CTR #3 Route Poll

[dwj]

no problem i'm down for whatever. if you are going to take out the cinnamon pass detour, can you be sure to give us non-gps users plenty of time to plan accordingly

[Stefan_G]

Don't worry, I've been a non-GPSer until the AZT just recently.  3 years ago, the Coney summit stuff was well marked with posts and cairns, and I have to imagine that Cataract Ridge is also.  Some of the posts were pretty far apart, so doing that piece at night might be tough though.

[riverfever]

Any idea when a final decision will be made Stefan?

[Stefan_G]

Soon, soon!  For now, count on the Breck-->Copper segment.  I hate to send everyone up and over Cataract if I'm not going to personally participate in the suffering, and I'm waiting to see how my hand issues play out after just finishing the AZT.  Aside from planning on buying a little extra food in BV, and studying the route a bit, there's not too much difference in the prep work, so I hope it's not too big of a deal to keep procrastinating on the final route selection.  Votes on the Poll seem to be still trickling in too...

I'll plan on a drop-dead date of June 1, (gives everyone 2 months!) but I really think it will come together before that.  I have to admit, with the poll as even as it is, I'm leaning towards adding Coney and Cataract.  There is some nice, dense pine forest just before that to wait out any storms and then make a mad dash up and over.

[TimG!]

Hey,
I just voted for removing possible all detours.  I think this is the best way to have a CTR.  Yeah, it's hard super f=ing hard, but it's not called the "Colorado Trail-except for the sections that we think are too difficult- Race.'"  Maybe some won't finish maybe some will, isn't that what it's all about?  I personally DNFed in 08 but that was my choice, obviously others finished.  Wouldn't it be refreshing if there was one event that was almost too hard for most to complete?  Eliminating all detours now sets the precedent of this being "THE" benchmark singletrack race by which all others are compared. 

Either way I'm in and I'll crawl to Durango if I have to.

[KO]

Although I won't be doing the race this year, a buddy and I will be doing it second week of June(hope most of the snow will be gone by then), so I voted to remove all the detours.  Since it is the "Colorado Trail Race", I think we should ride as much of the trail legally as we can and forget about records or the race being too difficult.  If you think removing the detours would make it too difficult, then you should wait until you can tackle the whole thing before joining.  Just doesn't make sense to me to skip sections of the trail if we are able to ride it.
Hey Stefan, I won't be doing the race the same time as you guys, would my time be allowed as long as I do the same route and I will keeping my tracks on my gps for record?  My plan is to skip all the optional detours and doing the 285 route instead of Taryall.

[wookieone]

Man, June is early....Could be a S#$T ton of snow up high, but only one way to find out. I am so facinated by this talk of the trail difficulty, I agree it is in theory a good idea to ride all the singletrack leaglly available, but and I do say BUT it adds a level of dificulty beyond miles and vertical, again I voted for harder, but this would make the soutern section such a wild card, if there are storms it would be super super scary, also super slow trail, not much tread, so far far away from help or resupply, bail out. I think this could be so so epic, if you haven't finished the OG CTR, this will blow you away! We shall see what the course gods, IE stefan, will decide, peace Jefe

[KO]

Because of schedules and obligation and two little ones, June is the only time I will be able to do it.  I've been itching too long to not take the only opportunity I will have for who knows how long to do this thing.  You put it best right there Jefe when you say it could be so so epic, that's why I voted to take all the optional detours out.  Who knows, I might not be able to finish because too much snow or I become completely demoralized and puss out, but that would be my fault and not the trail's.  I'd rather push my bike if I have to on the trail rather than road ride around it. 

