AZTR 2013 Planning

[tanman1337]

One more quick question, since this is mostly AZ riders mostly watching this all the time. What lube do you think is the best for our super super dusty conditions? Brand and type?

[bartspedden]

The part name for the ss setup is called a single speed tensioner. Here's one example: http://labs.yesspro.com/products/etr-v

As for lube, finish line dry lube has worked well for me, though most dry lunes that I have used have work well too. The only exciting being wax based lubes because they ball up below freezing.

[dream4est]

I am using Squirt lube for Arizona- its doesnt last long but it seems to run pretty clean. I use it in Colorado as well with similar results.

For tires I already have Geax TNT AKA/Saguaro combo on the bike. Saguaro is the only tire I have run without a flat in both the CTR and AZT (Rampage did the same for 900 miles in 2010 but had some slow leaking tubeless issues late in the CTR). I am not going to deal with any more sub750 gram tires for bikepacking.

Logistics? I am coming form Colorado so I am gonna start the feeler process of ride organization.
What I am looking for is someone who wants to meet me at the north trailhead (Stateline) and give me a ride to Parker Canyon Lake or Sierra Vista or Tucson or Flagstaff or ?. I am planning on leaving my car there. Or I would work with someone who wants to leave their car at Stateline and ride with me to start and coordinate a hook up at finish to get back to car in Tucson or ?.

In other news I am done making my first set of bikepacking bags. Finished a frame bag, seatbag "holster" with drybag, gas tank, rear tank, front harness/stem bag with 2 drybag setup, downtube bag and a extra ditty bag up front to house my backpack. 10 bags in all for AZT to carry the canyon hike gear, 190 oz water and wear no backpack. My sewing overall is about a C/C+ the execution and performance are like B+/A-. The sewing improved at the end to a level where I now completely understand how to sew all bags correctly.

I am starting on version 2. Version 1 was ripstop nylon 1.9oz, 4oz polyester, mini cordura rub spot pieces and waterproof polyester with coating for drybags.The front harness design is currently a stem bag with nylon strap for running cables around a lower drybag sandwiched to an upper drybag but the next version will be compatible with both styles- my way and the conventional harness way of cables going above the drybag. I am working on 2 seatbag holster models, one for straight posts and one for dropper posts. Version 1 for dropper posts is pretty money, I can lower seat 4 inches on a full-suss 29er with no tire rub.

Version 2 will be 100% 1.3oz ripstop nylon for all panels and drybags. A little cordura for wear spots. 1/8" ccf foam and 1/16" plastic sheet for stiffeners. I am attempting to design and market a line of superlight race bike bags that wont fail. My current set is over a lb. lighter than comparable conventional bikepack bags and IMO move/sway less than the heavier sturdier bags.

[tanman1337]

Thanks for the single speed tensioner info! Sounds like you have been really busy Mark! I have been getting so excited for the 750. I pretty much have all the gear I need minus a few small things. I'm starting a new job in March after I get out of the military, but so far it seems like they are cool with me taking the time off. I finally just spent the money and got my eVent bivy from Mt. Laurel Designs. I'm really excited about my setup this year.

[tanman1337]

I really like the AKA and Saguaro combo, I just hate how hard the TNT s are to get on and off my Arch's...

[dream4est]

I really like the AKA and Saguaro combo, I just hate how hard the TNT s are to get on and off my Arch's...

Agreed on the TNT. They are nearly impossible to mount on my Roval rims. BUT- they would probably never flat, and on Stans or Roval rims they pump up with a hand pump so repairs of gashes/holes are easy and getting back to tubeless requires nothing but hand pumping. I carry the complete kit to fix tubeless tires on the fly and I am 2/3 fixing them in races with lighter tires so TNT tires are IMO the perfect bikepacking tire. You just have to carry 3 levers and some straps (shoelace, rei velcro, whatever) to remove and remount a bead to install a tube.

[tanman1337]

I completely believe that staying tubeless is the ultimate goal. Can you explain in more detail about the shoelace or velcro part of the operation. I'm very curious

[tanman1337]

In fact..... Since I KNOW you have had many tire issues, especially a few times when we passed by each other last year. Can I ask not only what you are going to carry for tire repairs this year, but what are your steps you wil go through b4 ditching tubeless and throw in a tube? Also, does anyone recommend a heavier type tube rather than bringing along a SLIME tube? I have been trying to just find some thicker tubes and haven't had much luck on the standard parts websites.

