Big guys Ultra?

[jimfab]

Question for all the "Big Guys" out there attempting ultra racing. BY big i mean 200+ Lbs ( 90 kilo sorry ). I know this sport dose not cater to the bigger folks, but thats why i like it so much. My biggest problem is keeping up on the fuel. I have seen all the stats on Cal/ hour recommendations, but they all stop at 175 lbs. I don't believe that graph to be linear past 175. It seems that no matter how much i train or eat i hit a wall at the 6-7 hour mark. As the big guys know, the bigger you are the more weight you must carry with food, water, stronger parts.

So.... What are you " bigger " guys doing to keep the engine running on your Ultra / Long multi day adventures?

cheers- JF

[gdillon]

I weighed 215 lbs last year when I did my big ride (Denver to Leadville).  I had similar issues as you, but I would hit the wall at the 4-5 hour mark.

The trick for me is in the pacing:  keep your HR low and get off the bike and push before you need to.  As for the calories, I take in 250 calories per hour on average, plus a bit more at the beginning and the end of the day; water:  25 ounces per hour on average.

Try Endurolyte pills or similar, and recently I have taken to NUUN tablets.

[DenisVTT]

I'm around 210 and I race Clydesdales but I have a pretty low HR average while racing so that hasn't really been a problem for me.

FWIW, my own calculation is that the Gu-type energy gels offer the most calorie bangs for the weight. 100 cal for 32 grams for a Gu packet. If you can put it in a flask, even better.

BY big i mean 200+ Lbs ( 120 kilo ).

200 lbs is only 90 kilos. 120 kg would be 265 lbs.

[Slowerthensnot]

Walk lots, and for muti days FAT!! Fat and protein at night has worked well for me... 205 at the moment.... 6'2"  I find that riding SS also keeps me from redlining it like I do on a geared bike...

just my .02    its a trial and error process... not everyone is built the same

[BigPoppa]

I eat like a horse, a very... very large horse.

[DenisVTT]

I eat like a horse, a very... very large horse.

We're called Clydesdales.... 

[BigPoppa]

We're called Clydesdales.... 

Exactly what I'm saying....

Everything we have to carry is bigger and heavier!

[jimfab]

All good stuff. The cards are defiantly stacked against us, for most of us, this is how we like it. On a recent ride I upped my intake by large amounts with good success. My plan was 4-450 cal / hour, 1L H20/ Hour, My ride was 6 hours total with stops 50 miles of tough ST. Besides a screaming headache no doubt due to the unusual 80 deg temps, my legs felt good. I still had a bit of fatigue in them, but not the normal i wanna die right here feeling i would normally have at that point. In fact, I felt like i could have gone on for some time before completely bonking. I also use all the other tricks. I pace myself to a maximum of 5-6 word sentences, use low low gear more often, endurolites, I also mixed a strong batch of gator-juice. the big hurdle was stopping early to eat when i was not tired or hungry, then every hour thereafter. Moving things in the right direction. The best part is that i felt great the next day! I know it can be done!

Cherio-JF
(me 215Lb BTW)

[Marshal]

All good stuff. The cards are defiantly stacked against us, for most of us, this is how we like it. On a recent ride I upped my intake by large amounts with good success. My plan was 4-450 cal / hour, 1L H20/ Hour, My ride was 6 hours total with stops 50 miles of tough ST. Besides a screaming headache no doubt due to the unusual 80 deg temps, my legs felt good. I still had a bit of fatigue in them, but not the normal i wanna die right here feeling i would normally have at that point. In fact, I felt like i could have gone on for some time before completely bonking. I also use all the other tricks. I pace myself to a maximum of 5-6 word sentences, use low low gear more often, endurolites, I also mixed a strong batch of gator-juice. the big hurdle was stopping early to eat when i was not tired or hungry, then every hour thereafter. Moving things in the right direction. The best part is that i felt great the next day! I know it can be done!

Cherio-JF
(me 215Lb BTW)

Body size issues aside it seems we must all go through this same crucible.

Anyway, there is not a 1 to 1 relationship between what works for a 6 to 24 type races and what works for a multi day racing.  There of course can be a close relationship, but not 1 to 1. 

The multi day pace is different and the types of food and cals/hr usually more varied, both because of need/desire but many times simply due to availability. 

An unlike a 12 or 24 hour solo effort where you might try to hit a very specific intake rate of Cal/hr of very specific gels or foods a multi day isn’t usually that simple. 

