Colorado Trail Race #3

[Stefan_G]

Starts Sunday, August 2nd, 2009 - 6am

http://www.climbingdreams.net/ctr/

With 23 starters and 9 finishers last year, I'm thinking the CTR might be too easy.  Maybe we should add the Breck-to-Copper segment + Coney Summit + Cataract Ridge reroute?   (  For Sebastian) 

[ScottM]

Starts Sunday, August 2nd, 2009 - 6am

  Hoping to be there this year.

With 23 starters and 9 finishers last year, I'm thinking the CTR might be too easy.  Maybe we should add the Breck-to-Copper segment + Coney Summit + Cateract Ridge reroute?   (  For Sebastian) 

I seem to remember suggesting leaving out Breck->Copper but allowing the possibility of putting it back in, should the racers want it, or should the CTR be deemed too easy.   I can't tell how serious you are though...

[Stefan_G]

  Hoping to be there this year.

Awesome!

I seem to remember suggesting leaving out Breck->Copper but allowing the possibility of putting it back in, should the racers want it, or should the CTR be deemed too easy.   I can't tell how serious you are though...

Well, I am moderately serious, mainly because I intend on riding the CTR again next year, and I haven't ridden the new Cataract Ridge reroute. I've been told it would be a fair amount of hike-a-bike, but I'd love to check it out.  It's far enough out there that just checking it out practically entails a multi-day ride, so why not experience it first hand during the race?  I don't think that adding in those segments would double the difficulty of the CTR, (well... maybe close though!) but it certainly would make it even more weather dependent...  Plus Lake City would then be even further out of the way making the stretch from BV to Silverton even more committing.  Oh yeah, and Frisco is more out of the way too...

As far as finisher percentage goes, it's interesting to note that 60% finished in '07 in atrocious weather, while only 40% finished in '08 in nearly flawless weather.

I welcome any thoughts and feedback from anyone who has ridden the CTR or intends to ride it in '09!

[dream4est]

Do it Stefan. It makes total sense to add in the extra singletrack where it hurts (right before hitting towns after long mileage from the last refuel). Last year when I TT'ed the route I did CT to Miner's Creek and them wussed out on Peaks to Frisco. Same with sections 22-23 I intended to turn left on hwy 149 but I rode into Lake City and did the detour. So I think in the race it will makes things much harder as one will want to detour and eat at Breck and Lake City but that will cost time. The Breck 7-11 is not far from the route though so that detour would only be a few minutes.

I am in if you add pain and bordering on insane hike-a-bike. The amount of food needed to ride from Mt. Princeton to Silverton via sections 22 and 23 would be a substantial weight and be a key race strategy. Camping on Cateract Ridge would be awesome in good weather I bet.

The course is already great but adding those sections would break up a 100-mile easy detour, add 45+ miles of ST and make the race much harder to finish without detouring for food. You will still have 25+ starters but less % will finish.

Imagine riding Georgia Pass, Ten Mile Range and Searle/Kokomo in one day without being killed by lightning! The 09 race sounds like it could be the best one on the schedule if you update the course.

Mark

[DaNM]

 
 The CTR might be to easy. Skipping Frisco and Lake City throws another dynamic into it. Of course the need for more luggage, but more importantly it will be a better wilderness experience, vacation.
 I do value the TT that is in place for personal goals and history, but feel the need for a more complete version. Either way is fine with me.
 

[Marshal]

Starts Sunday, August 2nd, 2009 - 6am

http://www.climbingdreams.net/ctr/

With 23 starters and 9 finishers last year, I'm thinking the CTR might be too easy.  Maybe we should add the Breck-to-Copper segment + Coney Summit + Cataract Ridge reroute?   (  For Sebastian) 

I am planning to do the CTR again this yr, hopefully without any ride ending ‘mishaps’ this time. 

In general my biggest objection to making the route ‘harder’ is the added time for us slow riding back markers.  Got to get back to work and all that stuff……otherwise doesn’t really matter ‘that’ much to me. With that said:

I see no reason to add the Breck-to-Copper segment.  It’s basically a hike up to the ridge and a steep ride right back down, it does add some tough elevation and that’s about it imo. 

The Coney Summit and Cataract Ridge reroute? Mixed feelings about adding these two sections and I am inclined to say do not add them,…….However they do look interesting and the added ‘logistical difficulty’ would add significantly to the planning/mental challenge.

The way I would do it:
I say skip the Breck-to-Copper segment (hike-a-bike), and skip section 22 (hike-a-bike), keep Lake City re-supply But Add section 23 with Stony pass (rideable trail) .

[Slowerthensnot]

I'll be there s! as my bday is the 3rd

I'm down for whatever changes

[ETURK]

Haven done this race last year (crashed above Coal Bank) I have hardened my gear/food choices - distance is ok. Overall I say do it. If you want a strategy then I suggest a balance between fun (single-track) and hard (distance or/and walk a bike) and plain fear (high altitude, far away). By adding 22 and 23 you’re adding fear/distance, but with the copper segment you’re putting in general frustration (I hear its majority hike a bike, but I don't know for sure). Either way I am in.

