AZTR 2013 Planning

[Marshal]

Tires:
Like any multi-day event the AZT has enough variation in terrain to make all tire choices a bit of a compromise.

But considering that every piece of organic plant life in AZ wants to poke a hole in you or your tires---AZT is the only trail where I got two flats carrying my bike on my shoulder-- hint do not turn sideways into sticky brush and 2 sec later turn the other way looking for the 1st hole only to get a 2nd hiss-poke —oh well stans fixes these type issues with a quick spin of the tire.
And you will see more sidewall chomping rocks in any given 10 miles of single track than most non-AZ riders see in a year of normal riding.

Anyway--Regardless of tire “brand/model”:
a) Start the race with a fresh set, don’t have to be new, but a set with most of the life left in them.

b) Pick tires with a robust side wall and medium to large knobs.  Lots of brands offer their version of the reinforced/Kevlar style sidewall. And for the AZT, in general it’s better to error somewhat towards knobs-for-traction vs the opposite, ie: knobs-for-low- roll resistance.

c) Pick a tire that runs well tubeless, ie: fits sung but not too tight to your particular rims and seals up well with stans.  Note: running stans rims with the special hooked bead makes running tubeless mostly a no-brainer with just about any tire.

d) If you are not currently doing so—run stans and learn the ins & outs of doing so

e) If you have never done so learn/practice repairing a torn side wall with just the materials you plan to have on hand during the race, boot, needle & Kevlar thread, super glue, tape etc etc

f) Carry two tubes prepped with stans (or slime if you prefer 2nd best) and a patch kit, Some carry a entire spare tire—not a bad plan, especially if you run a thinner sidewall tire

In summary it’s not very much which ‘brand/model’ of tire but rather how often, if ever, might you need to fix flats (stans) on the trail and can you fix a sidewall if you need to (skill & luck).

Marshal

[RossC]

But considering that every piece of organic plant life in AZ wants to poke a hole in you or your tires
Marshal

Saw this turn up in my FB feed today "Everything is spikey on the AZT":


Marshal, I remember in your 2012 AZTR wrap up you strongly suggested gaiters to fend off plant life. The above picture got me to thinking about whether I should start with some and assess whether they are of benefit. I can always get rid of them but it's not like I'm going to find a vending machine full of them trailside.

What sort did you use? I'm thinking something like this: http://www.ar.co.za/2011/04/ar-o-gaiters/
a couple of other options:
http://www.moxiegear.com.au/store/gaiters-2.html
http://www.wildfiresports.com.au/vapro-gaiters.html

Too long and therefore too hot? Not necessary and just harden up? A penny for your thoughts....

[Marshal]

Saw this turn up in my FB feed today "Everything is spikey on the AZT":


Marshal, I remember in your 2012 AZTR wrap up you strongly suggested gaiters to fend off plant life. The above picture got me to thinking about whether I should start with some and assess whether they are of benefit. I can always get rid of them but it's not like I'm going to find a vending machine full of them trailside.

What sort did you use? I'm thinking something like this: http://www.ar.co.za/2011/04/ar-o-gaiters/
a couple of other options:
http://www.moxiegear.com.au/store/gaiters-2.html
http://www.wildfiresports.com.au/vapro-gaiters.html

Too long and therefore too hot? Not necessary and just harden up? A penny for your thoughts....

Yuk, you are going to scare off some would be AZT’ers with that picture.  Ya, but it’s not near bad enough to impress the local AZ mtn bike crowd.


For my AZTR 750 I used 3 pieces of non-standard mtn bike clothing

1) I used a light hiking-style gaiter from Mountain Hard Ware.  The one I used is no longer made but similar to what is on their web site.   I sewed on a little Velcro tab/strap so I could snug them down tight around my skinny ankles.  Anyway the ‘brand’ of gaiter is unimportant.   Now I did not use the gaiters to protect me from ankle & shin damage, they were not tall enough to protect my shins but as a by-product they did protect my ankles a bit.  The real reason I used them was to keep dirt, sticks, pebbles etc out of my shoes.  The benefits of doing so are many-- No more stopping to take off & dump out irritating pebbles, I know I saved hours from fewer nuisance stops.  --Mostly clean feet at the end of each day, means fewer blisters (although I did not escape them altogether)--And cleaner feet at the end of the day equal cleaner, longer lasting socks.  At the end of each day I had sweaty but still pretty clean (from a ground-in-dirt point of view) pair of socks.  --I used two pair of smartwool bike wool socks, 1 to ride in, 1 to sleep in.  The riding socks got a rinse out every other day or so till eventually I swapped the sleeping & riding socks as the riding pair sort of wore out during the 750.