[RossC]

Soooooooo..... I went for a 'ride' today and did about 7 miles in the midday sun with the bike on the pack. Initial setup was woeful however I was too stuborn to play around with it. Thankfully I fell flat on my face climbing over a gate which forced a re-jigg of the pack and I found a setup that was about 10,000 times more comfortable.

Now, the reason I was climbing the gate was because I was too wide to fit through the gap that walkers use. Which got me to thinking. All the pictures I've seen of the canyon hike all show a 4 foot wide groomed path. How representative is this of the full length?. If I run the setup as pictured, will I wind up having to squeeze through places that I have no chance of fitting?  Or is smooth sailing all the way? I've left the seat in and it projects from my right side while the forks stick out from the right.



EDIT: Oh, and remember to tighten up your skewer nuts properly before you start hiking. There was only half a skewer remaining when I finished..... imagine if that happened while crossing the ditch!

[dream4est]

Hey Tanner I use the straps to mount the tire. Tie off the tire so you dont have to hold one bead. And I also tie off behind the tire lever as well as I move towards finishing the bead. Makes it way easier for one person to mount a TNT. It helps to have both hands for levers on TNT tire as the hand cant really hold the bead on while you try to lever the tire over the rim. You have to be careful not to get the lever too far into the rim cavity when using it to bead the tire or you will destroy a tube or tubeless rim strip. Steel levers in the shop work best so in the field a short screwdriver off a multi-tool may be needed for final leverage of tire over rim. Again you have to be be real careful with tubes and screwdrivers.

I am going to use my method for tubeless repair from last year with 2 new ideas for covers. I used superglue and electrical tape for patches. One square over damage with glue. Then a couple strips with glue over that. It lasted for 6 days. The problem was covering that "patch" from sidewall rub. Like the mud on day 2 and rock rubs, etc. I used more taped layers and rubber cement. It worked but kept needing repair and it led to the eventual failure. This year I am going to use small pieces of Cordura and Park tire boots for outside patch covers, superglued on. I will also carry the curved needle and kevlar thread, But I think I can patch a 1" gash with my method and a Park boot over. Anything under a half-inch I have covered no problem. Thorn holes are fine with superglue and grit. For grit I use herbs like Catnip or Peppermint dried and ground into dust. Dried plant material seems to work well in the glue dont understand the physics but it works fast.

Since the TNT tire beads with a hand pump I wont carry co2. I will take a Stans bottle, extra valve core and valve core remover. Stans and superglue is nice on pinholes as well. It is my goal to not have a problem with the TNT tires but I will be prepared for anything.

I carry 2 Slime 29er tubes and they seem to handle AZ pretty well unless you run low psi and pinch flat.

[AZTtripper]

Which got me to thinking. All the pictures I've seen of the canyon hike all show a 4 foot wide groomed path. How representative is this of the full length?. If I run the setup as pictured, will I wind up having to squeeze through places that I have no chance of fitting?  Or is smooth sailing all the way?

The trails that the AZT uses in the Canyon are full width the whole way as I remember. The only issue was when I met a mule train at one of the cliff side sections. I was able to get all of my gear and myself out of the way onto a ledge.

[Marshal]

Soooooooo..... I went for a 'ride' today and did about 7 miles in the midday sun with the bike on the pack. Initial setup was woeful however I was too stuborn to play around with it. Thankfully I fell flat on my face climbing over a gate which forced a re-jigg of the pack and I found a setup that was about 10,000 times more comfortable.

Now, the reason I was climbing the gate was because I was too wide to fit through the gap that walkers use. Which got me to thinking. All the pictures I've seen of the canyon hike all show a 4 foot wide groomed path. How representative is this of the full length?. If I run the setup as pictured, will I wind up having to squeeze through places that I have no chance of fitting?  Or is smooth sailing all the way? I've left the seat in and it projects from my right side while the forks stick out from the right.



EDIT: Oh, and remember to tighten up your skewer nuts properly before you start hiking. There was only half a skewer remaining when I finished..... imagine if that happened while crossing the ditch!

RossC, your thinking & prep for the canyon seem right on to me.

Here are some thoughts on packing my bike across the big ditch……..

