AZTR 2013 Planning

[Gimmearaise]

Just got basecamp too, I like how you can use it with google earth! even with a etrex 30 I still want to get a topo map where I can mark water points! any suggestions?

Getting Excited

Thanks,

NEIL

[AZTtripper]

Just got basecamp too, I like how you can use it with google earth! even with a etrex 30 I still want to get a topo map where I can mark water points! any suggestions?

Getting Excited

Thanks,

NEIL

Assuming you mean you want a paper map to back up your electronic device.

You could just print pages off of the screen.

What I have done is make photo copies of the off road atlas pages that I need. http://shop.delorme.com/OA_HTML/DELibeCCtdItemDetail.jsp?forge_prod=RbR9Bw_6g54IciZK4xKD3Nd4%3AS&beginIndex=0&item=72&section=10096&forge_prod_pses=forge_prod%3DRbR9Bw_6g54IciZK4xKD3Nd4%253AS%7E

I find these Atlas book maps to be the best scale for trip planning, off course travel and just seeing where I am. A true USGS Topo map is usually 7.5 minutes and great for foot travel.

You should be able to get a close enough if not spot on location for water sources.

[the tortoise]

I am looking for a ride to the start of the AZ 750 for the "grand depart". I live in Southern California (Julian, San Diego County). I would pay for gas, a meal etc. I could get a ride to HWY 8 or HWY 10 as a possibility.
PM me if interested.

[Gimmearaise]

Assuming you mean you want a paper map to back up your electronic device.

You could just print pages off of the screen.

What I have done is make photo copies of the off road atlas pages that I need. http://shop.delorme.com/OA_HTML/DELibeCCtdItemDetail.jsp?forge_prod=RbR9Bw_6g54IciZK4xKD3Nd4%3AS&beginIndex=0&item=72&section=10096&forge_prod_pses=forge_prod%3DRbR9Bw_6g54IciZK4xKD3Nd4%253AS%7E

I find these Atlas book maps to be the best scale for trip planning, off course travel and just seeing where I am. A true USGS Topo map is usually 7.5 minutes and great for foot travel.

You should be able to get a close enough if not spot on location for water sources.

Yes a hard copy. Ill have to take a look at your link.

Thanks,

NEIL

[joeydurango]

I use a similar atlas, but from Benchmark:  http://www.benchmarkmaps.com/products-page/atlases/arizona-road-recreation-atlas

I looked at both in person at my local bookstore and decided on the Benchmark.  Either one is great!  Awesome planning tool, although I wish the AZ versions had the AZT marked - the Colorado atlas has the CT in its entirety.

[AZTtripper]

I use a similar atlas, but from Benchmark:  http://www.benchmarkmaps.com/products-page/atlases/arizona-road-recreation-atlas

I looked at both in person at my local bookstore and decided on the Benchmark.  Either one is great!  Awesome planning tool, although I wish the AZ versions had the AZT marked - the Colorado atlas has the CT in its entirety.

No AZT yet bummer, I was hoping someone would say it's on now. Mine are fairly old but do have the AZT TH's. I bet you can still get pretty close on water stops. The Freeman cache is at the TH so that should be easy enough. Some of the roads that the AZT uses should be on so you can get close that way.

I usually look at these more as a big picture or for off trail navigation. Once your on the AZT I think you would need a more detailed map to navigate by. Pretty sure most of the detour roads should be on the map that's the stuff you need to be able to piece together.

[RossC]

Where exactly is the 'highline trail'. Would Pine to Mogollon rim be a fair summation? About 40 miles?

[AZTtripper]

From the Pine TH to FR 300 at the top of the rim, is 19 miles according to the guide book.

The Highline Trial is the first 16 + miles then you turn up the Devin Trail. A lot of the Devin Trail should be ride-able, then the final push on the Tunnel Trail.

