CTR 2013 Planning

[Done]

Watching another racer's bike while they are in the store is the same as giving a fellow racer directions, mechanical assistance, water, a tube, or moral support. Perfectly acceptable within the CTR rules, but you shouldn't feel entitled to this luxury, nor required to watch someone's bike should they ask.

Hmmm, I hadn't thought of this as anything close to the same as sharing stuff on the trail, since it takes place in town. But I suppose that it is, in a way...

But since you see it as the same as sharing a tube or water (which I think is pretty pathetic for a self-supported race), I'm going to stop asking people to watch my bike.

[mtnbound]

Toby, I think Stefan is referring to the part of the rules that says for riders to be "good citizens" -riders (voluntarily) looking out for each other (on or off the trail) (within reason and otherwise within the rules) seems to fit within the ethos of the race.  For instance, if two racers were taking a break in a parking lot TH with a port o potty and there were some scary characters around, one racer may ask the other to watch his/her stuff while they went to the bathroom.  I think that the other racing agreeing to provide such assistance would fit within the scope of being a good citizen and not against the rules.  Of course, as he mentions, no racer is obligated to give such help and each racer must not expect or feel entitled to such assistance.  It is a self-supported race but common courtesy doesn't always have to be disregarded.

On a different note, are you going to hold another FTC CTR get together before the race?

[Stefan_G]

It is a self-supported race but common courtesy doesn't always have to be disregarded.

Yes, well put mtnbound.  Shades of gray, shades of gray.  IMO, following the guideline of common courtesy is a good one.  For me personally, I would absolutely take turns watching bikes with fellow racers.  Just seems like good karma.

And, of course, I knew putting it this way would give Toby additional insight on his strict, self-support ethos...    Sure, it seems so minor, more minor even than unplanned sharing of a tube or water. However, the consequences of a stolen bike could be much worse than being thirsty or having to spend hours patching a tube or walking...

[joeydurango]

We have to have at least one of these discussions per year... who's got the popcorn?

[aarond]

Quote from TobyGadd:  "I'm going to stop asking people to watch my bike."

We better not catch you getting any moral support either, after all, that would be pretty pathetic for a self-supported race!

[Done]

I'd be more than happy to watch someone else's bike. Or to give them a tube. I have been, and will continue to be, a firm believer in common courtesy.

But I'd never take a tube from another rider (racer or other) and consider my race self-supported.

I don't think that watching bikes in town to be similar to borrowing a tube on the trail, which is why I've been OK with it in the past. But maybe it's not after all...

[Done]

Quote from TobyGadd:  "I'm going to stop asking people to watch my bike."

We better not catch you getting any moral support either, after all, that would be pretty pathetic for a self-supported race!

Yes, ITTing a route is purer, because you can't get any moral support. But with group starts, it's not reasonable to avoid interacting with other riders. I draw the line at material support, which is a nice and clean distinction. Some people are OK with borrowing gear, sharing tents, eating from caches, calling ahead for services etc., and still calling it "self supported," but I think that it's more rewarding to set the bar higher. If you really want to see how strong you are, and how you cope under pressure, then try doing it yourself. It brings a greater level of commitment and challenge--which is good for the soul.

[Woodland]

Yes, ITTing a route is purer, because you can't get any moral support. But with group starts, it's not reasonable to avoid interacting with other riders. I draw the line at material support, which is a nice and clean distinction. Some people are OK with borrowing gear, sharing tents, eating from caches, calling ahead for services etc., and still calling it "self supported," but I think that it's more rewarding to set the bar higher. If you really want to see how strong you are, and how you cope under pressure, then try doing it yourself. It brings a greater level of commitment and challenge--which is good for the soul.

With myself unable to meet the group start logistics I will be doing an ITT - so thanks for the extra inspiration Toby. 

And I never worried about my bike last year (call me naive).

[mtnbound]

I just got an email from the NFS on the decision on the relocation of the a portion of the CT/CDNST from La Garita to Lujan Pass.  They are relocating 31.2 miles and, the most important decision was whether to include bikes or not on the new trail.  After much advocacy from many of us and, particularly the CTF, BIKES ARE IN!!!!!!!!!!! 

A major reason for the decision was that since the NFS didn't have the money to maintain the trail, they rely on groups like the CTF (which advocated for bikes!) that maintain the trail for them.  A Huge Thank you must go out to the CTF for supporting our cause!!!  I donated to them a couple of months ago and I strongly encourage each of you to do the same since the CTF maintains the CT for all of us and helps keep it multi-use for bikes.  Please donate something - it only takes a minute and anything you can donate will help (even $10 or $20) since we benefit greatly from their service.  Here is there link - http://www.coloradotrail.org/contribute.html.  Please put in the comment box that you appreciate their support of bikers on the CT so they know who is supporting them.

[Done]

I just got an email from the NFS on the decision on the relocation of the a portion of the CT/CDNST from La Garita to Lujan Pass.  They are relocating 31.2 miles and, the most important decision was whether to include bikes or not on the new trail.  After much advocacy from many of us and, particularly the CTF, BIKES ARE IN!!!!!!!!!!! 

A major reason for the decision was that since the NFS didn't have the money to maintain the trail, they rely on groups like the CTF (which advocated for bikes!) that maintain the trail for them.  A Huge Thank you must go out to the CTF for supporting our cause!!!  I donated to them a couple of months ago and I strongly encourage each of you to do the same since the CTF maintains the CT for all of us and helps keep it multi-use for bikes.  Please donate something - it only takes a minute and anything you can donate will help (even $10 or $20) since we benefit greatly from their service.  Here is there link - http://www.coloradotrail.org/contribute.html.  Please put in the comment box that you appreciate their support of bikers on the CT so they know who is supporting them.

