AZTR Rules Carousel

[SlowRide]

Lael finished her 800 ITT a bit ago, about 2h 20m ahead of Nate's winning time from last October.
Rules. The AZTR has them and enforces them. Rule #2 explicitly states no media crews & no record will be acknowledged if a media crew is used. There's also a visitation rule which states excessive use may result in relegation. Unfortunately this too occurred over the entire 800 miles.
Lael's finish time of 9d 8h 24m will be noted, but not recognized as the record for violating the above rules.
I know a lot of you are very passionate about these events, keep it civil.

Thank you for enforcing the rules John, I am in full support of you and this decision. Rules are rules, Lael knows these rules, and they were broken.

[taprider]

Why didn't Lael sign on to Trackleaders as an orange dot to start with, and save her reputation and everyone else all the hassle and drama?

[SlowRide]

Why didn't Lael sign on to Trackleaders as an orange dot to start with, and save her reputation and everyone else all the hassle and drama?

Wondered that myself since she obviously knew there was going to be visitation and a crew. Seems like it would have been the logical choice to do that and go for the FKT instead of calling it the AZTR800 which she clearly knew she'd be outside of the rules for.

[Bigbuck]

Super whack decision. Y'all do have it out for Lael. All you petty-ass dudes who cant accept that a woman can beat you.

1) no one HAS to take their own pictures and video content. So saying she has an advantage cause everyone else has to take their own pictures is so stupid.

2) There is no PROOF that the media team aided her in any way. y'all are basically saying, "well they MUST HAVE helped, how could a pitiful WOMAN ride that route so fast, huh!?" G T F O H

3) This film is gonna get more people stoked to Bikepack, more people stoked to get involved with the trail, and more people enjoying this activity. (Oh noooooo i hear your secret special he-man woman hater club trembling!)

4) its a stupid rule. and i feel like im crazy. I watched a Salsa-cycles produced film of Jay Petervary ITT FKT on the Divide. I had to sit through some loser crying on the phone to his wife and then dropping out and riding in the media car interviewing Mike Lee while he was having a breakdown lamenting the end of his life because of his soon to be 1st kid in some film - oh yeah Ride the Divide. Did I make all this up? I think it happened, you can still find these things on the internet. So what changed? ah, yes, its the woman...the QUEER woman who is out to beat men's records and y'all cant handle it. admit it

[phatmike]

As much as people like to bring the whole "have it out for Lael/women" thing into it, I don't know how valid that really is. In fact, I believe it is very possible to both think that Lael had amazing and fast ride out there and also broke the "no media" rule. I have no info on any other support being offered, but the no media thing is clear.

So in this version of reality, based on these facts:
1. Lael executed a brilliant AZT ride following the established AZTR route at a blazing fast pace (can't dispute this)
2. Lael broke the "no media" rule (also can't dispute this)

This would mean that in the context of the known self-supported guidelines she is DQ'd from having the FKT for a self supported AZTR run. I'm bummed about it to be honest because I was rooting for Lael the whole time.  I hope to watch her crush events in the future. Guess I'm a hater, so come at me I suppose.

Just wish the "everyone hates Lael" energy/crowd came up BEFORE she did something amazing (yet controversial based on the two facts above)

[AZTtripper]

Bigbuck Super whack decision to come on here and put down the guy who puts in hundreds of hours of work for no financial gains, and he's been beat by woman in every event he's been in pretty sure he's used to it.

If the professional bikepacker has to have content to generate revenue, the professional film crew had two years to figure out a way to create content within the rules of the race. The non event race the only exist on one persons blog.

The comments from the current as well as past women's record holders seem to side with the no media crew ruling.

If the rules regarding pro's vs amateur bikepacker's still need to be fleshed out then I am sure we have the right man for the job to figure it out. 

[SlowRide]

I've known John Schilling for quite a few years at this point and know him as nothing but a fair-minded, honest and unbiased person who has a passion for bikepacking and has contributed to the sport infinitely and selflessly. There is no way this is against a single rider and certainly is not about Lael being female. No one who has posted is a "He-Man" type rider as Bigbuck stated, we've all been beat by numerous incredible females and I can say for myself that the women of ultra racing have always garnered huge respect from me. I may have completed the Triple Crown of Bikepacking, but I'm not one of the fast guys, hence my handle of "SlowRide" on the forum here.

There have been brilliant videos of the AZTR750 taken from selfie sticks and go-pro type cams, I can remember one of the Aaron's posting a wonderful one circa 2014 that he did (if memory serves) from near the front of the pack.

