Abandon Bikepacking Seatbag for Dropper Post Priority...questions

[Adam Alphabet]

Posting this in the race forum as I'm asking in the context of racing; speed, efficiency, lightweight bare minimum gear lists for trail races...

Assuming you've got say 5" or less between your seat rails and rear tire and will not use a valais collar.
I've been thinking I would sooner get rid of of a traditional larger bikepacking style seat bag and it's associated volume (even the dropper post specific ones) than get rid of or reduce drop in my dropper post.

*For those people who have gotten rid of their bikepacking type seat bags what did you use as alternatives....? which are your favourite?
I've seen smaller tool bags, bottles behind the seat like triathletes, nothing at all.

*How did getting rid of your large seat bag affect how you packed the rest of your gear...? Did you find you overloaded the front bar roll or have to add a bunch of auxiliary gas tanks etc..?

Thanks in advance!

[dream4est]

Well imo the future is all dropper posts for trail bikes. So small bags of 5l or less capacity are what seems to work. I am working on one for racing that's gonna last more than one race and weighs very little say 3oz. It's a process learning to make something ultralight on industrials but I am very getting there.
I am hoping there will be a market for a bare bones race bag like this but we will see.

[Adam Alphabet]

Well imo the future is all dropper posts for trail bikes. So small bags of 5l or less capacity are what seems to work. I am working on one for racing that's gonna last more than one race and weighs very little say 3oz. It's a process learning to make something ultralight on industrials but I am very getting there.
I am hoping there will be a market for a bare bones race bag like this but we will see.

I'm totally with you Mark, I would sooner give up my suspension fork than my dropper post.
I've made a few dropper specific seatbags now that I've used on the AZT and CTR and some single track tours. Different versions each getting a little more refined without adding too much extra. My vision is something as simple and not much larger than a Bedrock Sinbad that could hold some light puffy items like a jacket and wind breaker without being too feature rich.

For those of us who make gear it's easy to come up with stuff and tinker away for hours getting it just right.

For those that don't make gear (most racers I'm assuming) what were your solutions for getting rid of traditional larger bike packing seat bags?

[dream4est]

My vision is something as simple and not much larger than a Bedrock Sinbad that could hold some light puffy items like a jacket and wind breaker without being too feature rich.

I am working on exactly that idea something bigger than the Sinbad but same weight.

[MikeC]

I'm not much interested in bikepacking unless it means wild, remote singletrack.  Which means I still want my dropper, and I don't enjoy the routes as much if I don't have one.

So I've gone to much smaller seatbags, and limited dropper travel.  Ideal?  Nope, compromise.

I've shuffled some of the bulk to my back, but not much.  I've added a 'beer sleeve' bag under my DT to carry the weight that's been removed from the seat bag.  Ideal?  Again, no, but compromises had to be made.

[dream4est]

Here are some pix of a prototype I have been testing:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2081179918879274&id=100009618588631

https://www.facebook.com/mark.caminiti.39/posts/2081179918879274?notif_id=1542157759212992&notif_t=feedback_reaction_generic

Text of my FB post :
"I have been working on a dropper post compatible seatbag for many years. Some have worked well others just okay. Now I have one that works better than I had hoped for. It is a harness for a small dry bag. One floating cam buckle strap does two jobs at once and is replaceable. It is the same exact bag I used earlier this year in the azt750 it now has the modifications I wanted and fixed the mistakes I made on the original harness prototype.
2oz - production will be higher
Super stable holds a good bit until it moves horizontally load in pix is 12" long has a tube and a thermorest neo air xl in there. I would say one more item could go in there the size of a tube. More on a hardtail. Thin items could also be added too tuna pouches for instance my example drybag has soom room to spare in there. I actually have the straps too tight in pix it can be used by sleep deprived bikepackers you dont have to nail the install to make it stable lol.
Clearance all day
Protects your ultralight or regular drybag from accidental tire hit.
Easy to access your drybag while on bike and retighten load.
This is the final prototype now it's on to production. Finally!"

[Adam Alphabet]

I'm not much interested in bikepacking unless it means wild, remote singletrack.  Which means I still want my dropper, and I don't enjoy the routes as much if I don't have one.

So I've gone to much smaller seatbags, and limited dropper travel.  Ideal?  Nope, compromise.

I've shuffled some of the bulk to my back, but not much.  I've added a 'beer sleeve' bag under my DT to carry the weight that's been removed from the seat bag.  Ideal?  Again, no, but compromises had to be made.

Thanks for chiming in Mike. I appreciate the detail you put into your blog posts and trip reports. I often take the time, over a cup of tea to geek out on the details of your posts.

I had noticed the down tube bags and smaller seat bags often with a collar on some of your setups. I'm also not opposed to a little more backpack to make the bike handle better. I think this is lost on many people who favour road/dirt road type routes and swear by the 'no backpack ever' ethos.

Overall it seems it you're happy with the compromises you mention above? From your statements they seem more favourable than not running a dropper for the routes you prefer.

Do you feel you've found your optimal set up for say high mountain late spring/summer/early fall single track trips?