AWESOME NEWS!

I love the Colorado Trail Foundation.

[mtnbound]

I am still reading the 31 page decision but a couple of other notable items:

Besides the CTF, it noted that mountain biking groups (including IMBA) were the primary (non-motorized) groups that maintained the trails in that area so it would be inconsistent to exclude bikes when the NFS does not have the staffing or funds to maintain the trails and relies on these groups. "Most of our non-motorized volunteer groups in the area are either mountain bike clubs or multiple-use advocates; therefore, the trail should be designed to accommodate those non-motorized uses to increase the chances for sustainable construction and long-term maintenance for which the forests have neither the staffing or funding to accomplish on their own."

Further, "While we understand CDNST thru-hiker desires for exclusive use of the trail, exclusion of bikes (and for that matter horses), would not be an environmentally or fiscally responsible decision on our part. We believe that if we considered only hiker/horse use, the trail would never be fully constructed and maintenance would rarely occur because of the lack of established hiker or backcountry horseman volunteer groups in this remote part of Colorado."  So, it is also a reminder to support your local mtb group that does trail work/maintenance - it is noted by the appropriate authorities which groups help maintain the trails.

Also notable is the finding that "No significant differences in effects have been described for any of the action alternatives that would indicate that a substantial interference with the nature and purposes of The Act has occurred through the inclusion of bikes."  AWESOME!!!! They finally recognize that bikes are not any worse on trails than hikers or horses.

Just a reminder again - PLEASE DONATE TO THE CTF THAT HELPED MAKE THIS HAPPEN!!

 

[Done]

I checked out the Tarryall detour last weekend. Wow, there's lot of construction going on! For about ten miles, they are widening the road and preparing to pave it. It'll be interesting to hear what Stefan finds out about their schedule.

I drove back down 285 after dark, and there is simply no way that I'd ride it at night. Scary as hell. While Tarryall is going to be long, hot, and dry, I'd absolutely choose it over 285. Hopefully the Bailey Trail Project will succeed, and one day we'll have a great singletrack route!

I've got good data to update my GPX files. I'll probably process it in the next few days, and then post it if Stefan determines the construction status Tarryall is compatible with the CTR.

[Shirey]

I found the link to the NFS article the mtnbound references. Pretty sweet news:

http://a123.g.akamai.net/7/123/11558/abc123/forestservic.download.akamai.com/11558/www/nepa/65572_FSPLT3_1424409.pdf

[Couloirman]

So do we get more singletrack on the CTR or does this not change our route?

I found the link to the NFS article the mtnbound references. Pretty sweet news:

http://a123.g.akamai.net/7/123/11558/abc123/forestservic.download.akamai.com/11558/www/nepa/65572_FSPLT3_1424409.pdf

[Done]

So do we get more singletrack on the CTR or does this not change our route?

It will change the route--and add a whole bunch of singletrack!

Alas, it'll be years before it's completed. But if the Colorado Trail Foundation gets more donations and volunteers, it'll surely go more quickly!

[elobeck]

Anyone know about snow coverage on the CT right now Durango/Silverton area? I know its early but think it was a light snow year down there? Thinking about some riding next weekend..

[joeydurango]

Molas Pass to town is completely fine.  A tiny bit of snow hiking in spots... may even be melted since last weekend.

[elobeck]

Thx. Know anything about the section between Silverton and Salida?

[joeydurango]

Nope.  Haven't been out that way yet.  Soon, though...

[cjdunn]

I know there aren't "right" answers for these questions but I'm looking for opinions.  I'm thinking about doing the CTR this year and I currently have two bikes to choose from.  I'm leaning towards my Karate Monkey (currently a 1X10 with suspension fork) or my Giant Anthem X29er FS 3X10.  Believe it or not, if equally equipped both bikes weigh in about the same, around 28-29 lbs.

I'm leaning towards the KM simply for reliability reasons and that I have a full triangle bag for it.  I just don't trust all those pivots etc. on the Anthem in the rain and mud I'm likely to encounter.  Maybe too paranoid?

My questions are: Which bike would you use and why?  and If I use the KM is it worth making it a into 2X10 or 3X10?  If so which one?  I hesitate to spend the cash to make the KM a 3X10 or 2X10 if the Anthem would be just as good or maybe a better choice for this route.  I realize the CTR has been done on all kinds of bikes and gears and that doesn't make or break the effort but I am interested in hearing the different perspectives and experiences of CTR racers.

FWIW. A little additional info.  I have done one bikepacking trip ever. About 1 month ago I rode the KM set up rigid on the Kaibab "150" route with 100 miles on day one and 50 on day two.  11,500' climbing total. I absolutely loved it and felt pretty good which is why I'm considering the CTR. I realize the CTR is WAY harder though. I find that for my age (51) I'm a better than average climber and would prefer to ride rather than HAB if possible.  I have lots of backpacking experience, 30+ years of rock climbing including some big walls, and have raced XC mtb for two seasons (50+ age group) and will probably have to upgrade to Cat 1 next season since I finished 2nd in Cat 2 this year.  
I see myself approaching the CTR like a big wall.  Just keep plugging along while enjoying the adventure of the journey.  I hope to do it in 7-8 days.

Thanks for any info.  Chris