Yes the trail is basically wide & smooth the whole way—but this can be deceiving.  The grade can be quite extreme both up and down, with water bars & stone steps that require big steps while balancing all your + load weight on 1 foot/leg.  And feet can slip on loose gravel. 
Note--There are lots of sections with some ‘exposure’ that under normal conditions you would never think twice about.  But exhaustion combined with a wide, unsteady, shifting load-- equal a situation where your fork or handlebar could knock against the cliff wall on one side of the trail & perhaps cause a fatal stumble.  That issue stopped me from continuing on into the night more than any other factor.

Side to side ‘stability’ is critical. I never did get my setup fully stabilized and suffered greatly as a result.   Test & mod till you have this nailed. (bty—other than the removed pedal, my set up was exactly like yours-- per your picture—not saying you should change but make sure it tight and can be easily replicated at the South Kaibab Trailhead—and you  might consider removing your seat to narrow up things a bit )
 
Beware of slow load shifting while hiking along.  What seems like the ideal set up might shift & change from the usual sway, off & on during a rest etc etc.  Again test & mod with some real cross country hikes with real elevation change.

Easy on-off— practice rest stops so as to dial in how much ‘effort’ goes into each rest.  One of my biggest mistakes was not packing my load in such a way that I could get it on & off without  excess effort.  Sometimes I had it right, but then my load would shift and the next rest stop became a mini nightmare.  Anyway, as the hike wears on this becomes a bigger & bigger issue.

 Note-there are tons of boulders & rock slabs along the trail --that with the right set up can allow one to ‘sit’ and lift/angle your load up off your shoulders for a real rest without actually taking off your pack.  And if you have food & water handy—well then this type of ‘rest’ can save tons of wasted effort and greatly speed your traverse!!  If I had this fully nailed it would have saved me at least 2-3 hrs.

More on-off  ---my fork, 1 handlebar grip and various parts of my frame took a real beating from rock scratching during my many rest stops. 

Horses—horses (mules) spook when they are exposed to the unexpected—and mtn bikes strapped to a pack fall into their ‘unexpected’ category.  I was told to move off the trail and sit very still by each horse train that I passed on my descent.  Not that you can really control it but a super early (or late afternoon) decent might avoid the horse trains.  Notes-there are no (maybe work only) horse trains on accent- north side while the north rim lodge is closed.

Trail Friendlies & Nazis:  You go from near isolation to mass humanity in a few pedal strokes, what a shock to the system—suddenly you are surrounded by hikers and employees --who for the most part are friendly, intrigued & curious about crazies hiking the canyon with bikes on packs.  During my stop at Phantom Canyon I was mobbed by the curious and basically forced to give an impromptu Q&A session for about 20 hikers & staff.   However, on the other hand you will most likely run into a few who are very disapproving and even threating.  I met a few in this category and even had one canyon ‘volunteer’ with a two way radio try to stop me and make me ‘wait’ till he secured official approval.   I would advise you prepare in advance a tactful, informative response for any who ‘question’ if it’s legal to hike the canyon with a bike strapped to you pack.

Best of luck on your crossing!!!

Marshal

[Marshal]

Hey Tanner I use the straps to mount the tire. Tie off the tire so you dont have to hold one bead. And I also tie off behind the tire lever as well as I move towards finishing the bead. Makes it way easier for one person to mount a TNT. It helps to have both hands for levers on TNT tire as the hand cant really hold the bead on while you try to lever the tire over the rim. You have to be careful not to get the lever too far into the rim cavity when using it to bead the tire or you will destroy a tube or tubeless rim strip. Steel levers in the shop work best so in the field a short screwdriver off a multi-tool may be needed for final leverage of tire over rim. Again you have to be be real careful with tubes and screwdrivers.

I am going to use my method for tubeless repair from last year with 2 new ideas for covers. I used superglue and electrical tape for patches. One square over damage with glue. Then a couple strips with glue over that. It lasted for 6 days. The problem was covering that "patch" from sidewall rub. Like the mud on day 2 and rock rubs, etc. I used more taped layers and rubber cement. It worked but kept needing repair and it led to the eventual failure. This year I am going to use small pieces of Cordura and Park tire boots for outside patch covers, superglued on. I will also carry the curved needle and kevlar thread, But I think I can patch a 1" gash with my method and a Park boot over. Anything under a half-inch I have covered no problem. Thorn holes are fine with superglue and grit. For grit I use herbs like Catnip or Peppermint dried and ground into dust. Dried plant material seems to work well in the glue dont understand the physics but it works fast.