[Adam Alphabet]

Here are some pix of a prototype I have been testing:
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2081179918879274&id=100009618588631

Link didn't work for me Mark...

[MikeC]

Do you feel you've found your optimal set up for say high mountain late spring/summer/early fall single track trips?

The parameters for every trip are so different it's really hard to say I've settled on anything.  Just when I think I have, we come up with some new trip and have to rethink how to make everything work.

[Adam Alphabet]

The parameters for every trip are so different it's really hard to say I've settled on anything.  Just when I think I have, we come up with some new trip and have to rethink how to make everything work.

Fair enough.. I personally find the constant rethinking part of the fun, part of the build up.. the never ending battle keeps things interesting when scheming and dreaming of the next trip.

[KittyOnMyFoot]

I'm totally with you Mark, I would sooner give up my suspension fork than my dropper post.

Same. I might give it up if I rode on pavement.

I use a rear rack with panniers. The rear rack does more than hold bags for me though (plus I'm not racing or anything, and really don't sweat weight that much), and they have way more room than a seat bag.

• My rear suspension is the sort that got bad "brake judder" (like trying to shake me off the bike bad). After studying it for a while, I found it comes from the rear braking force coming straight up the seat stays, in line with the rear shock, where it would start to resonate. The Old Man Mountain racks I use clamp the middle of the stays, which "broke" its resonant frequency, and completely cured this phenomenon for me.
• On rare occasions, when 5" doesn't get me low enough for a descent, I will still hang my butt over the rear tire. The rack lets me get my butt as low as possible over the tire without having the crotch of my shorts catch on the wheel.
• It's on fender duty (though I like this more for keeping mud off the back of my dropper post than my butt, to prolong its life.
• Of course it works for hanging panniers off the sides.
• It was part of the solution for getting rid of my backpack while still carrying my stuff (found a handlebar-mounted bag with a water bladder but not enough room for tools, so, the rack now holds my tool pouch). The "triangle" was already booked with a spare tube, headlight battery, and camera.

[Adam Alphabet]

That is really nice Mark, simple, clever and stable. I remember us chatting about this at the border for a bit in April. Glad your newer iterations are working.
Mine have generally been smaller versions of more traditional seat packs with refinements to each version before each race. I'm starting to shift my thoughts on this though a bit of a paradigm shift in my approach to seat bags. It's easy to overthink things sometimes.

[krefs]

Adam, I second MikeC's thoughts - it's all about compromise. I personally wouldn't want to ride a lot of the trails that I love to bikepack on (including the AZT and CT) without a dropper. That being said, I'm not willing to give up on a seat bag. So I usually limit my dropper travel to 3" or so, and I use a Revelate Designs Vole dropper-specific bag - the plastic sheet on the underside protects the bottom in case I occasionally use all my rear travel and buzz the tire with the seat bag. And with the slacker front end geometries and longer travel forks on the bikes I'm riding these days, a bit more weight on the handlebars than I used to prefer has been fine.

[Adam Alphabet]

Adam, I second MikeC's thoughts - it's all about compromise. I personally wouldn't want to ride a lot of the trails that I love to bikepack on (including the AZT and CT) without a dropper. That being said, I'm not willing to give up on a seat bag. So I usually limit my dropper travel to 3" or so, and I use a Revelate Designs Vole dropper-specific bag - the plastic sheet on the underside protects the bottom in case I occasionally use all my rear travel and buzz the tire with the seat bag. And with the slacker front end geometries and longer travel forks on the bikes I'm riding these days, a bit more weight on the handlebars than I used to prefer has been fine.

Thanks for your valued input Kurt. I've been thinking about this a bit and have come to similar conclusions... I think. 

I use a Gravity Dropper and noticed my new set up has 5" of drop compared to my old one which had 4" of drop. That 1" makes a huge difference in limiting the real estate between seat rails and top of tire.

I think for races I'd give up that 1"... put in a 4" inside tube and call it good as it's worked for me in the past.
Compromise can be good.

[evdog]

Agree on compromises.  I've done a couple bikepacks that included descents where I definitely wanted to be able to use the dropper.  I ride a small size bike which doesn't allow enough room to drop the saddle and use a seat bag (still using a viscacha), nor does it allow much room for a frame bag.  For those bikepacks I left the seatbag at home and rode with a larger pack.  Added weight hurt the shoulders on several significant hike a bikes, but was worth it for the descents - both for safety and fun factor. 

I've since added some extra accessory bags to help put more on weight on the bike: a couple Rogue panda Oracle bags, one goes on a fork leg and the other on my downtube, and a larger top tube bag.  I could also add a small tool seatbag when not using a bikepacking seatbag. 

Another idea is to remove the seat bag from the bike for the gnarly descents and just strap it to my backpack temporarily.  This would allow me to use the dropper when I really need it, then put the seatbag back on the bike when the terrain mellows out.  Might be the best solution for me.  If you can drop the seat just an inch or two that can make a big difference in descending ability.  I find being able to lower the saddle makes much more difference in descending ability than adding/removing weight from the bike,handlebars or pack.