2) De Soto Triathlon style leg & arm coolers.  I put them on each morning and never took them off all day long.  They do sort of look silly, white leg stockings on an old man out in the middle of nowhere desert? Ha, but hey we all look a bit homeless after a few days of multi-style racing.  Anyway, again the benefits are multiple—obviously they keep the sun from burning your arms & legs so you can skip the lotion on the arms & legs, which helps keep the dust from mixing in with the sweat—so you finish the day much cleaner so less clean-up & wipe down before sleep—they do keep you a bit cooler --they work pretty good under a rain jacket to reduce that ‘clammy’ feeling.  And best of all they provide a modest amount of scratch protection for both legs/shins and arms (arms take a big hit from desert shrubs if you bend some corners)  I finally ripped my left leg cooler to shreds during the extended, brushy hike-a-bike across the bottom of the Mogolion ridge.  Note: Modest protection means most scratches and skin tears are say 30-60% smaller than they could have been—IE most don’t even bleed but you still get nicked up a bit.--think a mostly clean & slightly scrathed leg in that picture-------.

3) And #3--my most favorite piece of non-standard gear was my Bandoorag with magic cooling crystals.  http://blubandoo.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=1&products_id=7  (Navy Bandanna style for me)
Hey these things really do help a bit with the heat.  Basically they retain water about 2-3 times longer than normal cloth—so a well soaked bandana on the head, under the helmet, takes the edge off the heat quite nicely.  When dry they work like a normal bandana.  Not a magic bullet to kill all heat issues but worth the effort to soak it during most water refill stops and if it’s burning hot-- even a re-soak with precious drinking water –if you are on the close approach to the next water refill spot.

Marshal

oh, & you owe me 3 pennys

[borderlander]

Howdy all,
I live in Patagonia and ride the trail fairly often.  Trail's been great of late, pedaled segment 3 (Canelo Pass to Patagonia) on Wednesday.  I thought I'd pass on a couple of local notes.
The Town of Patagonia, as a AZTrail Gateway Community, will be hosting it's Trails Day/Earthfest on April 20th.  Events, guided walks, hikes, and rides will be available for all ages.  I may guide a ride on all or part of Seg3.  Something to consider for your drivers/enablers anyways.
The USFS has a crew coming down from the NW (per Bernie S.) to work on the Trail in Santa Cruz county.  Getting to Patagonia this year may not be so painful on your tires or shins.
If anyone needs a riding buddy for prerides drop me a line, mbkilleen at hotmail dot com
Cheers,
M

[joeydurango]

Thinking about making the AZTR 750 this year... I've got a couple simple questions.

1. I know it's too early to have a plan for this, but is everyone operating under the assumption that some nice Tucson local will be offering a pay shuttle service to the border?  I'm having trouble figuring out just how to get to the border, short of a silly 800-mile shuttle.  Best I can figure is rent a car one way from Durango to Tucson, then gladly trade some dollars for a ride to the border.  That, or I tack a couple days onto the beginning of the 750 by riding from Tucson down to the start...

2.  This will sound silly to you desert dwellers, but keep in mind I ride in the high country all the time and I take clear, clean water for granted.  Looking at the ATA's water source lists, there are a lot of stock tanks.  I assume with a good filter you are going to be fine, but just for kicks - anyone ever get sick from sharing water with cows n' horses?  Tips on what might be "okay sketchy" and "bad sketchy"?

Thanks!

[Marshal]

Thinking about making the AZTR 750 this year... I've got a couple simple questions.

1. I know it's too early to have a plan for this, but is everyone operating under the assumption that some nice Tucson local will be offering a pay shuttle service to the border?  I'm having trouble figuring out just how to get to the border, short of a silly 800-mile shuttle.  Best I can figure is rent a car one way from Durango to Tucson, then gladly trade some dollars for a ride to the border.  That, or I tack a couple days onto the beginning of the 750 by riding from Tucson down to the start...

2.  This will sound silly to you desert dwellers, but keep in mind I ride in the high country all the time and I take clear, clean water for granted.  Looking at the ATA's water source lists, there are a lot of stock tanks.  I assume with a good filter you are going to be fine, but just for kicks - anyone ever get sick from sharing water with cows n' horses?  Tips on what might be "okay sketchy" and "bad sketchy"?

Thanks!

bike vs hike means maybe 1 stock tank as main plan on 750, all others as back up plan

[Buttermilk]

So with 200oz max capacity it is reasonable to plan on H2O fill-ups at faucets (spigots or C-stores) and only maybe need to use one stock tank? Which tank might that be? I know it all depends on pace, drink rate, heat etc. But for the average pace, is that a reasonable plan?

