CTR: A few specific questions...

[JReeves]

Alright, well I've been doing a ton of research to get ready for the CTR in July 2012.  I've read through countless threads on here, Trailforums.com, backpackinglight.com, and several blogs...  I'm still left with a few specific questions that I haven't found answers to. 
So I'm turning to you guys, those of you that have done it, and those of you who are preparing to do it and might have information to contribute.
Here's a little info to help you answer my questions:
-I'm planning on completing the race in under 6 days.
-I'll be riding a single-speed titanium 29er.
-I weight 145lbs, and plan on having all my gear under 20 pounds(without water, so add 10 pounds for 4L of water)=185 pounds max on/attached to the bike.

1)  Navigation:  Is a GPS necessary, or worth it?  I have ordered the CT Guidebook, and Data-Book.  I plan on purchasing the complete Map Book, and other detailed maps if I'm not comfortable with the ones in the book.  I'm comfortable navigating off of a map, and from what I've read/seen, the trail is fairly easy to stay on and navigate.  I plan on breaking the route into 5 segments(one per day) on small "cue sheets" with notations for water, elevation profile, etc...  And then will have full maps with me should I need them.  A GPS seems like something that would get little use and not worth the weight or hassle.  I ask because I don't own one at this point, and won't purchase one unless it's justified. 

2)  Water Filtration:  I currently use a Katadyn Hiker Pro on my bikepacking and backpacking trips.  It only weighs 12 ounces, but isn't exactly tiny.  In an effort to get my gear as light as possible, I'm wondering if it's necessary.  I know that tablets are a lighter option, but the convenience factor of the instant clean water might be worth the weight penalty to me.  I plan on having a 2 Liter bladder in my frame bag, as well as a 2 Liter bladder on my back.  I also have two 1 Liter Platypus bags that I will take for the drier stretches.  What is the water drinkability and availability like during the race?  What other systems/techniques have you used in the past races?

3)  Shelter/Sleep System:  I have several options for my shelter and sleep system.  I own a GoLite Shangri La that weighs in at under 2 pounds with poles, stakes, and everything.  This gives me a completely enclosed shelter that is dry and warm.  I've used it in the past, and it's comfortable, but I'm thinking it might be overkill for the race, and also more bulky than many options.  I'm now thinking that a bivy with or without a tarp makes more sense.  Not only for size and weight, but also simplicity.  I know that after 16 hours in the saddle, setting up a tent is the last thing that is going to sound fun, despite only taking a few minutes.  With as little sleep as I know will be had, simple sounds enticing.  Should I go for a fully waterproof bivy and call it done?  Or should I get a water-resistant bivy and pair it with a tarp?  Each of those options will be less than a pound, and quicker/easier to set up after a long day.  Just a waterproof bivy is what I'm leaning towards, figuring that if it's really raining hard, I could find shelter of some sort, even if it required some creativity.  This is also subjective to the weather report leading up to the race.  I plan on taking the Shangri La shelter to Colorado, and leaving it in Denver with the car should the weather look forgiving and dry.

4)  Tires/Suspension:  There are threads regarding tire choice for the GDMBR, but I haven't found much for the CTR.  First off, has anyone ridden the CTR with a rigid fork?  I have a matching Titanium fork coming with my frame, it will have extra water bottle mounts that I might use with Salsa Anything cages for this event.  Or, should I plan on running suspension up front?  Obviously, tire choice depends on fork selection.  If it's do-able rigid, I plan on a large volume front tire.  From reading, the Maxxis Ardent 2.4 is a great option for a rigid bike in CO.  I'm not sure what trail conditions are like as a whole.  Obviously over the 500 miles you see a huge diversity of terrain, so picking one tire to suit them all is tough.  So, What tires have you used and would you use again? 

Thus far, these are the major questions I have, although I'm sure I'll have a few more pop up along the process...  Thank you all for the help in advance!  Only 7 months away!!!

[gregclimbs]

...

1)  Navigation:  Is a GPS necessary, or worth it? ...

