Coconino Stage Race 2013

[Matt Schiff]

I've been waiting myself for some chatter to pop up about this race. I don't know much about it and unlike the CTR where you can research most of it through the guide books, I've read some blogs to get a sense of what it's all about. I love the idea of the format. Way more time to actually meet people and share the experience.

Here are a few questions I have.

What should be expected for temperatures at night at the two camp spots? Looks like 30s is average. Is that accurate?

Are all food and water spots marked on the waypoints file? Are there any water spots you just have to hit and should fill up big? In the fall, what is a realistic amount of water you might need to carry or time between points?

What's the nature of the trail? It looks cool! Lots of sharp rocks? Lots of hike-a-bike? Or more mellow?

I'm not completely committed, but it looks like I'll be there.

[fastmtnbiker33w]

A buddy and I did it as a semi-fast ITT last year leaving before the group of stage racers.

Temps: First night at the bottom of Mingus was stellar with both of us pretty much sleeping on top of our pads and bivy.  Second night just past Williams was pretty cold and we had numb hands the next morning for about an hour.  I think I remember frost on my bivy when we got up around 4 am.

Water:  We made it to Sedona on empty, but we would have sought out water at the DOT location if we had camped before Sedona.  After filling up in Cottonwood and spending the night at the bottom of Mingus, we rolled into the Verde empty.  We topped off in Williams and spent the night just before Sycamore Canyon and still had a bit before the quick stop on the Interstate.  We were golden after that.  I carried a 100 oz bladder and bottle.  I can't remember if the waypoints were on the gps track.  I didn't look at it much unless I was at junctions in the trail.

Nature of the trail:  No worse than anything you experienced on the CT.  It was pretty easy getting into Sedona, then techy and slow all the way to Cottonwood.  The climb up Mingus sucked monkey butt.  The descent down was a blast.  The stretch from the other side of Mingus to the bottom of the Bill Williams climb was kind of boring (we were on SS's), then we got our asses handed to us on the climb up Bill Williams.  The descent down was a hoot and provided an awesome testing ground for our gear and our riding skills.  We then backed off a bit for the final stretch to Flag which had more road than we would have liked, but finished with some pretty sweet singletrack.

[WyoRacerX]

So, I'm planning on the trip south from Wyoming for this fine event and have a few questions.  
Being lucky to live in a relatively thorn free are, how bad are the goatheads really?  I'm thinking about riding my fatbike vs regular (tubeless on both), are my 4" 8-10psi fatties going to find it hard with the goadheads vs running 29er at 23psi?

fastmtnbiker, what SS gearing were you on?

Thanks,
Brian

[fastmtnbiker33w]

One goat head will ruin your day.  There is a bit of other vegetation that causes just as many problems.  Seems like the stretch after the fun slickrock of Sedona into Cottonwood was the worst for goat heads and other sharp vegetation.  Loose, sharp rocks are probably more of a worry overall.  The additional wheel weight (depending on your setup) would make me lean toward a 29er since there is a lot of road and Mingus sucks.  Bill Williams isn't much better.....in regards to hike-a-bike.   

[AZTtripper]

Temps: night one above Sedona your not that high up so that's the warm night. I have a 32 deg bag. Night two on top of Mingus higher up and colder, usually there's been a fire going for hanging out in camp. I end up wearing my warm layer and hat to stay warm enough. Williams area is also high and cold but I've always been in a room and ordering pizza. The morning is cold, the first year I froze trying to leave early, better to have a big B-fast and then get going after the suns been up a bit.

Not sure how a fat bike would work 29 FS was more fun then the year I rode the hardtail. Tubeless to start is good just make sure your spares have sealant. It's not as bad as say the AZT 300 but there will be some cacti and other thorns to deal with.

Not sure about the waypoint file haven't looked at it lately. First store is in Sedona, then a couple of restaurants in Cottonwood and a C store just before you leave town.

Seems like I have gotten by on 4.5 liters the two times I did the stages. Maybe buy and extra liter to carry up Mingus. Top off at the ADOT for camping the first night. Also carry enough up Mingus to get to the Verde River (not sure whats up at the spring).

