First Ever Arizona Trail Race

[ScottM]

Still in are Brad Kee + friend (can't remember name, sorry), Deanna Adams and Randy Mason.  Or at least those are who I know of right now.

Snow will not be an issue in the first 400 miles.  Not until after Payson.

[tRoy]

There will be more great rides for everyone that needs to pass on this 700+ mile ride. 
I am stoke that there are still contenders.  Hope everyone carrys a spot for us fans!

I've done a little bit of wondering around and my thinking right now is that anything above 8000ft MAY have snow or mudd on it.  Over 9000 will LIKELY have snow and mudd.  This is approximate  - you may find this limit lower or higher in certian geography.  It is melting fast and it could get a lot better in two weeks, about the time a very fast rider would make the Mogollon Rim. 


 

[Furgy]

I just heard from my sister who lives and works just east of Kaibab Plateau at Lee's Ferry Lodge.  Here's what she knows of conditions from the N. Rim to Jacob Lake:

"...from Jacob Lake to the Grand Canyon NP entrance gate has been plowed.  My old CPA now owns VT store (across the the highway from the Kaibab Lodge about five miles north of the entrance) and he and his wife went out there earlier this week.  In the front of the store the snow was up to the top of the gas pumps but other than that I have no idea.

I think the Park Service plows from the lodge to the entrance and have no idea if they have that done yet or not. 
 
I also heard from another person that around Jacob Lake in the sunny areas there is no snow but on the North facing sides or in areas of shade up to 2'.  This was from a guy that came by about a week ago.  The guy also said the dirt roads were still pretty muddy."

Good Luck!

[dream4est]

I am still in for sure. Just let us know when gpx and notes are ready Scott. I am psyched to ride some new stuff.

Mark C.

[ScottM]

I plotted the AZT from Payson to Flagstaff over today's snow model image.  Map from TopoFusion attached.

I cut the track and came up with about 35 miles that are currently on snowy pixels in the model. 

This doesn't include the 40+ miles on the north rim that are definitely covered, of course.

The big purple blob by Hutch Mountain (east side of FR3 before Mormon Mountain) is a little surprising -- according to the model there is more snow there than on the west side of the peaks, where the AZT is around 9000' for several miles.

1 week to race start, 1.5-2 before riders start hitting the snowy pixels.

[OurManInTheNorth]

Snow - assuming that is a mix of 3ft deep postholing in the centre and lighter cover towards the edges of the purple blobs, that actually seems not
too bad. It'll be slow going, and I guess could add days, especially as navigation becomes much harder without seeing the trails, but the distances seem reasonable. Is it the case that the North Rim northwards is almost definitely a road detour?

Maps - so I'm hoping to do some techno wizardry using TopoFusion etc in the next week and have an all singing all dancing GPS setup to follow for the full AZT. I'll also have the cues printed. Is that enough? On previous long rides I've had hard copy maps too, though thats easier with shorter rides and for longer touring round russia we were mostly on roads and used 1:100000 or worse. Looking at the USGS map site, you'd need at least 18 of the 1:24000 maps to follow the trail from border to border, which seems a little excessive. What is anyone else doing? Printing from TopoFusion or similar just the relevant bits? Carrying more maps than food and water?! Going to a much worse resolution scale map/maps (but does that show the trails we'll be on?)? Thoughts/ideas for a non-native would be great!

[AZTtripper]

Baring some kind of total GPS failure I would think that would be enough cue sheets a big bonus. After that I would go with copies of the Gazetteer style maps not that they show the trail but it will help with the big picture and off course resupply travel.   

[DaveH]

I had forgotten about user maps in TopoFusion.  They are quite useful for a virtual visualization of trail conditions for the 750.  I've used them in the past with national forest maps that show more extensive trail networks than the base topos.

Anyway, I'm assuming that is what Scott did in the above pic of course overlay with snowpack, I did a little writeup how this can be done for any GPX here:  http://2-epic.com/?p=1105.