[wookieone]

Yo word to your moxie, I say when in doubt go for it!!!  I like the present course, but I like getting way out there too, so yeah when I say so so epic I mean that truly and it may chew some of us up and spit us out, some of us may make it out with a smile on our faces? Sometimes I forget that these events are for the true hard cores out there, not the 24 hour lap racers, no offense to those who do that, but this S%^T is for real, you mess up, you might die! So seriously folks if the course goes full bore, it will be a whole new beast!!! Best of luck to all who try and remember it is better to try and bail than to never give it a shot, Life's for Living!!! Peace Jefe

[Kemler]

I'll be there for my first CTR this year.  It sounds awesome, especially adding Coney and Cataract.  Just counting the days.

[Stefan_G]

Thanks for all the comments everyone.  It's great to see all the excitement and enthusiasm, especially for sticking to the trail.

Jefe nailed it when he said, "difficulty is added beyond miles and vertical."  Coney + Cataract makes for a true wild card over halfway through the race.  If you get part way through those segments and chased down by a storm, (and the only place to go is straight down!), rejoining the route where you left it becomes supremely difficult.  Seriously, you could die - likely from a lightning strike - no exaggeration.  I just want to emphasize and drive home that fact as much as possible.  Just because it's a "race" doesn't mean you should be pushing on through terrain and conditions where you would normally take shelter.  Carrying enough food from B.V. (or Mt. Princeton hot springs if you're timing is good) is problematic at best.  It becomes even worse if you get pinned down for an additional day.

[Stefan_G]

June is the only time I will be able to do it.

Bummer about that.  I'm definitely interested to hear how it goes for you, especially with respect to the snow.  When I tried first week of July '05 (a pretty big late-season snow year), Copper-->Breck, Searle-->Kokomo, Molas-->Blackhawk, and Indian Trail Ridge where all impassable.  I didn't try, but I'm 100% sure Coney Summit was too.

As far as racing/route/records go, anyone is free to ITT the route anytime they want.  As long as you follow the same rules that racers follow (http://www.climbingdreams.net/ctr/ctr_rules.html), your time will be included in any results as such.

Even if the route does change this year, I still intend on keeping records of times for people challenging the old route.  Owen Murphy set the bar incredibly high last year, and he also set a standard in terms of honestly announcing his intentions, and using a SPOT to indicate his progress.  SPOT data or a GPX track certainly lends credibility to any ITT effort, especially if the time claimed is far superior to the course record.

Best of luck with your June attempt, and if you do have a SPOT, I'm sure there are many people on this board who would love to watch your progress!

[KO]

.  When I tried first week of July '05 (a pretty big late-season snow year), Copper-->Breck, Searle-->Kokomo, Molas-->Blackhawk, and Indian Trail Ridge where all impassable.  I didn't try, but I'm 100% sure Coney Summit was too.

I can't remember how much snow we got in '05 so how would you compare it to this year so far.  We've gotten a lot of snow here in April on the front range.

[/quote]
Best of luck with your June attempt, and if you do have a SPOT, I'm sure there are many people on this board who would love to watch your progress!
[/quote]

I'm thinking about getting a spot.  I doubt anyone would wanna watch me progress.  You, Jefe and Ethan would be like the hare and, um, I wouldn't even be the turtle, more like the sloth.  I read your reports and there's no way I can ride at all hours of night like you and go sleep deprived.  I'm doing it more for the bikepacking experience rather than the race.

[Stefan_G]

Hard to compare '05 and '09 by memory, but fortunately we have some scientific data.    These are all on (or near) the CT.  Looks like it the snowpack gets less deep as you go south.

Copper Mountain Snotel:  http://www.cbrfc.noaa.gov/snow/station/sweplot/sweplot.cgi?yrList=2009&yrList=2005&stationList=CPMC2&monly=0&tavg=s&hsim=&index=&dbsvr=&indextitle=Untitled

Independence Pass:
http://www.cbrfc.noaa.gov/snow/station/sweplot/sweplot.cgi?yrList=2009&yrList=2005&stationList=IDPC2&monly=0&tavg=s&hsim=&index=&dbsvr=&indextitle=Untitled

Molas Pass Snotel:
http://www.cbrfc.noaa.gov/snow/station/sweplot/sweplot.cgi?yrList=2009&yrList=2005&stationList=MLSC2&monly=0&tavg=s&hsim=&index=&dbsvr=&indextitle=Untitled

Here's an old tripreport with pics to give you an idea of the snow in '05.  I guess it was the last week of June, not the 1st week of July:
http://www.climbingdreams.net/life/2005/ct/

[ETURK]

Can anyone suggest what amount of calories/days of minimal/suggested food required, assuming being required to bunker down 1 day before passing Mordor (Conery + Cataract)?