[Beardog]

I rode last year with simple cues and topofusion AZT GPS over a basic AZ map from the Garmin programs - never got lost-highly reccommend it-

The main water problem in my view is the stretch from Flag to GC--the tank has very little water and I carried snow from the backside of the peaks but ran out and was forced to drink cow tank green sludge filtered through a bandanna to make it all the way to Tuczion. This year from what locals tell me is as lean a snow year as we are having here in CO so I would not expect much in the tanks again. The only other problem I think people had last year was at the water stash that is at the road head during the 300 - not much after that so drink hearty and carry at least 2 extra bottles--- I carried 5 at all times on the AZT for fear of running out.

For comfort I highly reccommend drop shiping trail shoes and pack to GC post office-- open everyday but Sun. Makes the hike a much more comfortable experience and you can carry it out to the finish with no problems.


Another unsolicited comment on this thread -- DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE the time it takes to do from Pine to the Rim--I slept about 10 miles from Pine an the final 10 are not easy, great breakfast place just in town and then on to the Highline which is way overgrown with Manzanita and the like and not rideable AT ALL, likely will be flagged for the Zane Grey 50 mile run -- I was wearing my leg and arm warmers and it was like 80 degrees to keep the blood to a minimum --by the time you get through it and to the rideable stretch (where there is a dependable stream by the way) you are beat and strugglling--the last section dragging your bike up the boulder field to the rim is a struggle as well and once you get to the cabin you will be tempted to sleep there but remember that there is raging hanta virus in northern AZ and the cabin is full of mouse shit (it is where I stopped to duct tape my broken derailleur together and realized this as I was falling asleep). This section took me in total like 12 hours but I had a broken rear derailleur -- so am sure the rest of you studs/studettes will do much faster.

Good luck to all --

[joeydurango]

Silly question that I haven't seen before - may have missed it.  For the Big Ditch hike, what counts as "disassembly" as far as the NPS is concerned?  Can I pull the front wheel and strap it to the bike with the rear wheel still in place and strap that whole thing to my back?  Or are both wheels required to be out of the dropouts?  Trying to figure out the carrying system...

[Beardog]

Only your wheels must be off the ground-- I disassembled only by taking off the front wheel laying the bike and front pedal on an internal frame pack (with padded waist strap) and lashed it on with two pieces of webbing I drop shipped to the GC Post office with my shorts and hiking shoes. Others tried to carry it on camelbacks or on their shoulders (I think Mark C wound up that way) and walked in their bike shoes with the cleats taken out. I opted for comfort--well worth the little bit of extra weight. 

I stopped at Fantom for some lemonade (DO NOT COUNT ON FOOD UNLESS YOU BOOK A ROOM THERE) and weighed the whole pack with water and gear at 75 pounds. I have a picture somewhere that a hiker took and e mailed to me but have no clue on how to make it small enough to fit on this website. Just be sure to get ready for the endless dumb questions from the tourists---might want to think about typing up a small sign that says something like "yes I know it would be quicker to ride but the park service prohibits it"

[AZTtripper]

Like everything it seems there really is no one answer. No wheels can touch the ground, but you have to put the pack down at some point.

No rolling, so just taking off the peddles and seat won't cut it. You have to carry not roll the bike.

For a smaller pack it seems like it would be better to have both wheels off.

I think Mark ended up using my shoulder sling method, an idea I got from my LBS guy, carrying the frame like a duffel bag on the side. I just used extra clothes for padding the straps.

Shipping in a larger pack, shoes, and even hiking poles would be nice but then you have the sided trip and time it takes to get to the PO.

[joeydurango]

Tim, I think I'm going to use your method, unless something absolutely brilliant occurs to me (fat chance).  I'm not interested in shipping myself anything, I prefer to finish with the same gear I began with.  Off to the local outfitter for some webbing and buckles... might have to break the sewing machine out tonight.

[AZTtripper]

Tim, I think I'm going to use your method, unless something absolutely brilliant occurs to me (fat chance).  I'm not interested in shipping myself anything, I prefer to finish with the same gear I began with.  Off to the local outfitter for some webbing and buckles... might have to break the sewing machine out tonight.