[AZTtripper]

Last year I posted a water table for the 750 from a bike route rather then hiker perspective. It's on page one http://www.bikepacking.net/forum/index.php/topic,1832.0.html

Note: people did find water in places I didn't have listed. I think it's in Jill's blog that she found Oak Spring near where the Race Course rejoins the AZT south of Pine. From the edge of Payson it's 18 track miles to Oak Spring.

Not that every rider used everyone you'll figure that out as you go thru the list and see how far apart everything is. Slower rider use more then the faster guys of course it's a mater of how much time you want to spend refilling vs how much are you willing to carry.

[bpeschka]

This should be a direct link to the list of water sources that AZTripper posted on 2/15/2011

http://www.bikepacking.net/forum/index.php/topic,1832.msg16841.html#msg16841

Last year I posted a water table for the 750 from a bike route rather then hiker perspective. It's on page one http://www.bikepacking.net/forum/index.php/topic,1832.0.html

Note: people did find water in places I didn't have listed. I think it's in Jill's blog that she found Oak Spring near where the Race Course rejoins the AZT south of Pine. From the edge of Payson it's 18 track miles to Oak Spring.

Not that every rider used everyone you'll figure that out as you go thru the list and see how far apart everything is. Slower rider use more then the faster guys of course it's a mater of how much time you want to spend refilling vs how much are you willing to carry.

[Buttermilk]

Yep, got that water list already. Thanks for building it. Actually, the one I have has 67 supply spots and is for the 750, can't seem to find it again on the forums though.
Been joyfully digging into the route and building up my waypoints,etc for the 750 this year.

[joeydurango]

Ditto on already having checked out your list.  Also ditto on the thanks for building that list, Tim!  Just haven't cross-referenced with the ATA version, which I glanced at quickly.  Just finished a GEarth fly-through of the route... looks tough, especially the southern sections for a mountain guy like me.  Deserts seem forbidding!  A whole new challenge.

Anyone else been reading - with a mix of glee and a sinking gut feeling - about the ever-more-frequent jaguar sightings in the southern AZ sky islands?  It would make the whole thing worth it just to see one - assuming you saw it from a safe distance.

[Marshal]

So with 200oz max capacity it is reasonable to plan on H2O fill-ups at faucets (spigots or C-stores) and only maybe need to use one stock tank? Which tank might that be? I know it all depends on pace, drink rate, heat etc. But for the average pace, is that a reasonable plan?

You got it-- Varying 2-6 L as needed to the next re-fill seems to work well for most AZT racers, 300 or 750

Basically it’s your current location + avg speed + how much water you currently have + some combination of these four tidbits of info:
a) Upcoming re-fill locations
b) Likelihood they going to be there in April
c) Which locations require treatment
d) Hours of operation if applicable

Add it all up and you pretty much know when/where to re-fill and how much to load up with.

[AZTtripper]

Ditto on already having checked out your list.  Also ditto on the thanks for building that list, Tim!  Just haven't cross-referenced with the ATA version, which I glanced at quickly.  Just finished a GEarth fly-through of the route... looks tough, especially the southern sections for a mountain guy like me.  Deserts seem forbidding!  A whole new challenge.

Working on water tables and data books is just another way to give back to the trail I've gained so much from. The last time I did the 300 my plan was to only carry the water that I needed, that shit be heavy man. Leaving Parker with 2 liters on my back and one liter with hydration mix on the bike. 19 miles to Cott tank I ran out of water just before and polished off my mix just as I got there. It's only 12 to Patagonia so less then 2 in the pack and only 1/2 full on the bottle. 

Anyone else been reading - with a mix of glee and a sinking gut feeling - about the ever-more-frequent jaguar sightings in the southern AZ sky islands?  It would make the whole thing worth it just to see one - assuming you saw it from a safe distance.

It is cool that they are still coming into the area, hopefully there are never any problems with them. It would be cool to see one. Rob Brinkerhoff saw the Mountain Lion that I spooked up, I just heard it jumping away in the grass.

[joeydurango]

Just finished several hours' and three nights' worth of heavy-duty studying - using Scott's cues, Tim's ATA bike databook and forum water source list, GEarth, and my GPS.  Scott, gotta say that it would have been a LOT easier with TopoFusion, but I use a Mac.  When you make a Mac version, I will be the first in line to purchase it!