Since the TNT tire beads with a hand pump I wont carry co2. I will take a Stans bottle, extra valve core and valve core remover. Stans and superglue is nice on pinholes as well. It is my goal to not have a problem with the TNT tires but I will be prepared for anything.

I carry 2 Slime 29er tubes and they seem to handle AZ pretty well unless you run low psi and pinch flat.

Tubes—I use to carry slime tubes—till I used one and had it fail/pop.  Talk about a mess, slime makes a truly horrid, nasty mess if you pop a tube.

I now prep my spare tubes with stans.  That way if I ever pop one the clean-up is simple & easy compared to slime.

And while I have no proof-- I think stans seals small holes better than slime—at least that’s my thinking……
 
ohh---and I am envious—enjoy your 2013 750!!

Marshal

[the tortoise]

For the AZ750 start, it doesn't appear that there are any major roads to get there. Can someone with experience please advise??

Thanks much!

[AZTtripper]

For the AZ750 start, it doesn't appear that there are any major roads to get there. Can someone with experience please advise??

Thanks much!

What mapping program are you looking at? In Topofusion, open street map, I can see Montezuma Pass road heading south off of 92 and then West Montezuma road heads into Coronado National Monument. After gong over Montezuma Pass you run right into the course.

Scott never post the actual directions to the starts.

[the tortoise]

What mapping program are you looking at? In Topofusion, open street map, I can see Montezuma Pass road heading south off of 92 and then West Montezuma road heads into Coronado National Monument. After gong over Montezuma Pass you run right into the course.

Scott never post the actual directions to the starts.

I was looking at topofusion. It looks like West Montezuma Canyon Road does indeed bump into the AZT but it appears that you have to ride the trail in about 2 miles before you hit the Mexican border and then turn around and start your race.

[AZTtripper]

I was looking at topofusion. It looks like West Montezuma Canyon Road does indeed bump into the AZT but it appears that you have to ride the trail in about 2 miles before you hit the Mexican border and then turn around and start your race.

Oh sorry yeah that's all road, the Border Patrol has it graded out pretty buff. It used to require a high clearance rig but not any more.

Your first single track comes over by the Parker Lake TH, as your bombing down the hill look for the trail crossing. It is easy to miss. 

[ne14cycling]

Here's a question.  What precautions if any do you take to reduce the risk on being attacked by a mountain lion?  I understand that I'm more likely to die just driving to the event.  I'm just curious.  Particularly while you are stopped and sleeping.

My close friend and cycling buddy was attacked and killed while MTBing in the daytime in California in 2005.  Mark Reynolds RIP

It's a tough one to get out of my head.

I'll be ready for everything else.....I hope 

Cliff
TREK San Diego

[AZTtripper]

Here's a question.  What precautions if any do you take to reduce the risk on being attacked by a mountain lion?

Cliff
TREK San Diego

I carried pepper spray on both thru trips. But when the fox grabbed on to the foot of my bag, my mind just said start flinging him. I didn't think of opening the bag and grabbing the spray, in my pack somewhere, just fling your feet over head and back again. And again until he's off.

Sorry to hear about your friend, I remember hearing about two women who were also attacked  in your area.

There were several sightings here after the big Aspen fire, haven't heard much about them lately.

I never carried anything during the races.

On a related note: there have been Jaguars photographed. This is good news in the fight to stop Rosemont. 

[mb]

Planning for the 300, can anyone give input on 29" tire options for the terrain?   I tend to lean toward minimal size with heavier casings but it looks like the area will be a bit rougher than Georgia or Florida
Thanks shey

Last year was on 26" wheels and used Panaracer Rampage back and front with lots of Stans inside.  I also took 2 slime tubes along as backup.  The Rampages were bomber.  As it happened I could even have left my pump at home.  One full disclosure note is that I did do a very slow AZT 300. Also, on my first bike ride back in Colorado about 2 weeks after AZT I slashed both tires when I took a sloppy line over a known sharp-rocked obstacle.  When I took both tires off it exposed 50+ large Sonoran desert thorns perfectly embedded and pointing up on the inside of my tires..... the Stans had had done a lot of good work for sure.  Good luck and have fun.  Mike