[DeanHill]

I'm out for this running.   I'd like to do it in the fall when it's all ridable.   Did some riding south of flagstaff on the az trail 2 days ago.  There's alot of snow around morman mountain.  We left the trail and did a fire road on the north side of the mountain,  I day 4-6 miles of 95%+ pushing though deep snow.    I will be going up to check out the bismark lake section this week and will let you guys know.    Best of luck to everyone racing still.  If I can help anyone out with anything let me know.   I'd be happy to shuttle if needed, but I don't have a car so one would need to be provided.

Randy mason
randinihill@gmail.com

[ScottM]

Dave -- very nice.  Thanks for the beta on comparing the models to on-the-ground conditions.

Randy -- understood.  Any further reports would be appreciated.

To all:

Sorry for the delays, but I have the final GPX ready:

http://www.topofusion.com/azt/gpx/AZTR_v2.gpx

I was able to get some extra data for (dry) singletrack near the South Rim, as well as some additional pieces in places.  This caused some of the delay, though the main thing was finishing my degree.

Also, based on the models and reports, I have drawn the following files with snow detours.

http://www.topofusion.com/azt/gpx/AZTR-2010-snowdetours.gpx

I don't think there is any chance that Hutch Mtn, the Peaks or the North Rim will be worth "riding" by the time anyone gets there.  Mormon Mountain - maybe?  The Rim?  Well that's the first snow people will encounter and the detour would be very long, so I am suggesting giving it a go and see how it rolls.  That experience may make it easy to decide to take the other snow detours.

I think all of the detours I drew are acceptable, for race purposes, this year.  It will be noted in the results that this was a high snow year and the detours will be spelled out.  But, the ride still goes on!

Cues are almost done.  I'm past Flagstaff, and once around the peaks it's pretty much just AZT and relatively well signed.

Stay tuned, more coming.

[ScottM]

Also, the Hutch Mountain detour has two options.  The further north one is the "AZT" according to the ATA.  Every time I have been there it is just signs that take you through the woods (no trail), but it is lower, south facing and possibly snow free (the main GPX files goes much higher and into the snow).  So you might try that.  But the road bail out to Happy Jack is fine too.

[ScottM]

OK, cues are now available:

http://www.topofusion.com/azt/race-route.php

There is simply one cue file for both the AZT 300 and the full.  Any questions?  Fire away.

A few other issues.

This one is important: Since the AZT is still under construction and is a very long trail, there is an informal/unwritten rule that applies to racing the AZT.  It's always OK to follow AZT signs, even if they are leading you off the cue sheet or GPX file.  I've done everything I can to get the most recent data, but there may be more trail in places I don't know about.  If you find you are off "course" but still on the AZT, keep going!  It'll probably rejoin the route soon enough.  If you're lost, make your way back to the GPX track/cues as best you can.  This rule especially applies to the AZTR.  Not so much for the AZT 300, where the route is much more locked in and known.

I've already detailed the snow detour issue two posts up.  Any questions?

Finally, starting the race.  Right now the GPX track starts at the Mexican border on a 4x4 road.  The actual start of the AZT is up much higher, on singletrack, where an international border obelisk sits.  The problem is that bikes are not allowed on this 1.6 mile piece of trail.

I have started AZT thru-trips both ways.  Each has their pros/cons.  Any opinions on which you guys would prefer?  I have thought of making both options OK.  There won't be a huge difference in time.  (The 4x4 road version requires a ~6 mile out and back ride to the border).  For the hike option you leave your bike at the parking lot at Montezuma pass and hike down with nothing more than a water bottle or maybe a pack.  Pick up your bike and continue riding on to Parker Lake.

The idea was to keep the road ride from the start to Parker Lake a neutral start, meaning everyone rides together.  This doesn't has to be, and slower riders may fall off the pace as there is some climbing.  Thoughts? 

