AZTR 2013 Planning

[RossC]

Yep both Scott and I feel that giving you a list should be enough to get you started. Sounds like your doing the right thing by starting your planning early. If you work your way thru the water table that will give you a good overview of the course.

Tim,

Can I confirm the water table I linked previously relates to the GPS distances on the 300 rather than the 750. I'm seeing 41 miles to patagonia rather than the 31 miles indicated when using the 750 file.

Thanks for all the advice. I'm off to join the AZTrail.org - cheers for that little piece of wisdom Lynda

[tanman1337]

The reason is the start for the 750 is further. It actually starts at the border, where as the 300 starts at Parker Canyon Lake. I believe that is where some of the discrepancy lies

[AZTtripper]

Yeah the Border start is kinda a prolog I believe.

And yes when you look at #3 and it says 19.5 from the start that's the start of the 300.

It may have been a little dickish but part of the reason for not making it easy to figure out was to make people study the route. Part of that self reliance starts at home concept. Of course every year it will get easier as more intel gets around.

Having the Data Book out there should also help but I know we put a lot of stuff in there that's not included in the race. If you were to ride everything in the Data Book you would be looking at well over 800 miles, and going way out of your way in places. Part of that was to be sure to list every last thing that people can ride if they chose too. And part of that is for people who aren't necessarily thru riding but for people who want to ride everything in segments over time. I know lots of hikers have done it that way, and there are at least a few riders working on riding everything that way as well.

There's a big section North of Picket Post that would add a crazy climb to the course and go way out of the way only to come back down again. This section makes for a great shuttle in the other direction tho.

Keep up on the planning guys and if there are any questions on the Data Book please ask so we can work to make it better over time. Also any thoughts after the fact that could help make it better as well.

Tim

[RossC]

Yeah the Border start is kinda a prolog I believe.

And yes when you look at #3 and it says 19.5 from the start that's the start of the 300.

It may have been a little dickish but part of the reason for not making it easy to figure out was to make people study the route. Part of that self reliance starts at home concept. Of course every year it will get easier as more intel gets around.

Tim

Don't sweat it, I couldn't agree more. Being spoon fed in the lead up doesn't help much when you are all on your own in the middle of no-where mid race.

I knew the 750 started a few miles earlier than the 300 so just wanted to make sure I wasn't dropping way points for water in the wrong spot. That could lead to tears before bedtime!

Cheers,
Ross

[the tortoise]

Thinking about the 750. It sounds like the first 300 is brutal from what I have read. over 45,000 feet of climbing, hike a bike etc. How does the the other 450 miles compare to the first 300?
Anyone have any information, pics etc on packing your bike through the Grand Canyon??

Thanks in advance!

[AZTtripper]

After the 300 there's about 120 of roads a mix of dirt and pavement it's all 2 wheel drive stuff. But then it's back to the HAB big time before and especially after Pine. It gets a little better after you gain the rim but it's never smooth sailing unless your on a snow detour.

Here's the link to my Full AZT Pics thread it's out dated but has the canyon.
http://www.bikepacking.net/forum/index.php/topic,611.msg7568.html#msg7568

Also there should be a How to Carry a Bike sticky in Q and A.

Tim

[Buttermilk]

How to Carry or HAB sticky would be cool.

On the CTR this year I had a trusty piece of adjustable piece of webbing that I would sling my saddle with and hook to the webbing belt on my shorts. I could adjust it's length depending on the steepness and techyness of the climb. I was pretty much able to climb hands free (hands to balance the bike) and transferred the load to my legs. Worked sweet and I'll use it again in a couple weeks on the Coco250.

What have others done. Also I'd like some insight into the Big Ditch carry...

[AZTtripper]

Here's the sticky http://www.bikepacking.net/forum/index.php/topic,90.0.html

As for the Canyon the 21 miles breaks down into 3 segments. It's 7 miles down to the river 7 basically flat miles to Cottonwood Camp and 7 almost all up and out. For my 06 tour I broke it down into 3 days by staying at Phantom Ranch and Cottonwood, most racers just bust it out in a day.

My friend Aleck uses a HAB sling as well but I think he hooks it to his pack. Either way he said it was great on the 300 last year. Not totally hands free in rocky HAB but at least one handed enough to grab a bite to eat while moving.

[Gimmearaise]

A little off topic here, but I'm Considering the 300 this year! Just getting into long rides like this. I finished the CT in 10 days this past August not racing but enjoying it. I guess I'm Curious what kind of terrain I'm dealing with! How would you compare the riding to say......Loma, Moab, Fruita, and Sedona? I live in Crested Butte but wondering where I need to train this winter. Thanks again!

[AZTtripper]

gimmearaise

The AZT is for the most part at lower elevations, the rocks are sharper, and all of the plants have thorns galore. As for training take your bike for a walk, there's a lot of hike a bike.

