AZTR 2014 Planning

[mb]

Hey Scott I see you have set a suggested start date of Friday April 11th, for the 2014 edition.

I'm thinking of doing a simultaneous start from the Utah border and riding it to Superior. So maybe we can call that an “AZT 450b”. I’m interested to know if there is any reason to avoid travelling southbound at this time of year. Also, forum users and AZT die-hards, let me know if there are any others are interested in joining me in this backward quest?  The truth is that the AZTR is a bridge to far for me although I remain excited to bikepack the entire AZT in some way. I’m at this point not making any assumptions that it will be tracked.

Cheers

Mike

[schillingsworth]

Mike,
I'd be willing to bet there will be a good deal of snow up on the Kaibab & possibly the SF Peaks starting early in April. I don't think any of the past 750 attempts have been able to ride the AZT from the North Rim to Jacob Lake and they typically arrive at least a week into the race. Since Superior is your finish line, if possible, start in May. Most of the 450b is higher elevation & cooler temps, plus the desert riding is mostly on forest roads minimizing your time in the heat. It also gives some of the high sections of AZT time to dry out, there can be sticky death mud on stretches of the AZT up north (North of Flagstaff & Anderson Mesa in particular). Just a thought.

[mb]

Mike,
I'd be willing to bet there will be a good deal of snow up on the Kaibab & possibly the SF Peaks starting early in April. I don't think any of the past 750 attempts have been able to ride the AZT from the North Rim to Jacob Lake and they typically arrive at least a week into the race. Since Superior is your finish line, if possible, start in May. Most of the 450b is higher elevation & cooler temps, plus the desert riding is mostly on forest roads minimizing your time in the heat. It also gives some of the high sections of AZT time to dry out, there can be sticky death mud on stretches of the AZT up north (North of Flagstaff & Anderson Mesa in particular). Just a thought.

Thanks, sounds like more than a few shillings worth I need to take heed of. I like what I hear about the higher elevation and cooler temps so I think I will look to set a later start date. This will also give me some extra time for my preparations as I am based in Denver.

[AZTtripper]

Assuming this is the same Mike B who did the 300 a couple of years back?

If your looking to put the whole AZT together in more then one ride I think I would skip the Canyon Death March. Lots of hikers do the trail one segment at a time. My thinking would be to ride from the South Rim to Picket Post. Starting a little later then the race but within tracking time if that's something that matters to you. Then you could do a Canyon hike at some time with out a bike! Then on another trip pick up all of the stuff up north when you can actually ride the trails. Doing the whole Kaibab Monster Cross plus the stuff down to the State Line and back would be a worthy trip all by itself.

Also we have been working on a new North to South route for AZ. Schilling, Rayban, and others have contributed tracks for an AZT/BCT combo route. The Black Canyon Trail is mostly new trail running parallel to I-17 and is up to 70 miles completed. This route starts the same as the Coconino Stage race out of Flagstaff and thru Sedona then cuts south to pick up the BCT. This skips the worst HAB and a lot roads that the AZT uses to bypass Wilderness. After the BCT the route will use Phoenix area trails to get over to the AZT. Finishing in Tucson after riding up the control road on Mt Lemmon and then down the Lemmon Drop trails.  I am planning to do this route starting along side the Coco riders this Oct. 11. Along the way I plan to work out a cue sheet for an official route. Not sure I'll make it a set race or just let riders ITT if they want to.

Best of luck with what ever you decide to do.

Tim

[mb]

Assuming this is the same Mike B who did the 300 a couple of years back?

If your looking to put the whole AZT together in more then one ride I think I would skip the Canyon Death March. Lots of hikers do the trail one segment at a time. My thinking would be to ride from the South Rim to Picket Post. Starting a little later then the race but within tracking time if that's something that matters to you. Then you could do a Canyon hike at some time with out a bike! Then on another trip pick up all of the stuff up north when you can actually ride the trails. Doing the whole Kaibab Monster Cross plus the stuff down to the State Line and back would be a worthy trip all by itself.

Also we have been working on a new North to South route for AZ. Schilling, Rayban, and others have contributed tracks for an AZT/BCT combo route. The Black Canyon Trail is mostly new trail running parallel to I-17 and is up to 70 miles completed. This route starts the same as the Coconino Stage race out of Flagstaff and thru Sedona then cuts south to pick up the BCT. This skips the worst HAB and a lot roads that the AZT uses to bypass Wilderness. After the BCT the route will use Phoenix area trails to get over to the AZT. Finishing in Tucson after riding up the control road on Mt Lemmon and then down the Lemmon Drop trails.  I am planning to do this route starting along side the Coco riders this Oct. 11. Along the way I plan to work out a cue sheet for an official route. Not sure I'll make it a set race or just let riders ITT if they want to.