If you have navigation awareness, not entirely necessary.  But I have grown accustomed to the purple squiggly line and it is good reassurance you are where you think you are...  It is a personal choice.

2)  Water Filtration:  I currently use a Katadyn Hiker Pro...

I have one and carried it.  Will do so again this year.  Hate the bulk, hate tablet taset, love the function and don't ever want to stress over water.

3)  Shelter/Sleep System:  I have several options for my shelter and sleep system....

I like bivies as I grew accustomed to them from climbing.  If you aren't claustrophobic, I find the ease, speed, low weight and bug free nature out weight the benefits of a tarp.  But it is a very personal choice.  Go with what you like.  You can be well served with whatever setup.  Just know the limitations, and use what you plan to in practice.

4)  Tires/Suspension:  There are threads regarding tire choice for the GDMBR, but I haven't found much for the CTR....

I too am ti ss 29er.  I run a sus fork and would recommend it for ctr.  As a ss'er, I like traction and choose tires that provide it.  I also like larger volume tires for the squish.  But that is personal as well.  Last year I rode wtb wolverines and liked them.  I have since changed to bronsons and like them even better (traction wise).  And that is probably what I will run this year.

[JReeves]

Thank you for taking the time to reply Greg!  Awesome input!  Regarding the Bronsons; do you run them tubeless?
I realized after posting it, that it was a lengthy set of questions, so I was hoping I wouldn't scare people off with too much reading...  For those of you with input, don't hesitate to offer up a reply to even just one of the questions.  Anything helps, as a first timer I'm just looking for a few pointers.
-thanks!

[gregclimbs]

I ran the wolverines tubeless on wtb rims, and the bronsons tubeless on stans rims.

The biggest thing I can say, and why I failed last year, has been said before.

Operating on a timeline/deadline will cause you to fail.  I got to day two and was behind.  To the point I would not make my 6d goal and wouldn't have a bail opportunity like the one that was in front of me.  With a fresh divorce and potential custody problems, I couldn't be late.  So I took the early out.

Also, for me, on the ss, the first day was demoralizing because there was more walking than I thought there would be at the beginning.  Dunno if this will change this year as it sounds like waterton is going to open, and the guidebook makes it sound a lot easier than the detour.

I plan to run a lot lighter this year and just do without.  Probably stove-less.  Hot coffee slows you down.  Comfort slows you down.  If I want some, I'll have to get it at a stop along the way.

When I got home from 2011, the first thing I did was copy my 2011 spreadsheet as 2012 and removed everything I thought I could do without while it was fresh on my mind.

[bikpdlr]

I like bivies as I grew accustomed to them from climbing.  If you aren't claustrophobic, I find the ease, speed, low weight and bug free nature out weight the benefits of a tarp.  But it is a very personal choice.  Go with what you like.  You can be well served with whatever setup.  Just know the limitations, and use what you plan to in practice.

Some questions from an "East Coaster" new to bivy sacks.  Upon Matt Lee's recommendation, I bought and read "Book of the Bivy" which had a ton of great information.  I'm still curious about a few things specific to bivy camping out West though ...

Before I read the book, I bought a Marmot Alpinist Bivy and a Western Mountaineering down sleeping bag.  Afterwards, I learned that down bags and bivys aren't the best idea but can work if you let the bivy breathe.

I have to admit that the first night I slept outside, I couldn't figure out why my "breathable" bivy didn't breathe when I zipped it up.  DANG !!! I should have read that skull and crossbones warning label right by the zipper to figure that one out.

If you have to leave the zipper un-zipped to breath what do you do about bugs and critters that might fly or crawl into your bivy?  Is that even an issue?  At what altitude are bugs a non-issue?

If a synthetic bag is better for bivy camping, what stuffs down super-small and super-light and fits onto the bike?  My synthetic Cat's Meow is 3 times bigger and heavier than my Highlite.

I read that you can position your bivy beside your bike and hook the unzipped portion over your handlebars to let air in and out.  So, I would imagine that is a good rainy night strategy...

Obviously, humidity is much less of an issue out West and I imagine that wet bags and bivys dry out much quicker?  I there a good rule of thumb time frame for drying out your gear.  Is a laundromat a quicker solution?