If a multi day race is supported then your recovery food/effort is added on top of your typical/standard cal/hr + favorite race time-goo/food choices preparations. 

And optimal food choices and consumption rates during a unsupported multi day can be a much more complex problem altogether. 

Regardless of the type/duration of ‘long’ racing, Slowerthensnot’s comment about “it’s a trial and error process” pretty much sums it up.  No matter what may work for others as the durations goes up so does the need to figure out what works best for you.

Anyway, if you have figured it all out up to 6 hrs that's a great start.  But—just a start, unless you stick to 6 hr races
-enjoy the trial & test--part of the fun imo

[BigPoppa]

It truly is a trial and error process.

I have found that for longer triathlons (up to Half Ironman distance) that I need more calories/hour than my smaller training partners but on longer day trips I don't really drink or eat much more while on the trail. The dinner table is a different story though....

For me that means being a calorie camel, gourd when I can and while I'm on the trail eat to keep myself moving to the next meal(s).

[sean salach]

I've weighed over 200lbs(barely) for the last 5+ years. I've never had too much of a problem with it. If anything, I think the playing field is levelled if you're big/strong, as opposed to overweight. This sport requires a lot more brute strength that xc or regular endurance racing.

As far as food goes, yeah you have to carry more, but you're probably proportionately stronger than a 150 person, and shouldn't really notice the extra weight in food. Our bikes, with bikepacking gear are lighter in relation to use heavier guys than they are to the petite folk out there. In the ITI last year, Lou Kobins bike + gear weighed almost half her body weight, mine was more like a quarter of mine.

[mmeiser]

I'm no nutritionist, but I focus on high calorie foods, just an fyi, I'm 6'5" and weigh 250-260 (my weight fluctuates pretty wildly) and do a lot of 100+ mile rides and touring, in the summer I'll typically average 120 miles per day on a multi-day trip. My goal is to be able to average 150 this summer.

[sanjuanrider]

I'm typically around 200.  When I did the CTR last year I dropped my weight during training but still found that I needed considerable high calorie foods since I would bonk sooner than most other racers.  My best refueling I found during the CTR was dehydrated Mac and Cheese - Lots of calories and seemed to pull me back onto the trail amazingly fast.  Need to take some type of stove to heat the water which adds a little weight but MAC N Cheese was my drug of choice for endurance racing.

[AZTtripper]

Where are you getting the Mac and Cheese from? Sounds like a good meal.

For me it's not just how much, but what  can I stand to eat on the 4th day. Even my friend who is 145 at best struggled on his first 4 day ride. Somethings might work great for a 1 day race or long ride but when you have to eat that same thing on day four when nothing taste good. The Mac and Cheese sounds like something that might still taste good especially with a hot sauce packet and salami.

[jimfab]

I like the mac & cheese idea! I seem to have found my magic pill here this month.... Taco Bell bean burros and chia seeds. I found that since there is really nothing organic in a Tao Bell bean burro they stay good for a long time without refrigeration. I was out on an all day ride a couple weeks back and had one with me. I was about dead at 8 hours in. I took a sit and broke out my burro. 15 min later..... I felt almost brand new again! and it lasted for about 2.5 hours! I am sure the Don Miguel burros have a similar effect.

I have discovered chia seeds. Yes, the same seeds as the little toys. They claim to regulate sugar, give time release energy, and extend release water. I have to say i believe it. Turns out the Aztec hunters would take only a handful of chia seeds with them on there extended hunting expeditions. They also have more omega-3 than flax with no grinding required. Got a jar at vitamin world for 15$.

Also on a side note, In an attempt to do the best i can at the AZT this year i have gone on a low-r carb diet in an attempt to get below 200LBS before the start. 7 days in i am down 4 lbs to 211. I also feel great with loads of energy, although i find that i need about 20-25 grams of carbs per hour on rides longer than 2 hours. My basic plan is to limit daily carbs to less than 100 per day + 25 per hour +/- of riding over 1 titrated to effect ( 4 power bar blast chews ). If i stick to 100G/ day tends to limit my Cal / day to 2-2500 by default. It is very similar to the P90X nutrition plan. I also follow every ride >2 hours with a choco milk. I have to say that at one week in i already feel the results in the pedals and i am now more in tune with my bodys needs. I did some research on the subject. There are a few theories out there that claim training with a low carb diet and racing with high carbs is an effective tool for maximizing carb usage. For another look at the subject check out a documentary called Fat Head, a take off from super size me.

Cherio-JF