Best of luck with what ever you decide to do.

Tim

Thanks Tim.  Yes it's the same Mike B from AZT 300 2012 edition.  I guess this adventure has begun with lots to figure out.  I think it would be fun to be riding sometime in the AZTR tracking window. An ITT is fine by me. My main objectives are to give myself an big hairy challenge and to traverse and experience this wonderful terrain and landscape. I'm  also planning a trip to Black Canyon Trails area in late January or early February.

[AZTtripper]

Mike

BCT should be nice that time of year cool short days but long cold nights.

I guess I just can't see hiking the canyon with your bike if your not doing the full AZT all in one push.

That's part of the motivation for the Flagstone 500 course. Also Flagstaff and Tucson have an existing shuttle service so that will help people with logistics. And then the BCT offers more trail and less road as well as better trail then the AZT north of Payson.

Glad to hear your coming back for more.

Tim

[Buttermilk]

Tim, glad you're mapping out an AZT alternative. I have tried to make the AZTR for the past two years to no avail. This might make my long awaited riding in AZ a reality. I look forward to your report and maps for your Oct. ride. Have fun! I might see you at the Coco start.

[bmattingly]

Just wanted to respond to questions about a N to S push in April.  I agree with AZ Tripper that the Canyon hike would be best for the full enchilada.  Our winters are unpredictable in Northern Az.  I think fall is a good time to ride the Northern sections of the Route.  I'm planning a N to S ITT of the 750 in early October in about 5 weeks. Weather is usually pretty good in early October.  Heads up, this is the wettest Monsoon season I remember in years and trail erosion exists in places.  There is a 7 foot deep washout, straight down about 3 feet wide just east of the AZT big sign by Babbit Ranch.  The washout is fairly new.  Would hate to ride into that in the dark.  The single track south of the Canyon is in very good shape.  Someone recently did some nice cleaning work.  Russel tank is almost dry but there are cattle ponds that are overfilled in places.  Many logistics to consider.  A major one for me if getting the time off work.  Cool to hear about the new 500 mile route.  Where will that end?  Tucson?

Brad from Flagstaff

[AZTtripper]

Brad

Yes the 500 mile route will end in Tucson with whats called the Lemmon Drop trails. Some of these trails are already or will be signed as AZT as a Wilderness bypass. After climbing the Lemmon via the Control Road, no way I'd go up Oracle Ridge, and then dropping into Summerhaven the route picks up ST and gets HABy. The Lemmon section will likely be the most technical of the whole route with plenty HAB, but the highway is right there and people can always just bail to town.

The BCT has looked like a good option for years, just now getting long enough to really be viable tho. It just seems like a much better way thru the middle of the state. Also as Troy from Flagstaff said "I can't see riding across the state and not going thru Sedona". Back in 06 Troy and his crew ended up east of I-17 on a two track the required some bushwacking.

If there's enough interest for this I'll make it a race for next season. Seems to late now for a race and I don't have time to do a cue sheet. If I am to make this a race I want to be sure I have all of the turns thru Phoenix documented. For the full state line to border route with the BCT we're looking at 800 miles.

Mike sorry your thread is getting hijacked. Maybe I should start a new thread.

Tim

[the tortoise]

Tim,

Let me know when you have some stuff together. Do you plan on a Superior to Black Canyon connecting section?? I do want to do a border to border probably next April but I want a little "easier" route.
I think ending in Kanab Utah would be a nice thing since there are some services there.
The AZT 750 is a little too manly for me!

[AZTtripper]

Rich

Sent you the current track.

[mb]

Brad

Yes the 500 mile route will end in Tucson with whats called the Lemmon Drop trails. Some of these trails are already or will be signed as AZT as a Wilderness bypass. After climbing the Lemmon via the Control Road, no way I'd go up Oracle Ridge, and then dropping into Summerhaven the route picks up ST and gets HABy. The Lemmon section will likely be the most technical of the whole route with plenty HAB, but the highway is right there and people can always just bail to town.

The BCT has looked like a good option for years, just now getting long enough to really be viable tho. It just seems like a much better way thru the middle of the state. Also as Troy from Flagstaff said "I can't see riding across the state and not going thru Sedona". Back in 06 Troy and his crew ended up east of I-17 on a two track the required some bushwacking.

If there's enough interest for this I'll make it a race for next season. Seems to late now for a race and I don't have time to do a cue sheet. If I am to make this a race I want to be sure I have all of the turns thru Phoenix documented. For the full state line to border route with the BCT we're looking at 800 miles.

