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  Topic Name: Durango to Denver: A Thru-race of the Colorado Trail Reply #40 on: September 25, 2013, 12:35:41 PM
fastmtnbiker33w

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« Reply #40 on: September 25, 2013, 12:35:41 PM »

I'm going to make a movie about the CTR and make a million effing dollars.  It's going to be awesome.  Toby will hate it.  I'll donate nothing and take a trip around the world with my profits.  I'll have to hire people to run my custom bag business since I won't know what to do with all the money I'll make from all the shops wanting my stuff.  I'll buy a sweet overlander with enough bike racks to hold all my bikes, my wife's bikes, my kid's bikes, and Toby's bikes.  He can ride on top like granny in the movie Vacation.

Seriously though...it would make a much better movie than those "other" movies we all know about.  The CTR is awesome and it is a commercial asset to Colorado and to the relevant industries tied to backpacking and bikepacking.  Communities aren't funding these trails just to make people feel good and healthy and all that hippie shit.  They are doing it because it brings $$$ to the communities.  I spent $50 in BV and $50 in Silverthorne during my ride.  It may not seem like much, but it all adds up.

I think our "free for all" is coming to an end in regards to much of ultra endurance racing.  Those lodges on the Divide are stoked to see 100+ people line up in Canada.  That means $$$ to them. 

Since I was faster than Grizzly, I feel no need to read his story.  I've read enough from all the others.  Some are terribly frustrating reads about frustrating experiences.  I'm glad people share, but I'm only reading things for route beta now.  Anything else is fluff and needs to be on the big screen for all the fluffies out there who need to be inspired. Hitting people up on these forums and facebook hits very few people that are already kind of in the choir.  They're going to get into bikepacking eventually....they just need to get a few more cross seasons or short track race series out of their systems. It's getting that fatass on the couch who drives his car-that-looks-like-a-car to work everyday motivated to change his life that makes a difference in our world.  Putting Adam's story in real print and making sure it winds up in doctors' and dentists' offices all over Mississippi and Texas (two really obese states) might inspire a change.....if his story is that good.

My advice is to not worry about getting validation from us.  Get that thing in print in some other cheesy ass magazine that walmartians grab at the check out counter.
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  Topic Name: Durango to Denver: A Thru-race of the Colorado Trail Reply #41 on: September 25, 2013, 01:49:10 PM
GrizzlyAdam


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« Reply #41 on: September 25, 2013, 01:49:10 PM »

That's a righteous rant!  thumbsup
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  Topic Name: Durango to Denver: A Thru-race of the Colorado Trail Reply #42 on: September 25, 2013, 09:12:37 PM
wookieone


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« Reply #42 on: September 25, 2013, 09:12:37 PM »

I paid 3$ and enjoyed every minute of it....thanks Adam
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  Topic Name: Durango to Denver: A Thru-race of the Colorado Trail Reply #43 on: September 29, 2013, 09:03:13 AM
Woodland


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« Reply #43 on: September 29, 2013, 09:03:13 AM »

I have to be honest, who gives a shit how much Adam charges for his book? The CTR will never be a Leadville 100 - it doesn't matter how many people make videos or write books about it, it's very nature (challenging us to experience a solo endeavor like nothing else) it's terrain, and it's participants (soul seekers, self-doubters, restless loners, quiet fighters - ok some of us are a little more 'together' than others) will never allow it to become a big media blitz.  It will (I think) always, always be a locals race...and I think that's why we all love it!

Either way you slice it (Toby camp, non-Toby camp) it doesn't really matter. I think what matters is that Adam's book has the potential to change people's lives...I'm serious. I read Jon Billman's 2007(?) article in Outside magazine about a rag tag group of dudes racing the Divide and it literally changed my life. I devoted - and continue to devote - every moment, thought and dollar to getting myself to be a bike packer because I had never heard of a more awesome way to cover ground.

