AZTR 2016 changes and rules

[ScottM]

Hi everyone,

I've got the start date for 2016 set at April 15th.

I have a few questions for people and didn't want to muddy up the 2015 race discussion thread.

First, a rule change I already made on the site.  Previously the rule was "no motorized transport" without exception.  I've changed it to allow transport to any hospital or medical clinic.  I want to make the decision for people to seek help as clear as possible: if you think you need help, you should seek it.  Should you be able to continue, great.  Start pedaling where you left off in order to fulfill the first rule of completing the route under your own power.  Best to document this with a GPS or SPOT Track, if possible.

Second, what do people think about starting an hour earlier?  Every year people want to jump the 9am 300 start gun, worrying about heat in the Canelos.  Would 8am make more sense?  That would mean starting the 750 at 6am, which is probably still doable and it is light by then.  It's become more and more popular to camp at or near the start, rather than drive from Tucson, so perhaps an earlier start makes sense?

Third, there were lots of reports of race stalking and trail magic this year.  If you thought it was excessive in 2015 I would appreciate hearing from you.  This is probably best left off-forum, so send me an email - smorris@topofusion.com

But I'd love to hear thoughts on the first two items, or anything else you might have as a suggestion for next year.

Thanks.

[JosiahM]

I just wanted to give you a shout out for suggesting that first rule change.  I think this is a great change.
There should be complete support for all racers to make the right decisions regarding their health and safety.
Therefore racers should never have to make a decision on whether to seek medical help based on fear of relegation.
We all say that we expect everyone to make the right decision for their own health/safety when they are out there, but sometimes that vision can be clouded by how hard they have worked to get that far and not wanting it to be for nothing.
This proposed rule change would help make the right decision a little easier should the situation arise.

[joeydurango]

Starting an hour earlier makes sense to me.  9am seemed a little late, and compared to the 4am Durango start for the CTR, 6am for the 750 riders should be no big deal.    Were I riding the 750, I'd want to start earlier than 7am anyway.

The heat was obviously no big deal this year, but if were going to be super hot out, I could see an earlier start being great for that reason as well.

[mountainjah]

I think this is a great change.
There should be complete support for all racers to make the right decisions regarding their health and safety.

 +1

Starting an hour earlier makes sense to me.

+1.....and racers, please shut every gate behind you.

[rick miller]

Yes, yes, and yes

[ScottM]

Thanks for the feedback so far, everyone.

Further question:  Did anyone notice lots of gates left open?  I'm trying to figure out if it was a small number of riders failing to close gates, or widespread.

I forgot to mention the 'rule' at the start, which is that unless you can actually see a rider coming up behind you, close the gate.

[joeydurango]

I saw an awful lot of gates open.  Thing is, I was raised to "leave a gate as you found it", so if I came across one that was open, I left it open, unless there was a sign specifically saying to keep it closed at all times.  Wasn't sure how many of those were supposed to be open, though.

[Rorr]

Didn't see any left open, but some of the fence gates were down and broken from rotten wood not from riders.

[AZTtripper]

It's not just a race rule its the law in AZ, and you can be held financially responsible if you leave a gate open and a cow causes an accident. Not that very many AZT gates lead to open highways. Leave them as you find them is very much a ranchers credo but usually if it's just a wire gate then the gate will be pulled back to the fence line and obvious. During the race I would assume any open gate to be riders. I would think you would want the rider behind you to have to stop and deal with the gate. A hand full of big zip ties and you could really slow down the competition.    

[mikepro]

I agree with health/safety rule.

I agree with earlier start, although I've had no issue with starting the 750 at 7am the past 2 editions.  To add another thought: I suggest starting both races at the same time.  The 2hr difference doesn't make much sense to me.  Maybe it's for the social aspect of people at PCL TH wanting to meet the 750 riders as they roll through?  But, I prefer the 300 riders to get out in front from the start, not have to pass 20-30 riders in the Canelos, and I think it would make for easier time comparisons at the PP 300 finish and easier to grasp/follow for those watching from home.

For gates, in my 300 experience this year: metal rail ones swinging on hinges were never found open (as far as I can lucidly remember); on the other hand, the barb wire ones where there's a loop at or near the ground to set the gate post into and then move the top of the gate post closer to the fence post and flip another loop over the top to finish closing the gate - I rode up to something like 5 or 6 of those open and laying on the ground.  Of those, I couldn't make up my mind and opted for "leave gate as you found it - other riders are coming within xx amount of time".  But, now I'm second guessing that approach.  I don't recall seeing very many 'please close gate' signs, either way. Of course, the slick counter-weighted gate in the Boulders segment was closed, and closed very quickly after passing through.  Also, since I'm talking gate details, there were 3 or 4 with a chain and dog-leash snaphook where the chain was short/tight and hard to clasp, and when I came up to the gate it was closed but the chain was simply draped around the gate without snaphook engaged.  Then there was one (I-10 underpass?) where the thumb slide part of the snaphook was sheared off and it was a bugger to undo without that piece of metal - had to use my finger nail to get started on opening the hook.

[Rorr]

I totally agree with Mike P. About start times, I did not really enjoy the 300 people blasting by on their light rigs while I was struggling with the Canelos.