Mike sorry your thread is getting hijacked. Maybe I should start a new thread.

Tim

OK, so based on all the good bits of info I have thus far, my hatching plan is possibly starting at the AZTR route from the North Rim, following the Coconino Stage race route out of Flagstaff, through Sedona then south to pick up the BCT. Then Phoenix area trails to get over to the AZT.  I'm assuming this would still bring me out North of Picketpost where I plan to end this adventure.  Tim could you also send me what you have got so far.  I just set my email address to visible.  I'd also be happy to contribute to the route logging during my quest.

[schillingsworth]

Mike,
The Flagstone500 route will put you at the Picketpost trailhead, you get to ride that last 2 miles of AZT singletrack into the finish!! It's really a fine route, I think it'll be a hit!!

Tim,
Thought you may find this funny. I mentioned this route to a co-worker, telling him it starts in Flagstaff and ends in....before I could get Tucson out of my mouth, he says 'Tombstone!!' Ha! Hmmmm.

[the tortoise]

Tim, Thanks for the gpx file. I converted it to a KML in Topo Fusion and viewed it in Google Earth. Looks like a great route! I noticed from Phoenix to Tucson the route was a straight line. Still more work to do or was there a file problem??

[AZTtripper]

Rich, sounds like the file got truncated. I'll resend the second half.

You'll likely want to ride the highway down Mt Lemmon.

The end of the Flagstone is highly technical with plenty of HAB.

[YuriB]

It appears to be my year to try the 300 again. I'm leary of the heat that did me in during the 2010 race so I'll be doing an ITT the last week of March and will roll the dice on Mt Lemon conditions.

[mb]

  Alright, I have been pondering over this 450b option and have put together route using; advice from experienced locals on this forum, Tim’s Flagstone 500 Route, Scott’s 2013 AZTR Route, and TopoFusion.

The result is a 454 mile Route that that has 49,200' of climbing, and 55,110' of descending.

The route takes in the AZTR route (in reverse), starting at the North Rim. It then splits off the AZTR route at Mormon Lake (SE of Flagstaff) and heads West towards Sedona before turning South to take in the Black Canyon Trail. A skirt around the Northeastern side of Phoenix will bring it back to the AZTR route and on to the finish at Picketpost Trailhead, which is of course the finishing point for the northbound AZT 300.

There is also an alternate option to start at the Grand Canyon South Rim.  This will make it a 435 mile route with 40,590' of climbing, and 45,440' of descending.  I’m personally going to leave the start point decision for later. It will depend on interest from others, how my training and preparations are progressing, and of course the weather and trail conditions.

I haven’t pegged a start date yet. I’d ideally like to do a simultaneous start with the AZTR or AZT 300 (7 or 9 AM on Friday, April 11th) although I still need to check into this.

Let me know what you think, and if anyone is interested in taking this one on. At this point I have one Colorado MTB buddy who has expressed serious interest.

Cheers

[AZTtripper]

Mike

Just an FYI the North Rim road doesn't open until May 15th.

I had thought that was a typo, thought you really meant South Rim. I considered starting the Flagstone up at the South Rim. It would make for a nice starting point. The down side for the long term course was that it added another leg to the shuttle.

For the North Rim I've been thinking about doing a 200 mile version of the Kaibab Monster Cross in May. In the past it was always in June. My thinking is that by going in May I can work it out to spend one night at the Rim. There's a sweet campsite, the group site, that they let people use as the off season site. It's literally right on the rim. I've always thought it would be cool to camp out there the night before the park opens. Lately they have been pretty much sticking to May 15.

Starting from the State Line, a place that's not too hard to get to and super scenic, there are roads that get you up to Jacob Lake. From there it's the standard KM loop out to the Rainbow Rim. Then somehow get from the end of RR to the Park, several road options including the main paved one. Then the AZT all the way back to the State Line.

I've used the campsite out at the North Rim twice, it would be even sweeter if the stores were all open in the morning.

Tim

[mb]

Thanks Tim.

That certainly settles the start point decision. Here are snapshots of the now 435 mile route starting at the South Rim. It shows 40,590' of climbing, and 45,440' of descending.

[ScottM]

Hey guys,

Just wanted to drop a note that we have a northbound AZT ITTer out there right now.  It's Brad Mattingly, who has finished the 300 in the past.

http://trackleaders.com/aztr13i.php?name=Brad_Mattingly

His original intent was to ride N->S, but then the gov't shutdown and with it the canyon.  He switched to northbound and hopes that'll buy him enough time for the government to get its act together.  Fingers crossed he doesn't just have to end his ride in Flagstaff (where he lives).

He's getting some pretty mild early October weather right now, it looks like.  Go Brad!