Trail: Day one a little bit of HAB some annoying flat stuff (hoof prints in hard dirt) on Anderson Mesa then a bunch of road to camp. Day two some techy DH, sweet Sedona ST, sandy Lime Kiln, HAB on the lower Mingus road, then flat road to ever steeper trail, the final HAB on Mingus is crazy rock steps. Day 3 haven't done the new route its suppose to be better DH then lost of road to Williams, the climb on Williams starts with good contour then gets steeper HAB up top, the DH is stair steps water bars and down trees. Day 4 road to Sycamore then some tech and HAB roads to the AZT for sweet ST.

Hope the helps.

Tim  

[raybum]

Last year, the temps were really nice...low 40's on top of Mingus, then a chilly morning leaving Williams.  I also had numb hands on the roll out of town but eventually was down to a short sleeve jersey after leaving sycamore canyon.  Some folks did the route a week later and had about 10 degrees colder temps....so, just have to be prepared for low 30's worst case for that night.  I picked up a boatload of goatheads after descending mingus and going north along the west side of mingus...as others have said, freshen up the stans in your tires.  The route has some rocky stuff for sure, but nothing unusual for AZ. 
I ride a SS and ran 32x21.  However, I know people that have gone as tall as 32x19.  Bottom line, you'll be walking up Mingus either way.  The only part where 32x21 gets annoying is on day 4 after leaving sycamore and riding dirt roads/paved roads toward wing mountain...kinda spinny.
For anyone on the fence about the ride, DO IT.  It's a great way to ease into multi-day rides.  Sure, days 2 and 3 are tough, but what long days in the saddle aren't?

[cheeseunit]

I will be riding this for the 1st time this year. Looking forward to a great ride, meeting new people, and of course freezing my butt off .I guess some HAB will always keep ya warm!

[seizure66]

"Tubeless to start is good just make sure your spares have sealant. It's not as bad as say the AZT 300 but there will be some cacti and other thorns to deal with."

I have been trying to wrap my head around this part of the event.  I know not everyone is doing this.  What are other doing?  i am thinking tubes wit sealant to start, then back tubes and patch kits.   Side wall boots too. 

I am riding a Fargo, rigid, 29 wit a thudbuster seat post.    Any thoughts?  It's getting close....!!!!

[seizure66]

There has been a lot of good rain this year too.  i see this as a plus.  Perhaps more springs and less goat heads!     We'll see...

[AZTtripper]

I have been trying to wrap my head around this part of the event.  I know not everyone is doing this.  What are other doing?  i am thinking tubes wit sealant to start, then back tubes and patch kits.   Side wall boots too. 

I am riding a Fargo, rigid, 29 wit a thudbuster seat post.    Any thoughts?  It's getting close....!!!!

Tubes are fine people were running them for years before tubeless.

If you are comfortable riding techy stuff on the Fargo then it should be fine. Not the bike I would choose.

There has been a lot of good rain this year too.  i see this as a plus.  Perhaps more springs and less goat heads!     We'll see...

Not sure but it seams like more rain equals more growth weeds and all.

As for the springs there's really only one that's part of the course. Someone posted a while back that it was messed up. I would plan on the Verde River for water the 3rd day.

[seizure66]

If you are comfortable riding techy stuff on the Fargo then it should be fine. Not the bike I would choose.

I have been going through various blogs looking at the images.  As for techy, I am curious where the real techy stuff comes in.  I see loose rock in some areas and crappy forest service roads and very steep climbs.  I did 30 miles today, abt 50/50 good and bad roads.  Is there a difference in bikepacking tech and mountain biking tech?  I mean no insult by this, I am just preparing.  I think I will ride the Munds Park to Sedona section, loaded, Sunday Sept 8 if anyone wants to join.

Thanks all, looking forward to riding with some of you.  Others I am sure will be long gone....