Bigbuck, please look at all the posts here, you are the only one who typed anything derogatory or aggressive, all of the other posts are quite calmly stated and objective. "Pitiful woman" was only typed by you and it sickens me to quote it right now. Also, just because a thing has been done wrongly in the past and was let to fly does not mean it should be done that way again. We all know the rules going in, visitation is not permitted, media crews are not either. These rules were plainly broken and I for one am thankful that we have a RD that is willing to enforce the rules.

Ride on everyone.

[taprider]

Is there a correlation?
Along the x-axis Watchers/Fans who have never bikepacked at one end and Pointy-End-Racers at the other end,
And the y-axis would represent how highly each individual would rate the importance of the *

Of course even if there is some correlation, there will be some outliers. As well, the number of Watchers would dwarf the number the Racers

[schillingsworth]

he's been beat by woman in every event he's been in pretty sure he's used to it.

Thanks?? Haha!! Totally the truth too!!

I guess I had it out for the dudes in 2019, when I relegated three guys including the winner of the 750 who flew in from Israel. But he rode through an official forest order closure for logging, perhaps I should've let that slide.

Before you come on any platform with posts like that, perhaps do a little more research. It would be beneficial to all involved.

[AZTtripper]

John
Sorry you had to play the villain, hopefully the vid will be great maybe fully supported will be the next big thing in thru biking. Someone could easily get fkt for multi sport trail run/bike the full AZT with support, run the wilderness bike when legal, AFAIK it's never been done so all you have to do is be first to set the record.

[TailLights]

Are there not two separate things, AZTR800 FKT (which has lots of rules, two of which Lael broke), and then also AZT800 FKT (see there is no "R"), which has no/few official rules but does follow the AZTR course? She broke the rules and doesn't get the AZTR FKT, but seems that she definitely set the course record.

It'd be like if I went and ran the New York Marathon race course, and maybe with some advantages like a friend riding beside me to motivate me, and I set a course record. It would be wrong to say I ran the fastest ever New York Marathon, but it would be correct to say that I have the fastest known time on the New York marathon course?

Regardless, I am looking forward to seeing the video/film or whatever is made from this.

I like the grass roots nature of bikepacking races, but hope that they grow a little more to the point that there is neutral media at the bigger events so that I can get a glimpse into the race in more detail than an article written at the finish line. AZTR, Colorado Trail Race, Silk Road, Divide, Atlas Mountain one, heck, I could consume a dozen highlights films a year on this stuff!

[TailLights]

John
Sorry you had to play the villain, hopefully the vid will be great maybe fully supported will be the next big thing in thru biking. Someone could easily get fkt for multi sport trail run/bike the full AZT with support, run the wilderness bike when legal, AFAIK it's never been done so all you have to do is be first to set the record.

That does sound like a pretty exciting event to follow. A fast cyclist, but slower runner, vs a slower cyclist who's a faster runner.

I really like racing/events where there are lead changes.

[phatmike]

Are there not two separate things, AZTR800 FKT (which has lots of rules, two of which Lael broke), and then also AZT800 FKT (see there is no "R"), which has no/few official rules but does follow the AZTR course? She broke the rules and doesn't get the AZTR FKT, but seems that she definitely set the course record.

I wouldn't say that AZTR has a lot of rules - they are relatively sparse actually.

Historically, there hasn't been separate tracking between the two. The only FKT's for bikepacking the route that are "published" are those found on the AZTR web resources. That said, Lael on her own instagram account when announcing she was going for an 800 ITT,  specifically mentioned the two current AZTR self supported records (male/female) of Nate and Chase, respectively.

The level of ambiguity of the communication both before and after is... well you can draw your own conclusion.

I think Lael should continue to do what she does, she is amazing. I think a little more thought and pre-emptive/clear communication on their objectives would be appreciated by everyone. Think of how much different this whole situation would be if AT THE BEGINNING, Lael, et al announced the following:

"Lael is attempting an 800 ITT of the AZTR route. We really want to bring this attempt to our fans through photos, video and words as it is an amazing route in a beautiful place. We know that by having a media team in place to accomplish this, we are violating one of the few rules of the AZTR which states that media crew is considered support and that the time will be designated with a * and won't be able to qualify as a record time if we are fortunate enough to do that. We respect this and the current record holders. We expect our fans respect these rules as well. still can't wait to see how fast Lael can finish the route and we hope that our fans are excited too!"

[TailLights]

"The level of ambiguity of the communication both before and after is... well you can draw your own conclusion. "

Totally agree. PR nightmare unfolding in the small bikepacking racing community.