Why should the CTR be a mystery to people who don't have a close tie to it somehow? I think if Adam's book fell into some kids hands (like Jon Billman's article did in mine) than he has been successful on so many levels. Does he have to charge for it? Stupid debate, it's his material, his to do what he wants with it.

Back to the book, my experiences pre-trail race Adam are so similar to you that I am reading your book as if it was written about me. Kids, jobs, nervous excitement, every single ride being a step closer the CTR, seriously doubting my intention to even race in such a thing (ok, maybe that one is all me) every waking moment wondering about your ability, planning, pre-riding, overnight testing.

The only thing I am left wondering is this: Is it easier to do it with a friend (or with other people)? Or is it truly the ultimate challenge to do it on your own. I have tackled it twice now and FAILED. And I hate that, but attempting it ITT style is the true expression of self-supported bikepack racing and the true test.

Thanks for the read Adam. And damn impressive ride.
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  Topic Name: Durango to Denver: A Thru-race of the Colorado Trail Reply #44 on: September 29, 2013, 11:11:34 AM
Done


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« Reply #44 on: September 29, 2013, 11:11:34 AM »

I'd rather have a GPS track that cost me $5 that is curated and correct than something that someone put together in 5 minutes for free.

If people share stuff for free great, but there are MANY MANY MANY times I'd rather pay a few bucks for more quality than the free equivalent.
Yeah, my GPS tracks sucks, and it would be better if someone got their act together and started selling something decent before I die of embarrassment. For that matter, the whole CTR sucks, and would absolutely benefit from entry fees, sponsors, and podium girls. As for all of those "free" blogs?--utter crap compared to Adam's book (which wouldn't be half as good if it were free, even with the same words!).

You're totally right. We really should start taking cues from online poker. Damn, I wish that I had thought of that! Without any "skin in the game," the ultra-racing scene is pathetic compared to even to the limited visceral thrill of Vegas--never mind the primal satisfaction of pumping "real" money into virtual computer games! I think that I'll put some skin in the game and skip today's ride.

The more money we soak into the sport, the better. The vibe of friends sharing with friends is just a bunch of hippie smoke anyway. Friends without money suck. What goes around, comes around--so cough up some cold hard cash my way already!

I think that I've learned my lesson. The sooner that I monetize my CTR experiences, the happier and more fulfilled I'll be. I'm going to slather myself in logos and the American flag--and stick a "Donate Here" button on my ass.

 thumbsup
« Last Edit: September 29, 2013, 11:30:13 AM by TobyGadd » Logged

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  Topic Name: Durango to Denver: A Thru-race of the Colorado Trail Reply #45 on: September 29, 2013, 12:50:27 PM
fastmtnbiker33w

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« Reply #45 on: September 29, 2013, 12:50:27 PM »

Paypal "Buy Now" buttons aren't to hard to set up.  If you need help, let me know. Wink
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  Topic Name: Durango to Denver: A Thru-race of the Colorado Trail Reply #46 on: September 29, 2013, 01:07:20 PM
dream4est


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« Reply #46 on: September 29, 2013, 01:07:20 PM »

I agree with Adam AND Toby.

Toby does not want this race to become a clusterfuck. Any extra press is bad press IMO. I get that. 140+ people is not what I want for the future of the CTR or AZT300/750.

Adam is a writer. Creating things is good. Sharing them is good. Selling things is even better if it works. Which it wont more than likely. Even if it is good, which it probably is. I wish you luck. I cant seem to sell an amazing creation (Pain/Chamois cream) to bikepackers/cyclists to save my life, but EVERYONE else loves it. So If I was Adam I would write books about fat people watching reality TV.
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  Topic Name: Durango to Denver: A Thru-race of the Colorado Trail Reply #47 on: October 01, 2013, 07:07:37 PM
joeydurango


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« Reply #47 on: October 01, 2013, 07:07:37 PM »

+1, Mark.  Count me out if this is going to be the next "big thing".  Do I sell bikepacking gear?  Yup - I love bikepacking/touring and I'm passionate about it, and I like to introduce new folks to it.  Do I lie in wait of the day this becomes THE way people ride mountain bikes?  Nope, that would be terrible (picture the "enduro-ization" of bikepacking).  I tend to agree with Woodland, though - the CTR will never be a Leadville 100.  Neither will bikepacking ever be enduro racing - Americans are too lazy for that!  And Mark, for what it's worth, I love the Geronimo cream.  Just haven't worked through more than a bottle yet.