Cool, I thought the duffel method worked out just fine, I used string from my tarp kit to hold the wheels to the pack, and a simple strap for the frame.

I liked the fact that this kept the whole load lower.

I ended up walking in sandals in the end. I think it would make sense to buy foot wear in Flag or even right there at the South Rim. Light weight trail runners or some good river sandals should be easy to find in either place and not too much to carry on the final leg. These things always wear out and need replacing eventually anyway so it makes sense to me to just buy what you need in route.

[tanman1337]

A couple suggestions on water from my ride last year. That last section before Picketpost TH is a real drainer if you are doing it in the heat of the day. Make sure you take quite a bit of water leaving the Gila River. I figured I only had less than 30 miles left and it wasn't going to be that difficult until the end of the 300 and I ended up running out of water 15 miles before the finish. It was really hard in my delirious state to find that last water spot that was about 7 or 8 miles before the end. I really thought I wasn't going to make it... The biggest mistake I made on the entire race was only having one water container. I started with a 200 oz MSR bag and figured that would be enough for any situation. The problem was that I kept drinking freely and had no reserve bottle of any kind. I highly recommend carrying multiple water containers so that rationing when things get tough or hot is much easier. There were at least 4 times during the 300 that I ran out of water well before I thought I was going to. This time I plan on at least grabbing water where I can even if I don't filter it on the spot, at least if I get in a tight situation again I can always filter it then. Hope any of that helps.

-Tanner

[Gimmearaise]

Thanks for the info, did you only use a filter?

[AZTtripper]

Back in 04 I was so worried about running out of water that I kept a one liter bottle at the bottom of my pack at all times. Never once got so low that I needed it.

By 010 during the 300 I felt confident to leave Parker TH with only 3 liters, 2 on my back and one in a bottle on the bike. At that point I only had light weight food in the frame bag. I arrived at Cott Tank 19 miles later with half the bottle still but my bladder had just gone dry. Note this was for a cold start in the snow. On a hot year I would likely fill the bladder so as to have 4 liters at the start.

Leaving out of Oracle I had 6 liters, one full 100 oz bladder in my pack and then 2 liters fits in a bladder in my frame bag plus the bottle.

For the current course I would fill everything at Kentucky Camp as well. There are a couple of water sources before Colossal Cave but they are either not great water, not reliable or off course and this is a long hard section.

If your willing to take the time to stop and fill up at most of the sources it is possible to travel lighter. Of course the fast guys just ride from spigot to spigot without any filtering.

 

[tanman1337]

Yah all I used was a MSR Hyperflow at Trough Springs last year. I was so desperate at that point though I almost just dunked my head in and started drinking. I looked on the ATA's water source info and it says it is dry right now. Do you know if it is just because it's winter time Tim?

I agree with you Tim completely. I carried wayyyyy too much food at the start and just not enough water. This year I'm only going to carry enough to get me to Patagonia because that little market is definitely enough to keep you supplied until Tucson.

[tanman1337]

Hey quick question for anyone. Last year I was able to print off Pocket Maps from the ATA website. They aren't very detailed, probably about 1:180,000 but they working great as an overview of the course to print off and have with the map cues & GPS. I can't find the pocket maps anywhere now! All I have is the ATA Topo CD and these maps are wayyyyy too detailed to print out all of them. I'm wondering if anyone has a solution to this or still has the pocket maps to share for the whole 750? I really want a good hard copy of overview maps that actually show the AZT like the pocket maps did rather than an atlas

[AZTtripper]

I almost just dunked my head in and started drinking. I looked on the ATA's water source info and it says it is dry right now. Do you know if it is just because it's winter time Tim?

Ha you probably could have just drank it. Either way you would have been home before you could have gotten sick.

So yeah somebody reported Trough Spring dry in November so before the recent rains. Hopefully they got some rain around there and its running again. No guarantee's tho springs are drying up all over.  

I'll see what I can find out about the pocket maps.