as if they are not there. Carry plenty of water between reliable water sources. Your safety depends on your self-sufficiency.

-- Never, under any circumstances, take water with a person's name written on it. Their life may be depending on it.  Violating this is grounds for instant disqualification.

-- If you encounter a water cache box that is depleted (less than 2 gallons), has trash, or is otherwise in disarray, please send me an email as soon as possible.  All of us are responsible for them, and any issues will be blamed on the race.  

-- Bring and study the water chart (PDF) on this page: https://aztrail.org/explore/water-sources/ . There are
other water sources out there and they may save your thirsty lips plus reduce the overall impact of the race on the trail.

Trail Magic: Absolutely NO unattended food and beverage caches, PLEASE!  These are a bad, bad idea for so many reasons and if we cannot control ourselves, they will be the undoing of the race.  Last year there was one that became a trash problem and was directly linked to the race by government officials.  Do not leave drinks or food unattended, in a cooler, or otherwise, anywhere on the route, especially not at a water cache!  Besides being against the spirit of the race it's bad trail form, causes litter, is bad for wildlife and wilderness.

Trail magic is truly unexpected and from a stranger who is not there specifically for the race.  If you know about the race and are out on the course you should not offer *anything* to a racer, unless they are dropping out or otherwise continuing not a part of the race.  Then by all means, help to your best ability.

Visitation: I'm clarifying this in the rules.  AZTR follows TD guidelines -- minor forms of visitation on the route are allowed but not encouraged at all.  In general a visitor to the race better be local to the route, better visit racers in town or near services, and only for maximum a couple hours.  Self support and equal opportunity, ok?  I can't believe I have to say this, but no pacers!  Planning to have someone meet you out on the route is against the (generally accepted) self-supported ideal and an unfair advantage.

As always, if anyone disagrees with these rules or otherwise doesn't want to follow them (or the route!), that's perfectly fine.  No judgement here, just please go ride the AZT on your own and don't have anything to do with the event.  Thanks.

[ScottM]

Also, looks like we're going to go with only the north rim for snow detours in the 750.  I'll have a GPX file, but there really isn't much need -- just take highway 67 to Jacob Lake, then get back on the trail where it crosses highway 89a.

[CSMITH]

Just got back from dropping 12 gallons at tiger mine cache and cleaning out empties/trash.  Four are marked for people ( and dated so if you're there after the dates have at it) and 8 are marked aztr/public.  I know its not much but it's easiest one I can get to in my car and it's better than nothing.  Removed empties from the one near the underpass as well.

[ScottM]

Just got back from dropping 12 gallons at tiger mine cache and cleaning out empties/trash.  Four are marked for people ( and dated so if you're there after the dates have at it) and 8 are marked aztr/public.  I know its not much but it's easiest one I can get to in my car and it's better than nothing.  Removed empties from the one near the underpass as well.

Thanks for that!  8 to the public pile is good.  Kurt is going to drop more at Tiger and given that many riders will opt to resupply in Oracle, it isn't as crucial as Freeman is.

Are you saying that 4 gallons you dropped off are labeled for specific AZT racers?  If so, please re-read the rules page on the site.  Don't worry, it's probably just an honest misunderstanding, but all bottles dropped off at caches should be for public use. This isn't so much for the future of the race, but for a level playing field, especially for those coming in from out of state, country or continent!  Thanks.

[CSMITH]

Hmm yeah I guess I figured that meant in non designated cache spots, such as random locations on the trail or other spots only yourself might only know of.  My bad.   The box at tiger mine is now full unless you want to start stacking, however the one by the underpass was nearly empty so maybe he'd like to drop them there too?   I know majority of people ride into oracle anyway but some like to hammer on straight through.

[ivebeen_framed]

Where is the Tiger Mine underpass cache? I'm headed that way tomorrow to get some hiking in and can fill it with some public water. I'm guessing just South of the part when AZT hits Tiger Mine Rd? I'll check AZT App to see if there's more info also. Leaving early AM.

[CSMITH]

Yeah just park right at the tiger mine turn off and take the trail under 77. Box is right on the other side.

[trail_skidz]

For those having trouble with Trailforks… Gaia, Earthmate, and Ridewithgos all handle the gpx no problem

[ScottM]

Hmm yeah I guess I figured that meant in non designated cache spots, such as random locations on the trail or other spots only yourself might only know of.  My bad.   The box at tiger mine is now full unless you want to start stacking, however the one by the underpass was nearly empty so maybe he'd like to drop them there too?   I know majority of people ride into oracle anyway but some like to hammer on straight through.

No worries, honest misunderstanding.

Self-support and equal opportunity are the guiding principles, but I think the rules needed to spell out more what that means.  That is my failing.

ATA says the box at the Tiger TH will be going away (but not before the race).  Sounds like the one at the culvert will be full soon again, thanks ive_been_framed!

[schillingsworth]

When I try to open the 750 file in Trailforks, it sits there forever saying "loading ride" , but it never gets anywhere. Any bright ideas? 

Hmmm, that's strange. I only posted the track there as a backup. If you're trying to download the .gpx file I'd just grab it from the official event page. I just tried Trailforks and it loaded and downloaded fine, no hesitation. All I'd do is hit the 'save/wishlist' button above the map and that'll sync it to the app. Again, I wouldn't use this method for sole navigation. With that said, try some of the other suggestions as backup as well.

[CSMITH]

I always thought it was weird they had two boxes that close together.. makes sense for one to go away.

[Chummer]

I plan on riding the AZT300 next week.  Just got a SPOT tracker.   Is it too late to sign up/add it to the tracking page?   I thought I read that it is full, but never saw a deadline. 

Also, anyone got a shuttle spot open for a bike/rider?   Could meet in PHX or Tucson. 