Now I probably have to go follow that link and pony up the $3.  Did you include the part where I told you not to quit and that it got better after Marshall Pass?  I like to think that helped, cause you looked pretty crushed coming out of Tank 7.  Smiley
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  Topic Name: Durango to Denver: A Thru-race of the Colorado Trail Reply #48 on: October 01, 2013, 07:31:27 PM
Matt Schiff


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« Reply #48 on: October 01, 2013, 07:31:27 PM »


Now I probably have to go follow that link and pony up the $3.  Did you include the part where I told you not to quit and that it got better after Marshall Pass?  I like to think that helped, cause you looked pretty crushed coming out of Tank 7.  Smiley

I read it. That part is there.
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  Topic Name: Durango to Denver: A Thru-race of the Colorado Trail Reply #49 on: October 02, 2013, 09:13:48 AM
GrizzlyAdam


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« Reply #49 on: October 02, 2013, 09:13:48 AM »

Joey, I did include that. Your pep talk was a turning point for me.

Here's the section:

The sun sunk low. The storm moved on. The wind disappeared. Soft evening light filtered through the trees. We stumbled upon Joey Ernst, CTR vet, and the owner of Velorution Cycles in Durango, where the Colorado Trail Race had started three long days ago.
   "Where are you from?" he asked.
   "Highland, Utah," I replied, "where I think I'll be returning sooner than I had planned."
   "What do you mean?"
   "I'm done. I'm going to drop out at Marshall Pass."
   Joey looked at me with a mixture of pity and bewilderment. I could see pain and fatigue in his own eyes. "Don't do that.” he cautioned. “The trail gets better. There's a lot of great riding ahead of us after Highway 50."
   I stared blankly into the treetops. I didn't want to be talked into continuing. "And anyway," he concluded, "never quit on the day you want to. Sleep on it, and see how you feel tomorrow."
   Ty and I hiked through a grove of aspen trees. I hadn't seen an aspen tree since Los Pinos Pass. Immediately I felt better. The softly swaying branches and twinkling leaves filled me with light. I paused, and soaked up the pocket of life and energy. I smiled through the pain and blackness. The sunset illuminated the crowded peaks, turning them blue and purple on the horizon. The world melted into technicolored brilliance. I knew then, in that small stand of quaking aspens, that there was nothing but me preventing me from pedaling to Denver.
   As we laid out our sleeping bags, Jeff and Cameron continued into the dark. "We want to reach Marshall Pass before we stop for the night.” Jeff explained. We wished them well. I did not expect to see them again.
   I nestled into my bag while darkness settled over the hills. I was exhausted, battered, but vaguely optimistic. Like I did above Silverton, I wanted this adventure to end. But the task was not finished. The trail was not ridden. And as I long as it continued, I would need to travel its rocky paths. I came here to ride the Colorado Trail, and that's what I would do.
   I knew that days after I had reached Denver, when I was sitting at my desk, tapping away at the mundanities of life, that I would miss being on the trail. I knew, even then, curled up in my sleeping bag, that I would miss the simplicity of ride, eat, sleep. The Colorado Trail sold nothing cheaply. The brilliant moments at altitude, the speedy, dirty velvet singletrack, and the weightless passings through life-affirming aspen groves all came at a steep, stony price. Nothing was easy here. But the reward far exceeded the effort. The euphoria and the joy eclipsed the hurt and the sorrow. Underneath the doubt and pain I was dreading leaving this vertical world behind. I had spent years preparing to be here. Eventually my time on the CT would blink away, and I'd be home again, wishing I was riding through the San Juan Mountains, across Indian Trail Ridge, or hiking through thick forests.
   During the night, a few more riders hiked by our camp. They went silently through the trees and up the hill. They, like me, like all of us, were hurting. But forward, upward, they walked and pedaled. I felt a new kinship with my fellow racers that night as we put the haunted, joyless expanse of Sargents Mesa and the Cochetopa Hills behind us. We had each suffered deeply, but we did not let the mountain, or the wily demons lurking in the trees, beat us.
   I fell in and out sleep, looking forward to the new day.