Oh my ... we new bikepackers have SO MUCH to learn.

[gregclimbs]

I used a BD spotlight bivy and a marmot down bag.  The spotlight has a pole, a bug screen and a full closure.  So in anything short of torrential downpour, you can leave the bugscreen closed and I had little to no condensation (the mesh is simultaneously a bug screen and condensation vent).

I did seam seal the entire bathtub of the bivy as well so if it was raining buckets groundwater wouldn't wet out my bag.

Any condensation in the bag should be easy to dry out if there is sun, just take bag out at lunch and lay in the sun...

g

[bikpdlr]

The Spotlight covers all the bases...

I've got an old Marmot "Home Alone" that has a shock-corded hoop for overhead that I could incorporate into "Alpinist", but I'd also have to sew in a bug net as well.

I really appreciate the info ...

[Joliver]

My two cents...

1.  GPS - Last year I brought along a GPS and the CT Databook as backup.  Well, fairly early in the morning on day 2 I was cruising down into Camp Hale when my GPS ejected.  I didn't see it eject, but when I looked down it was gone. I spent about 30 minutes looking for it, but wasn't able to locate it.  Fortunately, I had the data book, because even though the CT is well marked, there are definitely places where you can get lost (signs are down, you are riding at night and the turn off is virtually undectable in the small beam of your headlight, etc).  However, I didn't have an odometer, which makes using the data book a bit more difficult and imprecise.  So, I found myself consulting my data book probably 20 plus times per day to ensure that I was going the right direction.  Due to the rain, I had to keep the data book in my pack, so each time I needed to consult it, I would have to stop, take my pack off, open the book, make sure I was going the right direction, put the book back into my pack, etc.  This was tough mentally.  Too, and perhaps even funnier, I found myself on several occasions on all fours with my head 6 inches from the ground attempting to determine which direction the tracks were going.  Despite that very scientific navigational method, I missed turns I believe 3 times and traveled for significant periods of time before realizing that I was lost and having to backtrack to the point that I missed the turn.  I calculated 5-7 hrs of extra riding b/c of that. 

In a nutshell, I say bring a gps unless you know the course.  You can definitely get by without it, but I don't think it is worth the extra anxiety.

2.  Water - I used an inline filter on my camelback and I doubled up with tablets.  It worked pretty well (i didn't get sick), but that required a lot of water weight on my back.  My pinky fingers and ring fingers are still slightly numb, and I attribute a lot of that to the weight on my shoulders.  I think you could probably get by with just drops, but last year was a big snow year, so there was plenty of clean, beautiful water all around.  Not sure that will be the case this year. 

3.  Sleeping - I used a pretty light REI bivy and a light bag.  That was fine for me.  I will probably keep the same system this year.

I hope this helps, and let me know if you have any other questions.
Jerry   

[sfuller]

My pinky fingers and ring fingers are still slightly numb, and I attribute a lot of that to the weight on my shoulders. 

Jerry,

Some completely unsolicited advice. Apologies in advance if you have looked into this.

I had similar issues after TransWisconsin in 2010, only it was my entire hand and I was unable to grip anything solidly unless I was looking at it. I had good luck eliminating the issues with visits to a local sports massage therapist and an acupuncturist. If you still are having numbness issues, I'd get them looked at. Relief might be closer than you think. FWIW, your numbness is due to irritation of the ulnar nerve, which can get irritated fairly easily as it runs around the inside of the elbow joint.

Steve

[riverfever]

My 2 bits...

One of the most important things for me to decrease is stress. So...

1. I carry a GPS. The course is pretty well marked but there are some tricky spots along the route and when you're tired, dehydrated, malnourished, etc. it's just too easy to make a simple mistake that could end your race completely. I generally don't use mine a whole lot but it's nice to have when I know I'm not running right.

2. The same can be said for filtration for me. In 2008 I used tablets and did come down with Giardia. I've had it once before so I'm obviously a bit more sensitive than others might be but it's just not worth it for me to even do a really long day ride without my MSR filter. If I've got it, I never worry about getting water. I stay more hydrated and thus...more on point and less stressed out.