Finally, full AZT riders aren't obligated to hang out at the Parker Trailhead (start of the 300) until the 300 begins at 9am.  They can if they want, or just keep rolling on.  Hopefully the timing will be such that they get there fairly early.

[krefs]

I just ran across this report from some runners who did the Rim to Rim to Rim a few days ago and encountered deep snow on parts of the trail up to the North Rim. 

http://jeffvalliere.blogspot.com/2010/04/saturday-041710-grand-canyon-rrr.html

[AZTtripper]

That's a lot of snow to walk with the bike on your back. It's starting to look like being slow might just be an advantage. Looks like things are melting though, in some places melting pretty fast, if someone has the time to do a 20 plus day trip they may have a chance at riding most of the trail.

[AZTtripper]

Finally, starting the race.  Right now the GPX track starts at the Mexican border on a 4x4 road.  The actual start of the AZT is up much higher, on singletrack, where an international border obelisk sits.  The problem is that bikes are not allowed on this 1.6 mile piece of trail.

I have started AZT thru-trips both ways.  Each has their pros/cons.  Any opinions on which you guys would prefer?  I have thought of making both options OK.  There won't be a huge difference in time.  (The 4x4 road version requires a ~6 mile out and back ride to the border).  For the hike option you leave your bike at the parking lot at Montezuma pass and hike down with nothing more than a water bottle or maybe a pack.  Pick up your bike and continue riding on to Parker Lake.

To get an idea of the two options check out the first and fourth pics. http://www.bikepacking.net/forum/index.php/topic,611.0.html

Shot one is at the Start of the official AZT at the border monument, hike in the National Monument. You can see the valley where the bike route starts down the fence line over my left shoulder.

In shot 4 I am on the fence line road the one you would come down and go up, is on my left.

Both have merits one is more scenic the other lets you ride your bike from right on the line. 

[ScottM]

I just ran across this report from some runners who did the Rim to Rim to Rim a few days ago and encountered deep snow on parts of the trail up to the North Rim. 

http://jeffvalliere.blogspot.com/2010/04/saturday-041710-grand-canyon-rrr.html

Wow.  The photos from the rim (the road / parking lot) are telling.  No doubt there will be some melting, but anyone hiking the canyon should expect snow on the trail going up.  In 2005 there were a few minor patches, nothing to worry about, but this year the snowpack is obviously much deeper.  Wall creek was ~knee deep and not too bad.  Hopefully the guide line talked about in that writeup is still there.

[OurManInTheNorth]

1 - Is anyone coming through Flagstaff on the way to Tuscon on Thurs?  Could really do with a lift! Please pm me for my email or cell... Randy - I don't suppose you know anyone with a car we could borrow?

2 - How is shuttling to Sierra Vista working, would there be space for me from Tuscon and where and when should we meet?

3 - The start - I can't imagine not riding away from the border, so my vote would be the 6 mile out n back from the pass as Scott detailed. Any other thoughts from AZTRers?

4 - Also the start - I'm happy to run it as a neutral, all riding together to Parker Lake, and will probably hang around for the 9am AZT300 start if we make it there by then, obviously others can do whatever they wish!

5 - Detours - remind me what the detour rules/etiquette are?

6 - I'm sure I've forgotten stuff!

[KEE]

Matt and Brad are flying into Tucson from NC on Thursday around 1:00pm and would like to coordinate a ride to Sierra Vista and then to the put in.  The 6 mile out and back is fine and it would be great to all ride together to Parker Lake. 

[dream4est]

I agree- ride the out and back and group to Parker Lake. I will be at the Sierra Vista Motel 6 (1551 E. Fry) Thursday so call me if you want to hook up for a place to stay. I think Ian is meeting me there so the more the merrier.

Mark
720-635-7429

[jonesy792]

I can drive two people and two bikes to the start thursday night/friday morning

David
520-205-0275