---
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  Topic Name: Durango to Denver: A Thru-race of the Colorado Trail Reply #50 on: October 02, 2013, 06:43:18 PM
joeydurango


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« Reply #50 on: October 02, 2013, 06:43:18 PM »

Well shucks.  I was mostly joking about that part being in there - but I am truly glad that the little motivational speech helped.  Glad you finished, Adam!
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  Topic Name: Durango to Denver: A Thru-race of the Colorado Trail Reply #51 on: October 05, 2013, 08:56:04 AM
wookieone


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« Reply #51 on: October 05, 2013, 08:56:04 AM »

I noticed last year during the CTR that there were as many if not more bikepackers out on the CT as backpackers. Thought that was pretty cool, most were doing sections, taking their time. I love both bike and back-packing and any time I see more folks out on the CT, or anywhere else, I think it is a good thing. The CT changed my life, being outside changes my life everytime I get out. Anything that gets people out doing stuff is good, the CT will never be a crowded place, no one is ever going to make a lot of money on it. Adam's story just might inspire folks to get out there and see some of this world from the perspective of something other than car windshield. That is a good thing on all accounts.
Jefe
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  Topic Name: Durango to Denver: A Thru-race of the Colorado Trail Reply #52 on: October 05, 2013, 07:54:33 PM
aarond


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« Reply #52 on: October 05, 2013, 07:54:33 PM »

I agree with Toby, 
+1 for podium girls on the CTR.
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  Topic Name: Durango to Denver: A Thru-race of the Colorado Trail Reply #53 on: October 07, 2013, 11:53:28 AM
phil_rad


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« Reply #53 on: October 07, 2013, 11:53:28 AM »

I paid for the ebook too and I'm in the process of reading it. I thought I was done with this crazy multiday crap but I'm not so sure after reading it. :-) Might have to give it another shot.

Thanks Mr. Adams for putting your thoughts into words, well worth 3 bucks!

Phil
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  Topic Name: Durango to Denver: A Thru-race of the Colorado Trail Reply #54 on: October 08, 2013, 10:08:21 AM
GrizzlyAdam


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« Reply #54 on: October 08, 2013, 10:08:21 AM »

Thanks Mr. Adams for putting your thoughts into words, well worth 3 bucks!

Thanks!
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  Topic Name: Durango to Denver: A Thru-race of the Colorado Trail Reply #55 on: October 08, 2013, 03:46:17 PM
mikepro


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« Reply #55 on: October 08, 2013, 03:46:17 PM »

... even then, curled up in my sleeping bag, that I would miss the simplicity of ride, eat, sleep. The Colorado Trail sold nothing cheaply. The brilliant moments ...
---

"sold nothing cheaply"?  How fitting, given this discussion.  I like to think that was written before this discussion thread went long.

+1 for Geronimo cream, to Mark and Mark's wife.  I learned about it via the many Ultra forum posts on this site, and I tried it and like it.
+1 for charging a small-ass fee for an e-book, as it's clearly more than just a blog post.  I "tried it" by reading the free excerpts, and did not like it.  The writing is not my style, but seems it's met with good reviews.
+1 for sharing your VERY NICE high res pics, Adam.
+1 for donating your GPS tracks, Toby.  I only use free GPS as glitz and "eye candy", and rely on what I pay for first (maps, guide books, other GPS info, etc.).
+1 if you want to charge a small-ass fee for your GPS tracks, Toby.  It would add credibility, in my mind;  i.e., to me, they would no longer by just "eye candy" if I had to buy the track(s).  I my mind, no one would condemn you if you chose to charge a fee (except for maybe you, yourself) for the GPS info.  It's commendable that you give it away for free, but nothing more.
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  Topic Name: Durango to Denver: A Thru-race of the Colorado Trail Reply #56 on: October 08, 2013, 04:09:57 PM
Done