[fastmtnbiker33w]

Going through Sedona is techy.  Coming off of Bill Williams is a wheelie drop nightmare as the timing/spacing of the landing zones is really poor.  It's got some steep stuff that is rideable if you've got the skills.  I wouldn't want to ride the descent into Williams on a drop bar bike....but then again I probably would just to prove that I could do it.

[seizure66]

Going through Sedona is techy.  Coming off of Bill Williams is a wheelie drop nightmare as the timing/spacing of the landing zones is really poor.  It's got some steep stuff that is rideable if you've got the skills.

 

Ok, I have ridden a bunch of that, not on the Fargo though.  On the list for Sunday. 

I wouldn't want to ride the descent into Williams on a drop bar bike....but then again I probably would just to prove that I could do it.

  Yes! 

[AZTtripper]

One cool thing about this one is that you see everybody in camp each night. Some have done the ITT but most do the stages.

As for the Fargo it was more the rigid then the drops that I was considering.

If you can handle everything to Sedona, you'll be fine IMO, slower perhaps, walking more then others maybe. I've done the course on a FS once and a hardtail once. I'll be glad to have FS again.

Tho I am only on the Coco for the first two days and then it's off to the Black Canyon and hoping for a good run home to Tucson.

Looking forward to meeting everyone and hanging out at the Sedona Overlook Campsite.

Tim

[seizure66]

Fastmntbiker: says in his blog "GPS TRACKS!!!  Don’t use these if you do the course.  I missed way too many turns."  Any idea if this has been fixed?  What would you suggest? 

http://fastmtnbiker33w.wordpress.com/2012/10/10/coco-250-ho-hum-another-long-ride/


AZTtripper:  Do you know of any one who has done this on a bike like I am talking about?  I agree the FS would be nice, however, I am short at least one bag at this point, the frame bag if I go that route.  I am looking at the various set ups for handle bar bags as well.  We will see what I decide in the next few weeks...

Thanks again for the suggestions.   

[fastmtnbiker33w]

I did NO research on the route before doing it last year.  I totally relied on my GPS and my only previous trail knowledge was the area through Sedona into Cottonwood.  I did very little blog reading and forum research on it also.  If you want to go fast, study the route on a map.  IF you don't care about going fast, you'll be fine with a GPS.  Just check the track every time you come to an intersection and one goes downhill.  I got a bunch of bonus miles by heading the wrong way more than once.

If you need a frame bag for your FS bike, hit me up.  My turn around is pretty quick.  My FS frame bag design blows the competition out of the water.

[seizure66]

Bonus miles!  Gotta love that!  I have been looking at your bags, and will send you a message on that, thanks!

[AZTtripper]

The route has been done on a rigid bike ti frame carbon fork single speed.

I think I would rather have more weight in my back pack then ride it rigid.

No one has done the route on a drop bar bike that I am aware of.

I rode the course the first year with just the track. Having the cue sheet would help to know what to look for.

Tim

[Yogi the Barry]

I seem to have become infected with the idea of doing this. A Celebration of Fall excuse to mountain bike I guess.
I checked out the Coco Stage Race web site...
this one = http://rockyroad5050.wordpress.com/5-coconino-250-and-350/
And it's current, right? ...with a Friday, October 11th start date in Flag, right? Seems Scott's GPX files are dated from 2011, but they are current, correct?
My idea is to avoid burning up a sick/vacation day on Monday and just do it in 3-days. No intention to be anti-social, just guilty of hoarding precious time off from work.
Anyhow, how hard would the first day be if I pushed to Cottonwood? Second day, bike to Williams, and hopefully finish in Flag on Sunday, before sunset.
BTW, I'm an Animal-Class [not Alien-Class] athlete with a day job which is not jeopardized by a race sponsorship.
-Barry

[AZTtripper]

Barry

Considering the record thru ride is 1:11:33 and that the Stage race is doable for mortals I bet you can pull it off.

Also if you need to you can save a lot of time by skipping Williams Mountain and then taking the frontage roads into Flag. You still get a nice big loop out of the deal.

Pretty sure that the course hasn't changed since 2011. See you for breakfast at The Place on the 11th.

Tim