CTR 2013 Planning

[Woodland]

This may be a stupid question, but I'll be the one.

For southbounders this year the official end of the racecourse will be at Velorution Cycles? Or at the Junction Creek Trail head?

[joeydurango]

I think that's a great question!  Stefan is the man here, of course, but my vote is the JC trailhead.  Not that I wouldn't love to see you all after the race... but keeping the traditional finish the same makes sense.  You can all just swing by afterwards.   If I'm fast going northbound, I may still get to meet most of the southbounders after making the homeward trip...

[Stefan_G]

I think that's a great question!  Stefan is the man here, of course, but my vote is the JC trailhead.  Not that I wouldn't love to see you all after the race... but keeping the traditional finish the same makes sense.  You can all just swing by afterwards.   If I'm fast going northbound, I may still get to meet most of the southbounders after making the homeward trip...

Yep, agree with Joey.  Keep the S-bound course start/finish the same.  Waterton is such a great start because of the 6 miles of dirt road for the group to jostle around and spread out on a bit.  Going north, we wouldn't have that luxury starting from Junction Creek, hence the in-town start.

[Done]

GPX file(s) updated once again using Toby's more accurate GPS data file.  I modified his waypoints and added the extension to 11th and Main in Durango, but otherwise the tracks on the CTR webpage and Toby's blog are now identical.  Toby, thanks for all the hard work you've done tweaking that file over the last 3 years! 

It feels good to give something back to this community. I started as a complete and utter bikepacking newbie three years ago, and I've managed to survive thanks to a lot of great advice and encouragement from people on this site and elsewhere. Maintaining my CTR track is a fun way for me to remember past years and plan for future ones, and I'm happy that it's useful for others.

[Stefan_G]

BTW all, the Colo Trail Foundation (CTF) is hurting for money this year.  I always encourage donations to them for anyone riding the CT, but the dollar amount garnered by CTR riders in the past has been not only disheartening, but IMO, downright pathetic.    

As long as I continue to organize the CTR, it will remain a free and self-supported race. SPOT/trackleaders is completely independent from myself and the CTR, and although they unquestionably make the race more fun to watch, and also add a fairness/verification factor to the race, renting a SPOT or being added to the trackleaders leaderboard is completely optional. I know there can be tremendous costs associated with prepping, acquiring gear, and just getting to/from the race start/finish, but still, the race itself costs nothing.

Joe Polk of MTBCast also provides his toll-free call-in number for use during the race at no charge, as well as volunteering his time to listen to calls and put podcasts together on his website. Our only compensation for anything CTR-related (which I wouldn't change for the world!) is not just hearing about those experiences on the trail, but also helping enable them to happen.

So, I'm considering declaring a $50-$100 donation to the CTF as mandatory for participation in the CTR this year.  Please discuss.

[Done]

So, I'm considering declaring a $50-$100 donation to the CTF as mandatory for participation in the CTR this year.  Please discuss.

As a persistent advocate of the Colorado Trail Foundation,  I've given them $50-100 every year that I've raced. Compared to what we spend on our bikes, gear, food, transportation, etc. to race the CTR, $50-100 is pocket change.

I'm not sure there's much to discuss. If people value the trail, they need to suck it up and send the CTF some money.

[Woodland]

So, I'm considering declaring a $50-$100 donation to the CTF as mandatory for participation in the CTR this year.  Please discuss.

I like that idea - great incentive to support the trail that we demand so much from. People spend far more to race in other events (and IMO gear, bikes, food, prep, logistical costs should not be considered part of an actual race fee)  

[JosiahM]

perhaps if you collect "entry fees" and send a significant lump sum to the CTF, they will be more likely to keep us in mind for future updates as well.

[THE LONG RANGER]

So, I'm considering declaring a $50-$100 donation to the CTF as mandatory for participation in the CTR this year.  Please discuss.

I like the idea in general, but is there a way you could phrase it to be a, "HIGHLY highly suggested", with social and tribal pressure to do so, (instead of mandatory) donation?  Personally, I would def. give $50 to the CTF if I decide to race, but those with a tighter budget are going to be turned off. I'm thinking people that are perhaps in school, without a study stream of income. If it's mandatory, it won't turn me off, as I think the CTF are doing good, but there are many other ways to contribute to them - trailbuilding, going to their fundraisers - I would almost say that utilizing the trail - or even taking pictures and sharing them supports the CTF.

[fotooutdoors]

I like the idea in general, but is there a way you could phrase it to be a, "HIGHLY highly suggested", with social and tribal pressure to do so, (instead of mandatory) donation?  Personally, I would def. give $50 to the CTF if I decide to race, but those with a tighter budget are going to be turned off. I'm thinking people that are perhaps in school, without a study stream of income. If it's mandatory, it won't turn me off, as I think the CTF are doing good, but there are many other ways to contribute to them - trailbuilding, going to their fundraisers - I would almost say that utilizing the trail - or even taking pictures and sharing them supports the CTF.

This.  I am sure that there are people who are just scraping by to get to and from the trailheads. 

Plus, I would be somewhat off-put if I were told that I had to donate for a "free" race, even if I were planning on sending in a donation.  A local race organizer did this without pre-anouncing before sign-up, and it put me off; I had already sent in a donation for the trail system where the race was held, plus I wasn't able to swing the donation at that point, so the race quickly filled and I was SOL.

I really like the idea of tribal pressure, but that requires diligence on the part of the community.

[Done]

"Tribal pressure" doesn't appear to have worked so far...