If possible to get a good forecast, I'll be watching the weather carefully the week of the attempt!   

[ETURK]

I won't mind camping out a day before Conery + Cataract, if required, assuming my belly doesn't mind. If you can really pinpoint the weather, might be wise to camp a day in Mt. Princeton hot springs? But that doesn't seem likely ah?

Very exciting, counting the days myself! 

[TimG!]

The Coney/Cataract addition would be a intense to say the least.  It is very possible that "you might die" as wookieone stated.  Here's a story to hopefully convey that message.

In 2000 my beloved canine and I attempted a thru-hike of the CT.  On a couple sections my soon to be wife joined us for a few nights.  The three of us were making our way towards Coney on foot.  It was a partly cloudy day and a small looking storm seemed to be brewing in the distance maybe 8-10 miles away.  I kept my attention locked on this while still trying to cover ground quickly.  Having already made it this far on the CT I felt confident in gauging storm distance and strength so I figured we would be able to make it over Coney and down the other side before the storm found us.  However, this was not the case.   In the span of about 10-15 minutes after I first noticed the clouds gathering there was the first flash of lightning in the distance.  This was are cue to move it or lose it.  We literally ran downslope with fully loaded packs to the nearest "shelter" which was nothing more than a small patch of willow shrubs.  This could not have taken more than a couple minutes as we were still well above treeline and the storm was already on top of us with sideways hail and lightning closing in quickly.

We quickly crawled into the willows with my wife laying on our dog and me laying on both of them and a tarp draped over all of us.  Almost immediately the lightning was very close to us and the pea sized hail was beginning to accumulate on the ground.  There would be a flash and before the flash was actually gone there was ear drum vibrating thunder.   Also mixed in was the sound and feel of the lightning striking the ground within a hundred yards or so of us.  After one or two of these flashes, sonic booms, and strikes we both honestly assumed that we would all die.    My wife was screaming, my dog trembling and the storm kept pounding us for about 15 minutes.  For that time which felt like an eternity I kept waiting for the bolt of lightning that would take us out.  I honestly 100% felt like that was it and what I remember thinking was the search and rescue would have an extremely difficult time finding our bodies way up here in the shrubs and covered with a green tarp. 

The storm then blew out nearly as fast as it gathered.  We were left with about 2 inches of hail covering the surrounding area.  We were too exhausted and emotionally spent to even move, so we spent the night right there just happy to be alive.  The next day we decided to not continue on over Coney and into the Weminuche.  We bashwacked down Kitty Creek and finally to some lake and then back to civilization. 


Sorry to make this so long but........yes "you might die."

[ETURK]

TimG! - What month of the year did that happen to you?

[KO]

Wow!  Amazing story Tim.  I've seen documentaries on lightning about people being struck from distances greater than 25 miles away.

[wookieone]

Yeah what TimG said..., seriously I got hit big time up on Coney's hiking the CT and it went from horizontal rain to snow in a second, my friend and I huddled under a tarp till our fingers were numb and then we asked ourselves "how long does it take to set up the Tent". We then ran down slope a tad to get off the ridge, then set up tent and spent the next 18 hours eating, cooking, warming up and waiting for clear skies. We got the clear skies, hit the trail and in an hour another storm it and we stumbled over the summit, made fire and were happy to be low and warm again.  Bottom line is Coney's is one of those micro-climates that is very volitile and vicious, I know of lots of similiar situations/experiences, this is a huge crux......