AZT 300 in Stage Stops 5-6 days

[AZTtripper]

The idea of doing the AZT 300 in stages came up on the Coco 250 thread http://www.bikepacking.net/forum/index.php/topic,1084.0.html

The question is would anyone be interested in taking a full week off of work to do the course in reasonable sections say 50-60 miles a day.

It wouldn't be that hard to come up with some good spots to camp it's just a matter of is there any interest.

It's still a ways off more then 5 months to plan ahead Scott usually has the date set sometime in mid January plenty of time to put in for vacation time.

[Roland Sturm]

I personally like that concept a lot. I've been eying the AZT 300 for a while anyway and had it on my list for next year (at least until work/vacation/family constraints kick in).  Not knowing the trail, I probably was going to look at a minimum 4 day time anyway (and seeing the DNF rates, maybe even that is far too optimistic). Having the distance broken into manageable pieces by somebody knowing the route is great.

Presumably, the race focus will switch from surviving the distance towards hammering each stage (complemented with a bit of camp hanging out). Sounds good. People will differ in their assessment of whether this is a good or bad thing. For me, multi-stages with designated overnights raises the attractiveness of AZT 300. Others may argue it dumbs down the concept or just makes it too accessible.

Given my lack of knowledge about AZT (let alone racing it), my comments are at best uninformed guesses, but here they are: TD has easy roads, anybody can ride them, the race is about managing an extraordinary distance efficiently, not how fast you can climb a particular pass, descent, or handle your bike; planning your own daily stage is key. On a 1/9th of the distance on much harder territory, maybe climbing pace and handling technical trails (rather than personal stage management) become more important? Then breaking AZT 300 into multiple stages does not dumb it down, but rather emphasizes the challenge (or at least emphasizes a different challenge). No matter which way it'll go, I'd be snailing behind, although as hard as I can.

Roland

[AZTtripper]

Yep making it a stage race definitely makes it easier. I would likely not have brought it up if not for the other post on stage racing (most notably that Scott didn't seem opposed to it).

Obviously people racing in stages will have it a lot easier then then the die hard through riders (sleep deprivation crowd).

I have started in all but one (missed the first) AZT 300 this year was the first time that I have seen many of the other racers. Seems like a lot of the riders are so far above me that they are just gone and I never see them again. I can't even compare myself to any of these guys and I don't even try to keep up with them.

This year I had a plan to finish in 6 days I mostly camped in the places I had planned and things went pretty well. It seems quite feasible to push things a bit more for a 5 day time frame the true Ultra racers will have been done for 2 plus days and will most likely be back at work by then.   

Tim

[Done]

I think that stage races remove some of the "adventure" of multi-day racing. On the CTR, I really liked dealing with the uncertainty of where I'd be sleeping, how late into the night I would be able to ride, whether I'd see another racer, etc. While I reserve the right to change my mind in the future, stage races don't interest me much. I'd like to ride the AZT 750/800 (maybe in 2012), the "traditional" way.

[sherpaxc]

Can't both be done at the same time?  Meaning you have the thru racers and the stage racers.  Just a thought.

[DaveH]

A stage race concept doesn't really "dumb down" a multi-day, it is something completely different.  Route knowledge and raw power become the deciding factors rather than your standard multi-day grit.  It's a different experience than a thru-rider will experience, personally I wouldn't be interested in a stage race for the AZT 300 but I'm notoriously anti-social on the trail

[AZTtripper]

Can't both be done at the same time?  Meaning you have the thru racers and the stage racers.  Just a thought.

If I understand you right yes both can be done at the same time that's how its been for the Coconino 250. And that's what I meant, never meant to take anything away from the full on thru racers. And in no way thinking that the stage style can compare physically or mentally. Thou perhaps there are some different strategies.

Also it might be better to have the stage race start on a different day. Only because it might fit better in the frame work of taking a full weeks vacation for those working stiffs out there. Starting on Friday works good for guys or gals who can finish in under 3 days. It might make more sense to start the 5 days on a Sunday or Monday.

[Marshal]

I doubt I will have the time this yr but doing the AZT 300 stage style interests me, alot. 

If it gets set up I will see if my schedule would let me join in

Side note: might make the finish logistics a bit easier, even fun

Marshal

[ScottM]

It's a different experience than a thru-rider will experience, personally I wouldn't be interested in a stage race for the AZT 300 but I'm notoriously anti-social on the trail

One of the cool things about the stage format is you don't need to chat on trail or feel like you need to ride with anyone -- there is plenty of time to be social when the riding is over for the day.  At least that's my view.