This thing looks like a beast.  Given that it's about -10* and snowing out right now, I'm not sure how to get ready for a monster like this that's only three months away.  24HITOP will help, I guess, kind of like a kick in the rear, assuming I can do a 24 solo having done nothing longer than five hours in the last few months... if nothing else, it will be nice to be somewhere warm for a few days. 

At this point, the entire CT seems like my friendly backyard trail I know every bit of, compared to the AZT.  Funny how the unknown appears more difficult...

[RossC]

Just finished several hours' and three nights' worth of heavy-duty studying - using Scott's cues, Tim's ATA bike databook and forum water source list, GEarth, and my GPS.  Scott, gotta say that it would have been a LOT easier with TopoFusion, but I use a Mac.  When you make a Mac version, I will be the first in line to purchase it!

I'm doing the same here Joey. Thankfully it's been 42 degrees (read 109F) pretty regularly here at the moment so heat acclimation shouldn't be an issue.  Having said that, 8 hours in the heat on the weekend had me waving the white flag! No idea how I will go backing up day in day out if the conditions are brutally hot like 2011.

I'm also a mac user and It sure is a head scratcher piecing together water point waypoints using Tim's water table, google maps and basecamp (with arizona topos). I sure hope i'm putting them in the right places !??! It's a bit nerve wracking sitting on the other side of the world casually dropping gps markers in the middle of a no-where and knowing you'll be very reliant upon them in a few months time. Wouldn't have it any other way though.

Bring on the adventure

[AZTtripper]

Ross

You'll be fine even if you way point is a bit off you can see the windmill from the road.

The idea of the water table not being a way point file was to make you study the map and figure out how far the water stops are apart. If you know that Cott Tank is about 19 miles from Parker TH you'll most likely find it. I'm not going to just give it to people I think you need to study the map and make up your own food and water plan. Some will decide to skip Cott it's less then 30 miles to Patagonia, others may want to go lighter and make the stop.

The only one that's hard to find is the one at Molino, people found that one easily last year, not that the faster riders need it. I'll likely check it again this year, there's a good ride to do right there.

I don't think it will be 109 here in April, 90's are a real possibility tho or snow.

Joey the 24 hours of the Old Pueblo is usually one of the worst weekends of the winter, plan on rain and possible snow. The course out there is nothing like the AZT, the 24HTOP course is mostly buff easy rolling ST or fast straight down and up gas line double track. The gas line AKA "The Bitches" has one nasty spot where people eat shit. If your hammering you hit the up hill with enough speed that you jump the gap. I think you can roll it slow, it's the middle speed the get them, not jumping but going too fast to roll it. There's one short tough climb at the end of the lap and then the rock slab is fun and not even that hard, lots of people take the bypass tho.

The 24 Hour course is 100 percent riding very few walk anything. The AZT is a HAB ride there's a reason why people can ride 300 miles in the 24 HOTP but the AZT 300 takes two plus. As long as your prepared for HAB you'll be fine.

[bncrshr77]

I'm have a macbook pro and I'm using the Parallels VM program with windows XP...  Topofusion pro runs great for me!  If your computer has enough juice to run it I would highly suggest it...  

[joeydurango]

Ross, I haven't been using BaseCamp just because it's such a pain and is pretty damn rudimentary to boot.  Or at least that's my impression.  Since I have a detailed base map on my GPS, I haven't been dropping waypoints in the middle of apparent nothingness - I've been able to confirm topography, trail contours, or place names for everything.  Depending on what kind of margin of error you think you're working within, it's probably fine though - within sight distance, no problem, but if you're a mile off or something that could spell trouble!

Tim, I've been to the 24HITOP three times before and lucked out, weather-wise, every time.  I've heard a lot of horror stories about the terrible weather years but so far I've missed it... fingers crossed!  And I am absolutely aware that the 24HITOP course is nothing like the AZT - thanks for the heads up though.  It would be a hell of a rude awakening to expect that and get primitive HAB instead, eh?  Thankfully for me, I don't consider it a real mountain bike ride unless I've done some pushing... the below photo is from a local ride last summer.  Not desert, but HAB a-plenty.  That's not looking off the trail, that IS the "trail".

[RossC]

Ross

You'll be fine even if you way point is a bit off you can see the windmill from the road.

That's what i figured. I've cross referenced it as best as possible so I'm confident they are in the ballpark. The waypoints are really just another backup option to supplement a hardcopy of the water table as well.

[AZTtripper]

Nice trail Joey reminds me of Boulder Creek, the one section of AZT that Scott lets you guys skip over.

I've seen Mac's Basecamp and yes it's pretty basic.

Just over 3 months to go.