3. I used a hammock in 2008 and have since used 2 different bivies. I have an OR Alpine Bivy. I think it weighs 32 ounces with the poles but I leave them at home. I used this bivy in 2009 and would want nothing else in a car wash. I can zip it entirely closed in nasty weather but generally can get by with just draping it over my head and letting the rain run off it. I can also zip it closed with just the screen if the bugs are bad. A lot of the time here in Colorado, I will just sleep on top of the bivy or not even unpack it at all. However, the last 2 years have been pretty buggy and it's been nice to have. I have also used an REI Minimalist bivy. You can zip this up and be safe from the bugs but I have had to get creative with my rain jacket and some para cord to make a small tarp in a storm and this sucks. Always try to make gear do multiple things. No sense in lugging along a tarp when the jacket does the trick in most storms. Black Pedaler...out here we can have mosquitos but sometimes the deer flies are even worse though. Totally depends on the year. I've dealt with them at all altitudes. Generally, we don't have things that are gonna slip into your bivy during the night. Also...if your stuff does happen to get moist from weather or condensation, most will pack it up wet then ride a few hours until things heat up and then stop for a snack and spread the bag and bivy out. It will dry in 15-20 minutes.

Hope this helps. It's an amazing adventure.

 

[Joliver]

Jerry,

Some completely unsolicited advice. Apologies in advance if you have looked into this.

I had similar issues after TransWisconsin in 2010, only it was my entire hand and I was unable to grip anything solidly unless I was looking at it. I had good luck eliminating the issues with visits to a local sports massage therapist and an acupuncturist. If you still are having numbness issues, I'd get them looked at. Relief might be closer than you think. FWIW, your numbness is due to irritation of the ulnar nerve, which can get irritated fairly easily as it runs around the inside of the elbow joint.

Steve

Steve,

Thanks a lot for the advice.  That is encouraging.  I have recently been visiting a chiropracter who specializes in active release.  This definitely seems to be helping.  I might try and combine that with acupuncture as well. 

Anyway, I really appreciate it.

-Jerry

[bikpdlr]

Hope this helps. It's an amazing adventure. 

It most certainly does ... so many on BP.net makes it impossible NOT to "Pay it Forward".

It takes alot of Q&A to wrap my head around anything new... Thanks !!!

[JReeves]

I'm loving the input guys!  Thank you!  Keep them coming, I'm sure I'm not alone in the "first-timer" arena...

-Regarding the time goal thing; I'm kind of setting this as a hope, and a personal goal.  I'll be perfectly content, and prepared, for it to take 7, 8, or 9 days.  I'm going to take extra time off of work for just that reason.  I completely understand how that time line for completion could mentally defeat you early on, and in turn get the better of you.

-I'm definitely planning on a light kit, in hopes of longer days in the saddle with less fatigue. 

-It sounds like the water filter is a "must" have.  The piece of mind it affords you is worth the extra few ounces. 

-GPS;  It's surprising to me that most(in the few responses made here) carry one.  I haven't made the purchase yet, but I have looked into them before.  I can definitely see it being a comfort, and huge convenience, and as mentioned, could in the end, save hours of riding.  JOliver, I loved the visual of you on all fours inspecting the tire tracks!!!  Time to start doing some research into these I suppose.  Recommendations for a GPS Device are welcomed.  In the past when I was shopping for them, I noticed the lack of support for Mac computers(which is all I own), so that's a biggie for me.

-Bivy;  I think I'm going to go for it.  I've been eyeballing the MYOG section of backpackinglight.com and it seems that a pretty solid bivy can be made for less than it can be bought, and also at a lighter weight.  The simplicity is probably the key factor in this for me.  Roll it out, and crawl in/on.  With the addition of a Western Mountaineering Summerlite bag, I'm hoping to get the sleep system down to under 3 lbs...

[bikpdlr]

In the past, I've owned a Garmin 60Cs and an Edge 500 and I'm pretty familiar with Garmin products.