If there's significant interest I don't see any reason not to offer a stage version of the 300.  5 full days might be enough, considering that 2 of the Coco stages are "short."  Or go with 6 and have some easier stages built in. 

In the end I'm all for anything that gets people on the AZT, seeing the route and out bikepacking in general.

Same time frame as the regular 300 makes sense, but it could start a day or two earlier, maybe.  We'll have to think about that.

[Roland Sturm]

In the end I'm all for anything that gets people on the AZT, seeing the route and out bikepacking in general.

I think a stage version would achieve that, maybe the main reason against it would be if you were concerned about too many people finishing. Probably not an issue at this point, maybe never, although eventually there is a limit to how many bicycles can be on the trail within a few hours of each other without becoming a nuisance (in particular to other trail users). Where do you think that starts? 20? 50?

But count me as somebody who would find a stage version attractive enough to plan my work schedule around it.

Roland Sturm

[DaNM]

 Not sure stage racing should be run on the "classic" routes, with growth and the future in mind the stops would need public toilets. The unique route of the Coconino was great, but if in 10 years there are 30 people doing it, low impact bike packing might not be so low impact.
 Now I`m tempted to come up with a route in my area. I would look for some backwoods campgrounds. We could remain self supported and be around a bit more public for the stage stops, maybe invite family. The stage format will get more people out there, that is good.
 Starting in 10 minute intervals is thought.
 
 
   
 
 
 
 
 

[ScottM]

That is a good point about bathrooms for stage races.  Stage 2 on Coco could move to the FS campground at the top of Mingus.  Sedona Overlook will be an issue, though.

I don't think it will come into play for an AZT stage race for a few years yet, but it is a consideration.

Re: crowding, the open ended start time pretty well ensures there won't be any conga lines.  Don't want to get stuck behind people?  Get up early and head out first!

Dan, please make a similar loop in Colorado and let me know if you need help.  I have a fair amount of GPX data on some CT alternates I've explored bikepacking before.  Remember -- loop please!  Shuttle logistics are for the birds.

[AZTtripper]

Not sure stage racing should be run on the "classic" routes, with growth and the future in mind the stops would need public toilets. The unique route of the Coconino was great, but if in 10 years there are 30 people doing it, low impact bike packing might not be so low impact.
 Now I`m tempted to come up with a route in my area. I would look for some backwoods campgrounds. We could remain self supported and be around a bit more public for the stage stops, maybe invite family. The stage format will get more people out there, that is good.
 Starting in 10 minute intervals is thought. 
 

Good points Dan. Though I think most of it could be worked out if need be. If we go up the east side you might get to the point where you had to rent Kentucky Camp. If you knew you had a group that big we would have to start planning for either restrooms or people could bring wag bags if that's what it came to. That would work for the Overlook or any time you could ditch it pretty quickly.

Starting at 9:00 (or as close to it) as usual the ultra endurance crowd starts at a set time and those guys go out en mass, I should think that's a big part of that race. Stage racers keep their own time and leave when they are ready just like we did in Flagstaff. There has yet to be a mass start for the Coco only one person each year has started in that mode. I would think that that side of it has no stage stop rights that race stays on a running clock the same for everyone from the start.

Here we went from thinking no one would take that much time to thinking there will be a crowd of 30. At this point it looks like one person has shown an interest in three months if it looks like more then 12 maybe I should be worried. Can open worms schralping all over the place.

[OurManInTheNorth]

Hmm interesting idea, I loved the few times on the AZT300 when I wasn't so far behind everyone else that I got to talk a little with folks. And it was great to see all those I'd been in touch with on here in the run up to the event. But then half the reason I had such a great experience was that after I think saying 'morning' to Mary on day 3 as she rode past while I was in my sleeping bag, I didn't speak to anyone from the AZT until Kurt caught up his 1 week (!) handicap to pass me heading up onto the Mogollon Rim, we had lunch together but he was in record breaking mode and I was in 'try to eat enough to not die out here before the next refuelling place' mode so he jetted off pretty quick!

Anyway if it's the same time(ish) as the AZT I'm out, but if anyone would be interested in similar in Oct or Nov next year and the weather is OK for an attempt then, I might just be in town...