[mtnbound]

What about starting the 300 an hour after the 750? If it is for the benefit of the spectators, the 1 hour difference will allow people wanting to go to the start of both races to watch both.  For those spectators watching the 300, they will only have to wait a short time to see the 750 racers come through.  It looks like 750 racers get to the 300 start around 1hr 20 min to 1hr 40 min after they start, so spectators at the start of the 300 will only have to wait about a 20-40 minutes to see the 750 racers. 

If the delayed time is to spread the racers out before passing begins, the one hour difference in start time should be enough: 1) so the fast 300 racers won't have to worry about passing any of the 750 racers and 2) to allow the 300 racers to spread out a bit so it will be easier for the fast 750 racers to pass the slower 300 racers.

Of course, the timing of the start all depends on the purpose. Regardless, moving up either race to an earlier time does seem better all around.

The health/safety rule is great and should be added to all bike-packing races. 

[rick miller]

+1

[JosiahM]

Didn't see any left open, but some of the fence gates were down and broken from rotten wood not from riders.

There were a couple times where I left a gate open right after passing another racer for the courtesy of not wanting to be the jerk who closed the gate on someone.  But now after reading how other people may have left them open because that's the way they found them, I can see how we could cause issues by trying to be 'nice'.
I did do some gate work on a few 'stick and wire' gates where the sticks had broken so they couldn't be tied to close anymore...  hopefully the fixes didn't come apart the next time the gates were opened!
I especially like those 'stick and wire' gates where the wire loop that goes over the post is made of barbed wire.  Those guys surprised me a couple times when I went to try to grab the wire loops!

[mikepro]

I especially like those 'stick and wire' gates where the wire loop that goes over the post is made of barbed wire.  Those guys surprised me a couple times when I went to try to grab the wire loops!

Ha.  I remember one like that, too.  I thought 'really, a barbed loop?'.  Then I looked on the other side and the loop on that side wasn't barbed.  Subtle.

Then, of course, there was me at the top of Molino climb, tired, in the dark, walking so Dyno-powered light not too bright, looking at the ground with my headlamp, and 'hey, look, another gate'.  Followed by 'oh, look, a zig-zag walk-through'.  So, I proceed to walk a wheelie the bike through the zig-zag so I don't have to mess with gate, and snag the rear pouch on my backpack on barb wire during the u-turn.  Riiiiippp.  Oops.  Back up half-a-step to unhook it, negotiate the rest of the zig-zag a little slower.  Then, once through and collecting my thoughts and inspecting backpack damage ... turn my head and shine headlamp a few feet further down the fence line on of those metal grate pass-through ramps I could've ridden over with no issue.  Doh!  Gates with the ramps next them were the best, but exist only btwn Italian Trap and Mt Lemmon road?

[krefs]

I agree with all the rule changes...good calls in my opinion.

As for gates, I came across quite a few that had been left open ahead of me by hikers apparently. Every gate I encountered out near Chiva Tank was opened with no obvious bike tracks. So there were definitely a few other trail users out there leaving gates opened.

I remember from when I did the 750 encountering some gates across dirt roads north of the Peaks that were so tight I could barely open them with my exhausted arms. And I failed miserably getting them closed. And I *hate* the gates with barbed wire loops. That's just not cool if you're not wearing thick leather work gloves.

[JosiahM]

I agree with all the rule changes...good calls in my opinion.

As for gates, I came across quite a few that had been left open ahead of me by hikers apparently. Every gate I encountered out near Chiva Tank was opened with no obvious bike tracks. So there were definitely a few other trail users out there leaving gates opened.

I remember from when I did the 750 encountering some gates across dirt roads north of the Peaks that were so tight I could barely open them with my exhausted arms. And I failed miserably getting them closed. And I *hate* the gates with barbed wire loops. That's just not cool if you're not wearing thick leather work gloves.

Yeah some of those gates up north are super tight.  I resorted to trying to figure out a way to lift my bike over one of them, which I deemed impossible.  I had to give opening the gate another try and ended up breaking the 'stick' portion of the gate because the wire was so tight and had to try to repair it to get it to close.  I concluded that the posts are not set in concrete and that, over time, the tension of the fence they are holding up causes the post to pull towards the fence and away from the gate.
Does anyone know if the ATA takes responsibility for repair on any of these gates or if it's all on the ranchers, etc, to maintain them?  I honestly felt bad about the condition that some of those gates were in and wondered if there were any plans for maintenance.

[ECEGatorTuro]

+1 for both things. Those are nice changes!!

As for the gates, during my short ride out there, I came across several open gates in the Canelos. I knew that I was far behind the pack so it's not like someone was leaving them open for riders behind them. I've always shut gates when passing through them if they were left open unless they were intentionally tied open.

[SlowRide]

I like the rule changes. Safety first.

I'd agree that having the 300 riders coming through was distracting, an hour earlier start for the 300 sounds right, I didn't think the 7:00 start needed to be earlier for the 750.

In regard to gates, I found so few left open that the 3 or 4 I came upon that were actually open in 750 miles I left open. I didn't see any that were left open with an "always close" sign.

[AZTtripper]

I believe gate maintenance is a mixed bag, depending on land management, if by up north you mean on the Babbitt Ranch then I think those are their's. Otherwise the ATA should have some ability to do maintenance. I was up on Mica Mountain the other day and met a guy hiking out to take a picture of the a gate up there, the ATA is on some new kick to make them all 6ft wide for pack stock. Up there I can actually see it. I would think it would be better if they worked on getting ride of redundant ones or the bike cattle guards hikers can use them also. Cowboy wire gates are the worst but barbs have no business on the wire you handle.