[chuckyb]

Whewww eeeee !!! can't wait for all that fun

great start day/time as it gives a travel day and still gets us out the gate before Monday and at sun up or so to get that looong first day in.

about the route change i think the real question is: do you retain the route for long term competitive finish times? or do you change the route every so often in order force riders to restrategize?  both are valid questions it just depends if you want to maintain tactic difficulty or overall time

Breck-Copper would cut out the trail sections down to Frisco, replaced by hike-a-bike, but you get a meal and a quick river dive either way... so i agree that probably averages out

i'm not privy to 22 & 23 and even checking the map doesn't make me experienced ... so i have no comment there

question on forum - any interest in changing or standardizing to a platform with better connectivity like RSS feeds, twitter, video, and the like?  it would be great to use a single site for maps, forum, info, race tracking, and web 2.0 connectvity, including social net -- you guys on FaceBook?

here's to hoping Santa brings you something good ... and a shot of Tequila to boot!
out to ride in the desert now

[ScottM]

I've thought about this over the last while, and am inclined to vote for keeping the course the same.  I like the idea of new strategery, and the challenges adding these sections poses (esp. logistically).  I've ridden most of the course (and a fair amount of the sections in question), but I have yet to complete the "easier" CTR in full.  I guess once I've done that, I might be more excited about adding more singletrack, but until then...

It won't change whether I enter or not, though.

[Stefan_G]

Thanks for all the feedback guys!  Good thoughts on the pros and cons of modifying the course.  For me, the single biggest drawback is the resultant record keeping issue.  Second to that is visualizing (and experiencing!?!) horrible weather on the 33 miles of trail from Spring Creek Pass to Stony Pass - 100% above treeline with 8000' of elevation gain! A potential show-stopper to be sure.  Compare that to measly segment 6 - Kenosha Pass to Breck - 33 miles and 4500'.

But then again, the additional challenge and uncertainty is a huge draw...

[Stefan_G]

question on forum - any interest in changing or standardizing to a platform with better connectivity like RSS feeds, twitter, video, and the like?  it would be great to use a single site for maps, forum, info, race tracking, and web 2.0 connectvity, including social net -- you guys on FaceBook?

A platform with better connectivity is a great idea.  For all you Facebookers, I just created a group "Colorado Trail Race".  It would be nice to have 1 central location instead of tidbits spread out, but I think it will be hard to standardize.  For the small number of poeple intersted in the CTR, it feels a bit spread out already.  Seems like twitter kinda fizzled and died and MTBR forums get clusterfu(ked with too much garbage from anonymous posters.  With Scott as the admin, backpacking.net might end up being the best vehicle for this sort of thing...

[ScottM]

But then again, the additional challenge and uncertainty is a huge draw...

True dat.

I use to worry more about records and keeping routes the same, but I'm not so sure that is enough of a reason to justify holding back the evolution of an event. 

Now, the weather on Spring Creek -> Stony does seem like a good one.  I speak from experience on that one.

[ETURK]

Perhapse its too early in the season, but it seems to me fewer people are discussing this.

[ScottM]

It would be nice to have 1 central location instead of tidbits spread out, but I think it will be hard to standardize.  For the small number of poeple intersted in the CTR, it feels a bit spread out already. 

It does feel a bit spread out, and I hope bp.net hasn't further spread things.

Seems like twitter kinda fizzled and died and MTBR forums get clusterfu(ked with too much garbage from anonymous posters. 

That was my feeling too.  I'll bet I could figure out how to get twitter updates onto this site, if people want to try that again for the CTR.  One of these days I'll join the 90's and get "on" Facebook.  Videos should work here, and I can easily set up an RSS feed for CTR posts, should they end up in this forum. 

(some general RSS info: http://www.bikepacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=148.0)

[ScottM]

Perhapse its too early in the season, but it seems to me fewer people are discussing this.

To me too.  It's early, and likely some people haven't jumped on bikepacking.net yet, either.  (Like I said, I hope I haven't spread people out further with this site).

[AGsnow]

I'd have to say, that if you are going to vote, you have to have ridden the route (s).

Breck to Copper is heinous, and would detract from the race.

I've done many versions of the stony pass area, and while the views are amazing and the terrain spectacular, the hike-a-bike was intense. I could argue both sides of adding or not adding this section. The last time I rode it - the Pole Creek version, we basically carried our bikes for 12 hours.

[Stefan_G]

I'd have to say, that if you are going to vote, you have to have ridden the route (s).

Breck to Copper is heinous, and would detract from the race.

I've done many versions of the stony pass area, and while the views are amazing and the terrain spectacular, the hike-a-bike was intense. I could argue both sides of adding or not adding this section. The last time I rode it - the Pole Creek version, we basically carried our bikes for 12 hours.

Hey Alison-

Thanks for chiming in!  While I agree that Breck to Copper is heinous, it does seem to be getting better every year.  One of these days, I bet switch backs are built to get above treeline, plus the downhill to Copper is a lot of fun already.  Maybe we should wait another year or more for that one though...

As far as Pole Creek goes, I too hiked *down* that section throught the mucky marsh and maze of ruts torn up by motos.  The Cataract Ridge reroute skips that part, but I have to imagine that it is quite similar to the rest of the terrain around Coney Summit - rocky, alpine meadow riding with substantial hike-a-bike.  I haven't ridden it, but aside from the CTR, I'm not sure when I would ever get the chance!

[Kemler]

Hello everyone,
New here to the CTR.  Honestly didn't even know it existed until I stumbled upon some YouTube videos of the 2007 CTR posted by Alison (yeah, I am sort of out of the loop these days).  Ever since I watched those, I have been hooked!  I look forward to the 2009 CTR.  I would like to be there with you all (if you have room for another) and see how far I can get.

Is there any advice you could give as far as gear, food, clothing?
Has there been a final determination on start time/date or route change yet?  I know that there were some questions about the start time and the course route this year.