Thanks.   chadhummer@hotmail.com

[bmattingly]

Checked the trail conditions at Aspen Corner today.  A couple patches of snow only in the shade.  overall looked pretty dry.  Should be no problem for most.  The Southbounders may encounter some patches but I think it will be easy to ride or walk around a few spots. 

Amazing difference from a year ago.

Have fun out there.

[ivebeen_framed]

Update on Caches... I added 2 gallons to Freeman and counted something like 25 gallons public. Kelvin TH needs some water. I added more than planned, but there's only maybe 8 gallons public there (obviously there's a spigot just passed the river on the left at the County Garage). I pulled all the old containers and trash. Tiger Mine TH can use some more also, there was probably 8-10 gallons there public. Because of putting more in Kelvin, I was not able to add to the Tiger Mine underpass... If anyone can add to that and Kelvin, that would be great. FYI- Freeman had a bunch of jugs on top of the cache. Looked a little sloppy and temps are rising, so I cleaned things up a bit and put everything inside of the cache. The wonderful Trail Angel that had been parked there all March has sadly returned to Scottsdale until Nov. When I talked with him a few weeks ago, I tried to convince him to stay another week into April, but he says its too hot!

[ScottM]

I plan on riding the AZT300 next week.  Just got a SPOT tracker.   Is it too late to sign up/add it to the tracking page?   I thought I read that it is full, but never saw a deadline. 

Sorry, we've reached the limit for riders starting on Thursday.  This limit is to help insure that the race can continue and to limit its impact on the trail and other users, so I hope you understand.

The option for an ITT starting a day or two before/after is still available (any day, actually) -- let me know if you'd like to do that and I'll send you the tracking registration link.

Checked the trail conditions at Aspen Corner today.  A couple patches of snow only in the shade.  overall looked pretty dry.  Should be no problem for most.  The Southbounders may encounter some patches but I think it will be easy to ride or walk around a few spots. 

Excellent, thanks for that Brad!  I drove through Flag (and Jacob Lake) today and my read on the conditions jives with what you first hand reported and what I said earlier -- North Rim snow detour is in play, but everything else is full route!

Update on Caches... I added 2 gallons to Freeman and counted something like 25 gallons public. Kelvin TH needs some water. I added more than planned, but there's only maybe 8 gallons public there (obviously there's a spigot just passed the river on the left at the County Garage). I pulled all the old containers and trash. Tiger Mine TH can use some more also, there was probably 8-10 gallons there public. Because of putting more in Kelvin, I was not able to add to the Tiger Mine underpass... If anyone can add to that and Kelvin, that would be great. FYI- Freeman had a bunch of jugs on top of the cache. Looked a little sloppy and temps are rising, so I cleaned things up a bit and put everything inside of the cache. The wonderful Trail Angel that had been parked there all March has sadly returned to Scottsdale until Nov. When I talked with him a few weeks ago, I tried to convince him to stay another week into April, but he says its too hot!

It's too hot for trailer-life, for sure.  80 is about the limit in our little Scamp.

Thank-you very much for checking in on all those caches, and taking care of them.  We should be able to get them restocked as you suggest before the race.  Then even more importantly, we need to check on them towards the tail end of the race, clean and replenish.

[ScottM]

AZTR Rules

The rules pages just got a lot longer:

http://topofusion.com/azt/race-rules.php

I have extended it, clarified things, and added a lot of info that used to only be in the email I sent out to everyone. 

This year I've become aware that the existing simple set of rules is not clear enough and can even be prone to exploitation.  So I've expounded upon on what my view of self-supported bikepack racing is, which I believe is general consensus across the sport -- there is not much variation between the bigger and well established races.

The info on caches / trail etiquette needs to be there so that the general public can see it and better understand our race, too. 

The failing, in this area, is mine.  Some form of this information should have been on the website before this year.

Please read carefully and ask questions if they arise.  Thanks everyone.

[ivebeen_framed]

Thanks for the clarification... Full Disclosure, I placed 2 gallons of water at Redington cache last week with my initials on them, then "AZTR after 6 April", "Public after 10 April". I honestly didn't see that this was a violation until that post a few ago where you clarified that. If anyone goes to Redington, feel free to cross everything out, except "public", but I will not have time this week to go and correct my error. I will try to bring a sharpie to change them to public when I get there during Race... Will this work for my Rookie Mistake?

[Chummer]

Ha!  Well, I've been planning on this event for almost a year, in talking with past participants and reading the 'AZT Racer Page', there was nothing about all these rules/requirements/deadlines/rider limits.   I just re-read the 'new' rules and there is still a lot of grey area.  Why not just make it absolutely NO support/water caches/trail magic for people treating it like a 'honest race'?  Why not set a specific rider limit?  Why not specify if a tracker is required or not?   Sounds like half the 'racers' stash stuff for themselves or have 'friends' that magically show up and aid the riders.   Really needs to be black and white or strip away the 'race' tagline and call it a general 'ride' and break it into finisher/non-finisher. 

[ScottM]

Thanks for the clarification... Full Disclosure, I placed 2 gallons of water at Redington cache last week with my initials on them, then "AZTR after 6 April", "Public after 10 April". I honestly didn't see that this was a violation until that post a few ago where you clarified that. If anyone goes to Redington, feel free to cross everything out, except "public", but I will not have time this week to go and correct my error. I will try to bring a sharpie to change them to public when I get there during Race... Will this work for my Rookie Mistake?

If you bring a sharpie to change it to public, and clean up the empties at a later date, all good.

Rookie mistakes happen, I understand.  The rule does very clearly say "no caches", meaning don't make your own cache.  I do understand that the water caches were not well defined so there was room for confusion.