[Johnny_mtb]

I agree with some of the above. If you impose a required donation then you essentially are charging for the race. However, if you require riders to either donate money (any amount) or volunteer (build trails, etc.) that would keep the race "free" and allow anyone to race regardless of money. Out of towners may have to plan a little more ahead to volunteer but it still gives them the option.

[fotooutdoors]

"Tribal pressure" doesn't appear to have worked so far...

But I don't really see anyone besides you and Steffan actively advocating for a donation to the CTF; it needs to be a community value for tribal pressure.  In short, I don't really see tribal pressure happening.

Edit:  should clarify that I'm not bashing Toby or Steffan, but rather pointing out a weakness in the CTR community.

[Done]

But I don't really see anyone besides you and Steffan actively advocating for a donation to the CTF; it needs to be a community value for tribal pressure.  In short, I don't really see tribal pressure happening.

Edit:  should clarify that I'm not bashing Toby or Steffan, but rather pointing out a weakness in the CTR community.

OK, then how about adding your name to the list of those who are advocating for the CTF? Send them some money, and start badgering those who haven't!

Those who contribute get many tangible benefits. For example, I KNOW that the trail and its spiritual allies ensured my safe passage last year. The rain never made me wet, my gear was never eaten by a rabid moose, I wasn't bitten by any snakes, no trees fell on my head, and I found literally pounds of fresh raspberries on the top of Coney. THAT's karma, baby!

[asatrur]

Be careful with money, as if the USFS catches wind of this, they will shut you down. We had a running "race" with no entry fees in the peaks near Crestone needle and one year the "organizer" said a mandatory donation to a local entity was required and they shut us down that year and every year since. It just happened last year for another event with "donations requested"

On another note, I am looking at doing this, but not sure I could swing 7/21, so I am wondering the following:
What would be the latest someone would consider N-S?
What is the average mileage day for a decent time being realistic?
FYI, 25 dollars was donated to CTF today. It is worth it for what they provide!
Thanks,
Asa

[THE LONG RANGER]

"Tribal pressure" doesn't appear to have worked so far...

There's some truth to that, and maybe that means we need some attitude adjustment, and realize how incredible something like the Colorado Trail *is* and be more stewards to it, rather than merely exploit the trail. I think the best thing to do would be to cast any donations in a positive light - so perhaps on the forum/or your blog post your little, "Just sent over MY donation to the CTR! Feeling good about the race!", and maybe that example will help others to follow suite. I think getting the word out that the CTF really really needs the funds, or - guess what? The Colorado Trail ain't gonna be what it used ta be isn't the worst idea, either. With the idea being to nudge people into doing something we should all ("all" being, those who use the trail) probably be doing, anyways.

I'm using the framework used for underground music shows, that double as fundraisers: Everyone is allowed, there's a "Highly" suggested donation, no one is turned away. There's some that don't pay (or pay very little), most people pay the suggested, and there's some established people in the, "scene" that have been around forever that usually pay a little, or a lot more than they have to. But the only person knowing all this, is the doorperson.

I also want to reiterate if Stephan wants this, no matter if it's suggested or mandatory, and I put my hat in for the race, I'll be happy to pay (or get a CTF membership, etc) - especially since it's a trail so close to where I live. I think it's a great cause for the "race" to rally towards.

[mtnbound]

I would agree that requiring a donation is problematic from a NFS perspective and I wouldn't want to endanger the CTR.  However, we should all strongly encourage everyone to donate since it is the lifeline of the CTR.  They keep the trail clear and in good condition.  The CTF advocated for bike packers on the proposed new section of trail (which I think is unusual since it is mainly a backpacking organization) and I think they will continue to promote multi-use.  The CTF deserves our support and we should actively encourage all riders to contribute.  I have donated and will donate again to keep this organization going.  I will also try to do trail work, though that will have to wait until next year.  While donations may have been lackluster in the past, I think with more emphasis, greater participation will come.   

[mtnbound]

I am not riding in CTR 2013 (but plan on it in 2014) but perhaps one way to increase "tribal" or "peer" pressure is to list somewhere on this site (and/or on the official CTR site) a list of all riders for that year that have contributed.  In other words, request that everyone who donates to post on this site so it is public and then to add that name to the list (screen names are OK too).  It should not be mentioned how much that rider has donated since everyone has different financial circumstances and even $10 is still helpful (and tax deductible too!). 

Besides, if we get enough people listed, I think it will make everyone "feel good" about it and the CTF may take notice too. Maybe even speak the names of all who donated at the start of each CTR as a way of thanking them (of course, we all need to thank Stefan too for his incredible (and thankless) efforts!!).

[Johnny_mtb]

How about not getting listed on Stefan's result page unless prof of volunteer or donation?

[JosiahM]

I find it really kind of disturbing that we are even having this argument.
I don't know of anyone willing to go fight for land and make 500 miles worth of trail for us to ride.... if we are going to go spend a week adding wear and tear to this trail, the least we could do is donate to help maintain or undo the damage that we all do to a trail over the course of a week.
It isn't a road.. our taxes aren't paying for it.  it's coming out of someone's pockets - and it should be coming out of the pockets of those of us who will use it.
riding one of these events comes with fairly large investments of time away from work and large travel expenses for many of us.  I just think it's dumb for some of us to spend 500 bucks or more just to get there but not be willing to give anything for using the trail itself.
I'll be the first to admit that last year I didn't donate anything because of lack of awareness.  I knew nothing about CTR and who they were or what they did.  With the knowledge that without them there would be no trail, however, I think if someone cannot afford to donate to the ctf, then they surely cannot afford the other costs of riding the ctr either.