AZT 750/300 2015 Planning

[distortion10]

I am up in Flagstaff and am hoping to do some preriding in Jan/Feb/March...
What about holiday weekends?

Awesome. Other than the weekend of January 24th I'm open, just message me some dates that work for you.

[mikepro]

The deal with the wheels is; I have the means to get a new bike and I am interested in getting a new bike but i am kind of a use it till it dies guy, and my current ride (2012 Giant trance X3- 26"wheels) is not pretty but is as healthy as it was for the 300 two years ago.
Cheers

I finished the 750 on 26" wheels last spring.  Solid wheelset and tires.  Drivetrain also a big consideration to eval.  I'd certainly take the same bike to do it again, but prob not the same gearing and maybe a diff saddle.  Last spring I pedaled a 2x10 with 28t and 40t up front and 11t-34t spread in the back.  One of my post-ride-takeaways is/was that a 26t up front would've been more useful, and/or perhaps something larger than 34t in the rear.  XX1 drivetrains are mighty attractive to me for this type of thing.

[Yogi the Barry]

Re: low gearing and anti-1X rant
Endurance race gearing on my current 29er HT is 2X10, with 21T-32T-bash chainrings and 11-36 cassette. I spin out about 30-32 mph, but can spin all day in the low 20s. Besides, if my speed hits 25 or higher, it's because gravity has taken over. At that point, I just coast and enjoy the chance to recover. Love the 21T granny [ActionTec Ti] ring for those sustained climbs where you can actually spin at 3-4 mph and not be forced to HAB.
For a previous 26er FS bike, I ran the same gearing but big ring was a 34T.
I even run a 22T as a granny on non-endurance bike.
BTW - New 2015 XT crank [M782] is going to have 22-30-40 chainrings... so even Shimano acknowledges a need for something smaller than their 24-32-42 trio for 29ers.
For my old knees and legs, I doubt a 1X drivetrain will ever be on a fully loaded endurance bike I own, because 1X doesn't have the range of a 2X drivetrain.
Priced 1X replacements cassettes and/or chainrings lately?
Downside to running a 2X or 3X drivetrain? A thick skin and healthy ego are required to fend off the 1X disciples.

I finished the 750 on 26" wheels last spring.  Solid wheelset and tires.  Drivetrain also a big consideration to eval.  I'd certainly take the same bike to do it again, but prob not the same gearing and maybe a diff saddle.  Last spring I pedaled a 2x10 with 28t and 40t up front and 11t-34t spread in the back.  One of my post-ride-takeaways is/was that a 26t up front would've been more useful, and/or perhaps something larger than 34t in the rear.  XX1 drivetrains are mighty attractive to me for this type of thing.

[windowace]

MikeP and Yogi the B,

Thanks for the input. I have decided to stick with my current bike (26") but will likely make some upgrades.  The first two things that come to mind would be switching to a 2X drivetrain and new wheels.  Suggestions or recommendations?  I have not made the switch to tubeless and have a major concern to switching this near to party, simply because i have no experience. Anyone care to sway me?

[AZTtripper]

Tubeless the best thing ever or a rolling pain in the ass. If you get lucky and everything goes your way a nice tubeless tire may hold the whole way. Tubeless is no doubt the way most if not all of the fastest riders will be rolling. And if something does go awry you can always throw a tube in, and if you really slice a side wall your doing that anyway.

Not sure about hubs but the Stans Arch EX is a sweet rim.

As to weather 2.9 months is enough time to put it together, not sure depends on how you go about it. I think BTI carries Stans built wheels now, not sure about Stans hubs. Any bike shop should have them in a week 2 at the most. Set of Rampages set up tubeless and your good to go.

Tim

[dream4est]

I am back to filled tubes in these races. After 15 races/long rides tubeless I went slime tubes in CTR. Here is my .02:

1. On a FS bike tire pressure is not the same issue as on a HT or rigid. I ride an FS and when I went back UP in pressure to 28+ I got faster in the Tour Divide.