But 3 months ago I bought the new eTrex 30 and it gets the job done...

The eTrex syncs up with my chest strap (heart rate) and displays heart rate right on the screen if/when I want it.  It has an alarm clock that wakes the unit up so that it can wake me up.  Battery life with fresh lithium batteries is better than advertised.  The user interface is very simple and intuitive.  The bike mount is solid and uses two zip ties and a design that allows for vertical (i.e. stem) or horizontal (i.e. handlebar) mounting.

Best of all, it not only utilizes the US constellation of GPS satelites, but it's also Garmin's first unit that simultaneously tracks Russia's GLONASS constellation as well.  Accuracy is super tight.  You can disable GLONASS if you like.

I picked everything up off of Amazon and saved a bundle.  Here's a link ... http://www.amazon.com/Garmin-eTrex-Worldwide-Handheld-Navigator/dp/B00542NVS2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1325299453&sr=8-1

Don't forget to pick up the Garmin Southwest topo DVD on Amazon as well ... http://www.amazon.com/Garmin-MapSource-Southwest-Topographic-Coverage/dp/B001RYK0JE/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1325299575&sr=1-1
 
As you can tell I really dig this new unit ... it served me well at CFiTT in November.

[mtnbound]

After reading about the digestive issues that knocked two of the top contenders out in 2011 (though due from food/drink from a store in Bailey), I agree that its worth the extra weight for the water filter for peace of mind.

I was looking into gps too.  The etrex 20 or 30 look good.  There is free mapping topo software available but not sure about the mac issue.  Good luck!

[bikpdlr]

The eTrex 30 has an omni-directional compass and altimeter.

It also is the only model that incorporates the ANT+ option which allows the use of the chest strap and a speed/cadence sensor.  It will not use the GSC10 for speed, however, if you wanted to record either heart rate or cadence for any reason, the eTrex 30 has that option.

Another great option is that a track can have upto 10,000 points and it DOES NOT have to be broken up into (20) 500 point tracks.  Load all 10,000 points in there at once, tell the Garmin to "Show on Map" and that's it.  On my GPSMap 60Cs, I had to load all 20 segments to see the full route.

Also, it doesn't take pictures, but it does store pictures that you can view if you like.  Pics of the trail, your family ... whatever you like.

Amazon has it for $50 bucks off with no tax and free shipping (last I checked).

[anth]

Hi guys! Figured I'd chime in as well but as a CTR rookie this year, realize my thoughts come from someone who hasn't done the race but has a good amount of experience in the mountains from climbing/riding. In case it helps to put my thoughts in context:
-I'll be riding a custom steel 29er hardtail 1x10 with suspension
-I'm about 140lbs
-Goal is to finish in 5-6 days (personal goal here, not something I'm bound by)

1) GPS: As a newbie, I'm def bringing the gps. I'll also have some select maps and the databook but the ease of mind and speed in navigating are worth it to me. I wouldn't want to make a big navigational mistake at a crucial point in my race and have that be the reason I don't make it. I haven't bought one yet but am planning on getting the eTrex 20. Color screen, buttons (i.e. no touchscreen), eTrex line established as great for bikepacking with replaceable batteries, and not too expensive. I'm not spending the extra $$ on the 30 because I already have a compass/altimeter on my watch. I use macs as well but am not a huge techno geek so as long as I can load it on another pc when needed, I'm fine without a bunch of software to play with.

2) Water filter vs Tablets: I've been thinking about this as well and while I have both, I'm leaning towards the filter right now. If I come across water in the race, I want to be able to stop, filter, fill up, and go with drinkable water then and there. I DONT want to be dehydrated and waiting for a tablet to work while being tempted to drink it. Everyone has things they do without to be light/fast but for me, I think having quick, reliable, albeit bulky water treatment will make me faster, not slower.