As to places if your willing to go to Sedona why not just go the extra 3 hours to Tucson. It would be good to see the first 30 miles. Last year some of the slower riders tried to find Trough Spring near the end, ride the last 7 miles as an out and back to the spring. Then you know where it is if you need it.

[Gimmearaise]

Cool great info, thanks. Any particular time i CANT ride the first 30 miles due to weather? I was thinking its year round biking, am I wrong?

In terms of tires how many flats or at least punctures should i expect! i plan on using tubeless obviously! should I add more Stan's to my tires before hand?

As always thanks for the feedback!

[raybum]

Yes...be sure you have plenty of Stans...TONS of sharp stuff in the southern 1/2 of the state.  And bring a couple extra tubes if you're going anywhere remote and some park boots.  Side wall slices are common and many times, a regular boot (like a dollar bill, powerbar wrapper, etc) isn't enough.  I witnessed a park boot patch a 2" slice and subsequently save my riding buddy a 15 mile walk.
I'm a noob to the AZT300, but ridden a lot of the route...the first 30 is a real tester...lots of HAB.  For pure enjoyment and scenery, the last 50 or so miles is awesome...   just bring some long socks since the catclaw is ferocious due to the ample summer rains.

[AZTtripper]

Most of the 300 is doable year round summers not ideal but doable. Spring and Fall are best but winter works I've done the first 30 in mid winter it can be cold. Then again in March it can hit 90 only to snow in April on race day.

You won't go wrong planning a road trip to Tucson. In addition to the AZT there's several other ranges Forest Land and a large County Park. You can climb the 50 year trail to FR slab drops, or do a 60 mile ITT loop of the Tucson Mountains. All of it would be good AZT training.

It's just starting to get nice here, it will be all day riding season in the valley soon, and it will stay that way until race day and a bit.

[Gimmearaise]

noted- bring a extra care for the tires! oh and long socks....does the catclaw die off? how is it in April?

Cool well I'm going to make a trip mid winter and kinda work around the weather! The first 30 miles and maybe the last bit too! any other good sections that are accessible and good section to ride!

Any other things i should know about? I've been reading last years "azt 300/750" thread. good info, especially on water and Route! is everthing the same as least year in terms of route?

Also what bikes do you guys use? i have a trek fuel ex 9.8 120mm front and rear & a Specialized Stumpjumper comp carbon ht 29er! I love both bikes it seems as if its more of a FS trail, am i wrong?

Thanks again!

[AZTtripper]

Cat Claw is a woody plant the never dies.

Trail should stay mostly the same for the 300.

SW of town the Pistol Hill to 3 Bridges section is pretty sweet.

As for bikes the fastest guys are FS for sure weight is an issue but then so are rocks on carbon.

[LyndaW]

it seems as if its more of a FS trail, am i wrong?

Thanks again!

FS is my call too but plenty of people finish this race on all kinds of bikes.

[Gimmearaise]

FS is my call too but plenty of people finish this race on all kinds of bikes.

Well then, I do want to compete as best as I can but I think Ill try them both out this winter when I come visit!

[Gimmearaise]

Whats the situation with snakes and scorpions? not a fan of either! Any encounters, I plan on using a bivy and dont want these guys all over me at night! any other encounter of wildlife on the trail?

Thanks,

NEIL

[AZTtripper]

Whats the situation with snakes and scorpions? not a fan of either! Any encounters, I plan on using a bivy and dont want these guys all over me at night! any other encounter of wildlife on the trail?

Thanks,

NEIL

Snakes start coming out in the day time in early April, for the most part it's still to cold for them at night during race time.

Scorpions really only see them at night. It's possible but rare to have issues with them.

Aleck MacKinnon, one of last years finishers, is just getting over a nasty sting, from s bark scorpion, he got during a Grand Canyon trip. I have heard there are lots of them down there. It must have crawled in while he was out of the bivy. That was a summer trip so again race time is still pretty cold for them. Not that its impossible but so far we haven't heard of any one having issues with them during race time.

As to other critters out there. Max Morris had his helmet straps chewed up by a pack rat, that was farther north on the 750 course. And I had an encounter with a fox south of Picket Post, on a section of trail we no longer use, again it's rare.

[tanman1337]

gimmearaise

The AZT is for the most part at lower elevations, the rocks are sharper, and all of the plants have thorns galore. As for training take your bike for a walk, there's a lot of hike a bike.

As to places if your willing to go to Sedona why not just go the extra 3 hours to Tucson. It would be good to see the first 30 miles. Last year some of the slower riders tried to find Trough Spring near the end, ride the last 7 miles as an out and back to the spring. Then you know where it is if you need it.

I highly suggest riding the last 7-8 miles from the finish as an out and back and finding that spring. I tried finding it while I had been dry on water for about 12 miles at 1 P.M. and it was not cool weather at all. Almost couldn't find it and thought I wasn't gonna make it. It was not a good day for me. I totally underestimated the climbing in the last 25-30 miles of the 300