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« Reply #56 on: October 08, 2013, 04:09:57 PM »

+1 if you want to charge a small-ass fee for your GPS tracks, Toby.  It would add credibility, in my mind;  i.e., to me, they would no longer by just "eye candy" if I had to buy the track(s).  I my mind, no one would condemn you if you chose to charge a fee (except for maybe you, yourself) for the GPS info.  It's commendable that you give it away for free, but nothing more.
Thanks, but there's no way that I'm going to charge anyone--Stefan, Scott, you, anyone--for my GPX tracks. They are free because I am compelled to give back to a community that has given me so much. I don't need, want, or expect anything in return. Not money, not fame, not kudos, not "credibility." Nada.

Unless proven otherwise, I presume that any bikepacker that I come across is a friend. As such, I'd buy him a beer, give him a spare tube, fix his GPS, offer him a ride, print him some maps, give him a GPX file, etc. In a big and harsh world, where dollars and fame often matter more than kindness, I love the close-knit oasis that comes with small communities of people willing to share what they can. I don't need $ from my friends to feel good about myself. This isn't a Tupperware party, it's the CTR!

Edit: And, yes, I enjoy a good debate with friends. Preferably over a campfire, with a couple of beers, after a long day in the mountains. Web forums are a crappy substitute. Instead of sharing ideas, people end up slamming each other, choosing sides, etc. I think that I need to take a break.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2013, 04:18:38 PM by TobyGadd » Logged

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  Topic Name: Durango to Denver: A Thru-race of the Colorado Trail Reply #57 on: October 09, 2013, 11:43:28 PM
Gimmearaise


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« Reply #57 on: October 09, 2013, 11:43:28 PM »

I paid 3$ and enjoyed every minute of it....thanks Adam
Me too, great read. Thanks Adam!

I cant seem to sell an amazing creation (Pain/Chamois cream) to bikepackers/cyclists to save my life, but EVERYONE else loves it. So If I was Adam I would write books about fat people watching reality TV.

Got some before the AZT this year, worked wonders. Also used it on the CTR and a few other races! Thanks for a great product Mark!

Cant wait for next year!
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  Topic Name: Durango to Denver: A Thru-race of the Colorado Trail Reply #58 on: October 16, 2013, 08:09:20 PM
Joliver


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« Reply #58 on: October 16, 2013, 08:09:20 PM »

Adam, I haven't read your account, yet.  But, I intend to.  I don't mind the 3 bones.  You write beautifully.  Congrats!
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  Topic Name: Durango to Denver: A Thru-race of the Colorado Trail Reply #59 on: October 17, 2013, 08:57:01 PM
Dave-W


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« Reply #59 on: October 17, 2013, 08:57:01 PM »


 I cant seem to sell an amazing creation (Pain/Chamois cream) to bikepackers/cyclists to save my life, but EVERYONE else loves it. 

Just submitted my order - Thanks for the reminder

If you sell to much Toby may report you to the Bikepacker police for using this forum as an unauthorized way to get your product out to people who may actually want to use it - and would never knew it existed otherwise! 

I know what will make Toby happy - Adam give your book away for free but charge a $3 convenience fee for digital delivery.  Then everyone will be happy and we can all go ride using Toby's Free GPX

Bottom line is this - If you want something and it is useful to you and you can afford it, then buy it. If you don't want it, then ignore it just like 99% of all the banner adds you see on web sites. They are there to keep the site up and running. Just like this site does.

Choices, it is all about choices - Please don't tell me how or what I should spend my $ on in order to make you feel better about your choice not to buy a book.  BTW - I do not plan on buying Adam’s book, but I am glad I have the choice if I wanted to!
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