3) I'm with greg on this one. Coming from a climbing background, I am perfectly happy in a small bivy so I'm planning on that route for shelter. I've got a Marmot Alpinist which I got pretty cheap, is waterproof, and as long as I sleep with the hood well ventilated, minimal condensation issues. They are small, light, and take a minimum of time to set up and get sleeping. Like others mentioned, there are various tricks like using a jacket or your handlebars to keep vented in the rain. If it's not raining, I just sleep in the open and use it as a ground cloth under my bag. It might not be the most comfortable or spacious but that's what I'm used to so it doesn't bother me all too much. If the weather looks like a ton of rain, I might also bring a tarp for extra coverage but that will be a game time decision days before the race. I'll be using a light weight marmot down bag as it's light/small/warm and if it gets a bit damp, will dry out fairly quick in warm, dry colorado air.

4) Tires are something I'm still up in the air about. I'm leaning towards a tire with good sidewall protection over a light race tire for obvious reasons. With that said, I rode/raced all summer in Colorado on Maxxis Ikons with EXO sidewall protection (tubeless on AM Classic wheels) and they have been super tough for the weight with zero issues. Traction was just fine and they did fairly well in the mud. I like the look of the Conti X-King Protection too (if they ever get the 29er version out...). Anyone else have tire thoughts for the race?

5) Time limit: I agree with others here about a time limit. I've got some personal goals for a finishing time and racing but feel that if I set a certain absolute goal I HAD to meet, it wouldn't be good mentally or physically.

One thing I did want to ask folks about who've done the race is number of shorts. I'm torn between bringing 1 or 2 pairs of shorts. Obviously it might be nice to have 2 pair to switch/wash/etc but is it worth the weight and hassle for a race of this length?

Yikes! Long post but I find any info here helpful so just trying to contribute as well. See you at the end of July @ Waterton!

Cheers
anthony
 

[bartspedden]

As for # of shorts, my notes from last year read "gore shorts were awesome - 1 pair not enough - bring 2" - on either day 4-5 I got red sores in my groin. I cleaned myself up each night with wet-ones, but eventually, I got an infection.  Neosporin at night kept things from getting out of control combined with ample chamois butt'r while riding, but a 2nd pair of shorts would been dreamy! I'm a slower guy though.  So, I guess my point is that it's probably more important to have solid cleanliness strategy and a plan for dealing with any unpleasantries.  That might mean a 2nd pair of shorts, or maybe just a better way of keeping things clean.  I also didn't shower or hotel during the race. At one point I actually got a little scared because I was nearing the end of my tube of chamois buttr'.

[jryter]

Just a note with water.... I was a little worried about running out at the start but after a while I just carried about 70 oz or less using a steripen to sterilize. Fill up more but less weight. There are only a few spots where it is scarce. Some guys just figure that after they get giardia they are more resistant to it. So you could just go out and expose yourself before hand!

I didn't use a GPS. I knew most of the trail past BV pretty well. Still i did get mixed up at 2:30am coming into Durango for a bit..... There is almost always a CT marker down the trail after an intersection a few yards.  I did print maps of the detours. These are the places where there aren't markers. These are also the places that it can be good to check out if you get a chance. Notably the entrance after Leadville detour is hard to find the trail again.  Also you can look on google map street view for critical intersections like the old rail road grade coming into BV. There is a large white metal building...

I used a tarp and a mylar emergency bivy if it got really bad. Really you can find some pretty dry spots under trees or in abandoned shacks...

I mailed a spare pair of shorts to Silverton to change. If you get there in the daytime. By the way a guy was setting up a mini bike shop in a cafe there when I went through. I wonder if he is still doing it next summer?

Bike.... make sure it is easy to get on and off of. I was glad I took my full suspension.. Because it had a low top tube. You'll get off and on to hike more than you can imagine. 29er is the way to go for the rocky spots where Jerry almost got eaten by the mt lion! My Bontrager 29-2 tubless tires worked well.

Numbness... My toes are still a little numb. Shoes didn't have much padding.

Oh yeah carry more food than you think after Buena Vista. You body is really starting to suck in the calories after 2-3 days of hard riding. And carry spare brake pads....

good luck!

[Yogi the Barry]

Perhaps all subsequent CTR 2012 postings can post to this "CTR 2012 Planning" thread...

http://www.bikepacking.net/forum/index.php/topic,2616.0.html