If I went to do the AZTR course tomorrow, I'd consider the FKT to be Lael's. If I lined up for the AZTR event, then I wouldn't consider her's the FKT.

[AZTtripper]

That does sound like a pretty exciting event to follow. A fast cyclist, but slower runner, vs a slower cyclist who's a faster runner.

I really like racing/events where there are lead changes.

The person who would be interested in this style of fkt would likely have to already excel at both running and riding technical trail. And once you decide for whatever reason to have a chase rig there's no point in carrying a full bikepacking kit so you should be able to travel faster.

[Guild44]

Hey all. I'm the 2016 female winner - Sarah Jansen. I have a question: what constitutes a "media crew?" Was there an entire crew of people out there filming Lael? I thought it was her spouse, Rue, photographing/filming her?

When I was racing, someone came out onto the course and handed me a beer during my 30-mile hike (after my crank spindle literally broke in half). Is that accepting support? What if spectators take photographs? I do think there needs to be a lot more clarity about these rules ahead of time, given the tremendous energy racers invest in these attempts.

Just so y'all know - Lael spent the two months leading up to this attempt giving away bikes to girls in Tucson (some of them low-income) and teaching them how to ride and bikepack. She barely had any time to actually even train for this, because she was so busy running the GRIT program here.

We're so lucky to have Lael in Arizona investing in youth programming here. What if it was your daughter who went through Lael's program?

The sad reality is that women still aren't paid anywhere close to what men are paid to be professional cyclists. Lael has to have some media coverage to keep her sponsorship, and she's using that sponsorship to help youth in Arizona. Those bikes that our girls in Arizona now own came straight from Specialized.

Once again, not saying this means John should make an exception to the rules. I just think this requires a lot of diplomacy and care (which I'm sure John is aware of), and I hope the rules will be revised to be clearer in the future.

Thanks so much for hearing me out,

Sarah
 

[phatmike]

Hey Sarah,

I remember reading (I think in John's race report that year) about you having to hoof it with that broken crank. Crazy!

I can only speak for myself, but count me IN the group that think Lael does amazing things out there and there are a lot of people that she is able to reach and impact in a positive way. I don't think most people are trying to negate that. We need more people like Lael doing good things for those less fortunate!

I don't know enough about Lael's media crew to speak intelligently about it, so I won't other than it wasn't just Rue and there is some backing there given The Radavist...

I don't disagree with pay discrepancies and surely they exist. No argument there. That said, does Lael really need to set FKT's to keep her sponsorships? It seems to me like her stories and content do that pretty well just on their own. However, if FKT's really are necessary to keep her financially going, that sure seems like a slippery slope. In that regard, you would think she would want to hold herself to the highest of standards to avoid this kind of controversy. She herself said on the bikes or death podcast stated that she didn't know about the rule and the she didn't really care.

In any case, I think I stated it in a previous post, but I think that both things are possible:
1. Lael had a smoking fast ride on the current AZTR route and hopefully got some amazing footage of which I can't wait to see.
2. She had a media crew - Rue and at least one other with backing from The Radavist. They followed and met up along the entire length of the route. Regardless of how professional both parties are in that scenario, rule 2 of the AZTR states that it is considered support and * will be given.

Just for clarity, I was super bummed when I heard about the * - but I understood why it was applied. I was rooting for her the whole time, just as I do the other blazing fast women out there (Chase, Kait, Alexandera, etc). The gap between men and women is basically nothing now which I think is amazing.

Sadly, due to the fallout and the nastiness that ensued towards John and those supporting strict adherence to the rules it has actually turned me off a bit towards Lael, the radavist and others.

It didn't have to be this way...

Unless it HAD to be this way... For the money.

[taprider]

It didn't have to be this way...
Unless it HAD to be this way... For the money.

That is what I was wondering from the very start. 
After what happened during the Divide in 2019, ignorance is not an excuse. So, was purposefully creating controversy part of a plan?
I feel sorry for Lael if that was the case, she gets the backlash while others profit.

[Guild44]

Hi Mike. Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I didn't realize more than one person was involved in filming Lael.

I agree that allowing media is a slippery slope.

TapRider - Unfortunately, good and inspiring people do often get pulled into other people's petty battles. I really hope that's not what's happening here.

Anyway, this is an amazing race, and I hope it continues to be that way.

[phatmike]

Anyway, this is an amazing race, and I hope it continues to be that way.

I agree one hundred percent. It's in pretty good hands imo.