2. 2 tubes and 1 spare weighs the same as tubeless and 2 spares (all filled tubes regular wall a 26er slime light tube in the front tire and 26 slime light spares). Plus u get some extra cargo room carrying only 1 tube spare.

In CTR I could not tell if I was slower with tubes than TD with same tires tubeless. It was close. Each tube weighs in the 7oz range though heavy 29er slime tubes that weigh 13-16 oz would feel sluggish. I run a thin 29er tube filled with stans or slime in front and a 26er slime light tube in the back. The slime doesnt make a mess like it does in tubeless, it may leave a little residue when it fills a hole but not much.

3. The time I wasted saving tubeless can now be used riding not sitting there fixing the tire from the outside. I will fix the damaged tube (if I get one) at night before bed, using all the MacGruber tricks I learned "saving" tubeless.

4. The proper tires for the course plus 28+ psi filled tubes should fail less than tubeless IMO. I didnt even pump up a tire in the CTR, and I ran 590 gram tires that were a little light for some of the rockier sections. For AZT i am running a 750/820 gram tire combo. I consider under 700 grams in AZT to be risking it for cuts/punctures.

Once again I will say that on a FS bike with adjustable suspension I love this setup. On a HT or rigid flats may happen at 28+ psi. On my bike I just set the pressure to stop a pinch flat in the rear and go a little less up front.

Day riding I would probably stay with tubeless and run riskier tire setups (light). But these races are not day rides. I wasted some time in TD last year screwing around with tubeless. Like Tim says tubeless can be money or lame I choose to just remove the guesswork out of it now.

[Adam Alphabet]

Everyone talks up the Rampages for the AZT. I asked about them here and all reactions from well trusted tire sources have been really negative for our steep/wet/rooty/rocky trails especially this time of year when riding means temps in the high 30's and wet/cold. I'm used to running 2.35" Ikons (exo) in the rear. Current front is a Minion DHR II.

Is there enough meat on the Ikon for the AZT, traction and sidewall? I'd rather not start tire experimenting with something that may give me no confidence riding my regular trails.

[joeydurango]

I personally ride the Ardent 2.4 EXO TR up front, and the Ikon 2.35 EXO TR in the rear.  I love these tires and have had zero issues.  I have not done the AZT yet, and am aware of its sharp, chunky nastiness, but I've ridden a lot of primitive backcountry trail/non-trail on these tires and they are what I'd bring down to the AZTR.  YMMV, of course!

Re: tubeless or not, in the shop setting I see a lot of folks with varying tubeless experiences.  Seems to me that most of the issues people have are generally due to poor equipment choices, lack of mechanical ability, or assuming that "tubeless" means "indestructible".  Common sense, preventative maintenance, and knowing how to sew up a tire sidewall and throw a tube in if the worst case happens is key!

[dream4est]

Rampage kills it on the AZT. Slow in the rear though.
Tanner M says Ikon should be okay though many AZ folks run it.

[Adam Alphabet]

Rampage kills it on the AZT. Slow in the rear though.
Tanner M says Ikon should be okay though many AZ folks run it.

haha, thanks!

[dream4est]

Tubeless has a learning curve and perhaps requires an acquired taste, but I like the taste!

I like it too, but after analyzing some of my data vs tubes, plus Spot MPH data, I have come to the conclusion that for my 150lb riding style, the tubes seem to perform the same in long multi day events with no maintanence whatsoever. Like tubeless, tubes are a skill to be mastered with experience. I have cleared the CTR or 750 with tubeless, and I have failed.

 After reflection, I realized that in the 14 years I have run tubeless, a tube I have used (always filled) either in an emergency or on purpose for the last 1300 miles or so has only failed completely once or twice I believe. I have only been able to go that far or farther once or twice tubeless, and I had to pump a tire or patch from the outside. I have seen my tubes or riding partners tubes hold between 3-100 punctures just like tubeless, the stans/slime doesnt know any different really and in the sealed tube environment lasts longer and leaks less IMO.

If I were a pinch flat master, or a crasher, I would not switch. 1 pinch flat for me with a tube in in 9 years. 1 tubeless pinch flat in that same time.

For me pumping a tire a bunch or patching/gluing the outside really means the setup failed and I had to resort to wasted stopped time. I am trying to squeeze some more mph out of my slow azz in the singletrack events (currently 4.2 moving time/2 to 1 moving to stopped time/ about 67 miles a day for both courses-  in CTR/750 looking for closer to 5.0 moving speed and 4 to 1 moving vs stopped  but that is gonna take some work). So any time I gain not stopped or moving quicker is good to me. With tubeless I always have to fiddle and pump or patch or both. Swapping a tube is just plain faster and my mind will always try to "save" the tubeless so it is a crippler to me.

[tanman1337]

That's why I love this sport...Everyone is different and all the equipment is different. Hey Mark, I think that is what I'm probably going to run this year. It is a powerful combo in the desert. Rampage in the front, Ikon EXO in the rear

[dream4est]

Hi Tanner I am running Speshy Ground Control Grid 2.3 up front and either a Conti Protection Trail King 2.2 or a Geax Saguaro 2.2 wire bead cheapie in back. Got em cheap at cost all pretty heavy 750-850g. Scared to run the Ikon for the Canelos, Oracle Ridge, Highline trail and last 20 miles to Utah border (the worst cut zones IMO).

[dream4est]

I am not saying one way is better for all Barry. You just like to disagree, like the 1x drivetrain deal.

My way worked for me and I am sharing it. I dont know what/where you ride. Why do you keep supposing you know what/where I ride?   

[aarond]

After living in Tucson for four years and riding the AZTR 750 twice (almost) plus a fair amount of touring on the trail, I would never go with tubes.  I have had really good luck with tubeless and almost never flat, and if you get a really big hole, you can shove a stick in there and seal it.  Tubes would work okay on some of the other bikepack races, but there is so much cactus on the Arizona trail that you are almost guaranteed to flat if you are just riding tubes--in my opinion.

[dream4est]

After 4 AZT750s and a Tim/Flagstone tour I would say tubes filled with slime/stans have performed about the same for me as tubeless in AZ. I have seen both fail, and I have seen both hold a hundred punctures.

Filled tubes would have to work or the only 750 finishers would be ones who held tubeless the whole way. That is simply not the case I have finished 2x with slime tubes after tubeless failed and so have others.

edit- Arno Minner finished the 750 in 2012 with standard unfilled tubes on rigid 29er. He blew by me late as I tried to fix a leaking tubeless tire. Ironic.

[tanman1337]

Hey quick questions for you Ocotillo members out there. I renewed my membership so that I could check out the MTB Maps they have created...unfortunately they have a ton of them missing when you go to click on the different passages... Anyone know what gives?

[tanman1337]

Mark, I totally get where you are coming from. I think fixing tubeless sucks, especially when it really goes wrong like I know it has in the past for you. I personally love my tubeless, but I also ride a HT and weigh 180lbs

[dream4est]

I have had amazing luck with tubeless. And I have had crushing failures, like in last years TD in southern Co/northern NM.
IMO there is an alternative in mastering filled tubes for a guy my weight who rides "light" on a FS bike. Is it for everyone? Hell no. But I like the simplicity that really didnt exist before tubeless as Stans and Slime were not around in pre tubeless days to fill tubes with.


Edit- As far as speed let me add this. Valerie Kato was running tubes and Mr tuffy liners in TD. She was fast. Hard to keep up with. My Carbon wheels were way lighter and my tires lighter etc. She was fast even with those heavy wheels. She made me think a lot about tubes and such.

[dream4est]

Barry my left hand cant handle the upshifts from granny anymore after so many multi day events. My only real 1x argument because of an old broken bone in the hand issue. After say the 750 my left thumb wont work for awhile.

In 1x10- 30/42 was enough for CTR climbing and I had enough gear to ride the detours in 30/11. With a 1x9 (32- 11/34) I didnt have enough gear on either end in TD. But I managed.